Saga The claim that Episode I "wasn't needed".

I've read so many posts arguing that Episode I was unnecessary because it didn't add to the overall story. Saying that everything that happened could have been explained over a few sentences in Episode II.
I've long defended, and still will defend Episode I as a much needed entry in the saga.
Some of the issues people have with the ST are that there is very little on screen reason for Kylo to be dark, what happened after Episode VI?, why did Luke flee?, why weren't there a few political scenes in TFA to help catch us up to speed?.
All things Episode I provided for the next five entries.
You knew why Anakin was possessive and angry.....well most of us do, LOL. There are still a few that brush his PTSD aside

You know why Obi-Wan isn't fully on board with Anakin.

You know why the galaxy is in the state it's in because of Sidious revealing the Republic's corruption to the star systems and their representatives.

For me. Obi-Wan's talk about times before the Empire instantly bring me back to the silly moments in Episode I.

The ST greatly needed "Episode I" moments.
Sometimes if it wasn't for the mentions in the ST I'd almost think ROTJ was ignored, and TFA was a direct sequel to TESB. I know it's not!. Just feels like it with how disconnected the ST is.
So, the next time someone says,
"Episode I wasn't needed".
Have them take a look at the ST.

 

I don't know, I don't think that argument fits. You can't compare Episode I to the ST in such a way, because you give it a role it simply didn't have. TPM followed up on the OT, it didn't lay the groundwork for that trilogy so that the OT could focus on other stuff. Certain things could be done in the PT because of prior knowledge that came from the OT.

The ST basically did what the OT did (and the prequels in regard to what was going on in the prequels), which is throw people into the story and have them figure things out. We didn't know who the Empire or Rebels were in ANH or how they came to be. We had no idea about Vader beyond one line from Obi Wan, which was actually retconned by the next movie. We didn't know that Anakin was possessive and angry, because we hadn't heard about him as anything but Luke's dead father. We didn't know one thing about the state of the galaxy. All of that is stuff you find out over the course of the story, and there is nothing wrong with handling things that way.

The PT basically took the story that would happen in the future, referenced part of it, and showed development towards that state throughout the trilogy. That is something you can do when you tell a backstory, because the future is already set and known to the viewer. You can't do the same with sequels to a story, as sequels move into an open future that is unknown. There is a big difference between prequels and sequels in how their intrigue works, meaning you can't just apply one method to the other and demand that this is how every story should be handled.

Not showing why Kylo Ren was on the darkside wasn't an issue. That's what telling the story is for. We didn't know about why Anakin fell either, it required an entirely different set of stories ~20 years later before we were told what exactly happened. You can't say the PT gave the "necessary" explanation, when the PT didn't exist when the OT came out. The OT gave less explanation for Vader than the ST did for Kylo Ren, while the Emperor and Snoke both had no backstory at all, and it worked just fine. Clearly the lack of background for the villains didn't bother anyone during the OT. Same with Luke, we got told why he left, and then we were shown. That's all you need, that's why you tell the story.

The main thing that could have been portrayed more clearly in the ST, is the political situation. There just wasn't a whole lot there. Then again, I can't really see a way how that would have fit well into the opening as it happened. Maybe you could have restructured the whole movie, but the opening is the best part of the whole movie, and actually quite magical in parts, so that isn't as easy as it sounds. Still, this is indeed a point one can make, but not really in the way you tried to do here, because again, the situation for prequels and sequels is completely different. And you can't use newer movies to provide the necessary information to older movies either, because they obviously didn't exist when the older movies came out. If you wanted to make the point that certain things must be completely explained, then you need to look at the trilogies on their own, not use something that wasn't available at the time of release. You would need to lament the lack of information given by the OT in just the same way. In theory, they could tell the story of what happened between the OT and the ST in another set of movies in 20 years or so. Then this set of new movies would fit the role the PT played for the OT. Then, and only then, would you have a proper comparison in the way you are describing it here.

That being said, I don't see any reason why one would claim that Episode I wasn't needed. The only way the movie wasn't needed was in the way all of the movies weren't needed. Life would have went on just fine without any of them. None of that has anything to do with the ST though. And quite frankly, I find it rather odd when someone needs to put something down to elevate something different.

 

Episode 1 is not made for the masses, and that is why there was backlash in 1999. There are 2 types of SW fans: Lore and Fun fans. Group 1 prefer more Lore than Fun in their movies, as every detail just makes the Saga even more enriching. Group 2 prefer more fun than Lore and they don't need every detail in the movies as they just want to go for the ride. Episode 1 appeals to Group 1 while Episode 7 appeals to Group 2. That is why Episode 7 was better received, but it came at a cost in the long-run because the ST lacks that big picture story/world building. Episode 1 got more backlash in the short-term, but it setup the PT for the long-run as the overall story meshes better now because of the world building.

 

Not made for the masses at all.

 

I never said it wasn't marketed for the masses. Lucas the businessman is no dummy!

 

So it WAS made for the masses.

 

It was marketed to the masses, but made for the Lore fans.

 

I believe the legal term for that is “false advertising”.

 

Lucas made TPM for the same viewers he did the first trilogy: 12 year old children (ok, with stuff for younger members of the audience as well). He knew he'd lose a portion of the adult fanbase but did it anyway. The lore is there to support the story that's more political than the OT.

 

I think TPM was very much made for the masses and the evidence for that is in the BO.
TPM had the lowest opening of all three PT films and yet the highest total gross.
So it had very good legs which means it had wide appeal.
To be fair, in 1999 we had VHS and while DVD existed, it was not very big. And TPM did not get a home-video release until 2000. In 2002, DVD was quite big and AotC got a home-video release quicker than TPM.

I think the film itself also has several elements to make it child- and family friendly.
Anakin is a kid, comic relief side kick, "funny" battle droids. Maul was made to look cool and bad*** and given a double bladed lightsabre. There is fan service in the film.

As for comparing TPM to TFA. Both had hype and while TPM got mixed critical reaction, TFA was more positive. Both did really good at the BO. TPM had better legs but TFA did have quite good legs given the big opening.
TFA, left more unsaid, was more vague, had more resting on the follow up.
Ep VIII could elevate TFA but as we saw, also weaken it.
AotC followed TPM and the mixed reception was there and it dropped quite a bit at the BO.
TLJ had a big opening but then dropped faster. Suggesting that a lot of interest was still there but the film did not work for some.
RotS had a much better reception while RoS was bad. And the BO showed it. RotS made more than AotC while RoS dropped even further.
So I would say the PT got it right by having the best film last, that way the final impression is a good one and the rocky start is more easy to overlook.
The ST did the opposite and had a not good film at the end. Following a very divisive second film.
The PT stuck the landing, the ST did not.
Take RO, one of the reasons, I think, that it is regarded so highly is the third act. It is very good. And the audience has good final impression. Other films, like Alien R., had a pretty ok start but a terrible third act and so the audience has that mess as the final part.

To me, TLJ made such a mess that cleaning all of it up would be next to impossible but RoS did not fix a lot and instead added more of a mess.
Had RotS had the reception of TPM and AotC and the BO drop had continued, I think the PT as a whole would be looked at a bit differently.

As for TPM being "needed" or not.
It is a bit of an outlier in terms of SW films. At least the episodic ones. It has the longest time gap to the next film in the trilogy. The main character dies, another major character is recast and it feels in part like a prologue.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Obviously. It was always something of a corny space adventure for 10-year-old boys, and I think some of the more rabid fans neglect this.

I’d still argue that the original film is superior, though. Similarly, I’d argue that Toy Story is superior to Cars 2, even though they’re both children's films.

I should also add that I don’t hate The Phantom Menace. I don’t think it’s entirely successful, but it does have some great set pieces, I do like Qui-Gon, and I think it does successfully capture the tone of a Saturday matinee serial. (Attack of the Clones, on the other hand, sucks the big one.)

 

The real issue for me is that Lucasfilm couldn't get its story right about why Kylo Ren became evil. So, are you telling me that Disney and Lucasfilm plan to create a trilogy about how Ben Solo became Kylo Ren and the rise of the First Order? That would be a story that I could never be interested in.

 

It is a prolog really. The initial story is kicked of by the next film, with Episode I really masterfully sets the stage while trying to tell it’s own story. Jar Jar and Battle Droids aside, no matter what the critics say, it was a daring move to give the movies such a prolog. But that lead to THE CLONE WAR being told in 1 1/2 movies and then compensated by a TV show and that move I always consider the first tactical mistake that lead to the SW world of today, where they need to proof themselves every movie instead of getting the benefit of the doubt we have them for decades.

 

Ive always been amazed at the idea that TPM "isnt needed". If anything it's quite the opposite. As youtuber Nerdonymous said, the prequels are brilliant because they found a way to make themselves matter even though the originals could easily be their own story and there really was no need for a prequel trilogy or sequel trilogy. But Lucas found a way to make the prequels matter and become integral with the originals and most of that was established in TPM. TPM sets up not only the prequel trilogy but the overall 6 part saga as well. It adds an extra weight to the story told in the originals.

 

I think the entire PT wasn't needed.I never once thought after watching the OT that i want to know what happened before.I wanted to know what happens next.

 

Same here. Maybe one movie based on Vader's fall, but I'm not sure a whole trilogy was needed. Still, I enjoyed the PT.

 

Me too.

 

I don't think TESB or any of the ten movies that followed were really needed.

 

Now that's a unique point of view if i ever heard one.Cool. Imagine ANH as a standalone. And people writing tons of EU material around it never knowing for sure what happened before or after.I dig that.

 

I agree with IJjones41 and TESB is easily my favorite movie in the series. The original Star Wars was mostly a pretty self-contained story that could stand on its own quite well. Perhaps the only element of the movie that would feel odd without a sequel is that we never got to see Luke really use the lightsaber given to him aside from a brief training scene. From a storytelling perspective it's awkward to give a character a significant tool like that and then never have them use it.

 

Also, Vader's escape was quite the dangling plot thread. It was crystal clear to me that there was more to follow, even if we never got to see it. Thank the Maker we did.

 

Yeah when Vader escaped we all knew there would be a sequel.

 

May I ask why though?

It had a happy ending. The epilogue was 'and they all lived happily ever after'

for me watching the end of ROTJ was like watching Cinderella or Snow-White. I didn't need to know what happened next.

 

To TPM's credit, it does show an innocent side of Anakin's character and story, establishing him as this good-hearted slave kid who has to leave his mother. This makes him particularly vulnerable and human, contrasting what we know he will become, which is very much the point of the PT films. It probably wouldn't have worked as well if he was, say, Luke's age. And it's kind of the opposite with Padmé and her grave, no-nonsense Queen persona, which is interesting. There'd probably also be a lot more exposition to work into the story if we started with AotC or RotS.

That said, while I like TPM, I admit there's a lot in it that's not necessary. So maybe TPM is more of a prologue or filler adventure, but that's OK. A good filler adventure can outshine the more story-developing Episodes easily if done well. TPM still beats anything from the ST in my book.

 

I never will understand how EpI can be called unnecessary or filler. The movie is FULL of important stuff that sets up the whole saga: Anakins discovery and his history as a slave and with his mother, the relationship between him and Padme which will lead to Luke and Leia, Obi-Wan taking Anakin as his apprentice, Palps raise to power, massive world Building. If anything Episode I is the most important part of the whole Saga to understand whats going on.