Full Series The Clone Wars 7.07 - Dangerous Debt - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

The screenshot would be great in the old caption thread. It looks like Ahsoka is getting grilled.

 

Careful what you wish for...
https://boards.theforce.net/posts/56566995/

 

Spoiler

The episode delivered its big emotional punch right at the onset when we find out exactly why Trace and Rafa have a thing against the Jedi. It's strongly hinted that it was Master Luminara who visited the Martez sisters afterward with the "So sorry we decided to kill your parents to save the landing platform. But the Force works in mysterious ways. Have a nice day." spiel. Little wonder the Underworld people think of the Jedi as useless. Was this supposed to be their Great Trial? And who knows how far this pushed Barriss along her path of madness?

We'll have to wait until next week for the payoff when they finally learn what Ahsoka is but the stakes are significantly higher now. It's pretty likely that Ahsoka will offer herself as a Jedi bounty to the Pykes if they agree to let the sisters go.

The episode also continues the tug of war between Ahsoka's principles of helping people no matter what with actual reality on the ground (she didn't help the hungry beggar, and it came back to bite them.)

A few surprise references (Usra Wren as Bo Katan's companion, Ziro the Hutt and Schroedinger's bounty hunter Cad Bane, plus an allusion to Bo Katan and Ahsoka's "common enemy") bring home the theme that try as she might, Ahsoka can't wall her away from the bigger galaxy forever.

Other than that, this is a 22 minute prison break and chase episode would should at least quell some of the whining on reddit about the lack of action. Plotwise, our protagonists end up exactly where they started but with signs that the ice is starting to break between Ahsoka and Rafa. Though as she says, appearance can be deceiving...

 

The ep's only been out for a couple of hours but after reading a few reactions around the web it already feels like an eye-rollingly tired cliche to point out that the episode ends exactly where it began, as if the only thing that matters in a story is the location of the protagonists.

Of course anyone who's paying as much attention to character as they are to plot won't fail to notice that the (former?) Han Solo-like scoundrel Rafa ends the episode a changed woman, humbly taking responsibility for getting them all into this mess, and Ahsoka ends the episode with an even deeper and more personal appreciation for the negative effects The Jedi Way can have on the very people they're effectively sworn to protect.

 

I think it's fitting that all the Force tricks and badassery that Ahsoka was trained to do ... got her nowhere in terms of getting out of prison.

It's an apt metaphor for the Clone Wars (the in-universe war, not the show) that so many of the complainers want to see more of. Ultimately, these battles represent the Jedi running in an endless loop.
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Heh, I often find myself thinking the same thing whenever I see dead people in Star Wars. I often imagine a scene where Barriss or Ahsoka is facing Obi-Wan and Yoda among all the dead Jedi in the Temple afer Order 66 and says "Let me guess... The Force works in mysterious ways? Somebody failed their great trial? What's your excuse this time?"

If she was already on the path and knew about this it certainly didn't help.

Fat chance of that.

Too bad that the only point of that brief escape (plot-wise) was to get Ahsoka noticed by the Mandos. Everything else could have been achieved without the action but it would just have been incredibly boring.

Her badassery did help Ahsoka get out of prison, just not this time.

Huh, I didn't see it that way but... That's a nice way of looking at it. I can't be sure this was intended by Filoni but it's a nice way to give the episode more purpose than it has.

 

I thought it was another fun episode. It was certainly an interesting revelation to learn what happened to the Martinez sister's parents. I'd like to rewatch that Zero escape episode to visualize the details of how they described what happened. That being said, I don't particularly like that that was the grudge they held against the Jedi. I mean it was told as if the sisters already accepted it was an accident, right? I guess it was planned to have some tie-in to a familiar event from a previous TCW episode that happened on Coruscant.

I know it sounds silly, but I get a kick out of the the sneaky Force abilities Ahsoka uses behind their backs. I know it's strange the sisters haven't figured it out yet, but I guess when you're a Jedi you're good at hiding it depending on the situation. And by the way, I guess this answers the question from the previous episode as to why/how the sisters agreed to Ahsoka using the mind trick on the Pykes. Obviously she didn't tell them she was going to use it; she probably just convinced them that she has a very good power of persuasion.

The coming episodes look particularly promising; with a familiar adversary coming into the fray. So that's how they meet.

 

I LOVED this episode. This arc is just getting better and better. Love that shade towards Luminara and the jedi order. This episode perfectly showed how corrupt the jedi are. The jedi will literally kill people, blame it on the will of the force, and go on their way. It's the equivalent of somebody close to you dying and another person saying they'll pray for you. Also nice to see that Trace actually can fight for her life, if only a little bit.

Also who was it again that theorized that Trace and Raffa's parents were killed? I gotta apologize to them cause they were absolutely right lol

 

It wasn't the accident, it was the dismissive way that the Jedi dealt with the aftermath. They're just completely disconnected with the normal citizens of the Republic. The ones that don't have midichlorians in their blood and can't take comfort in the "Luminous beings we are, not this crude flesh - mourn them do not, miss them do not - one with the Force they are" hokum. The Jedi are not paying attention to the world around them - and that's how Chancellor Sidious was able to publically declare them enemies of the state to be hunted down ... and to thunderous applause.

 

To be fair Luminara might be one of the most arrogant and out of touch jedi. I think if it were Yoda for example he would have given them words of wisdom and maybe set them on a different path then just dismiss them.

 

Very enjoyable episode. I really liked the development of Trace and Rafa, tying their backstory into the Jedi like that was clever and just fuels Ahsoka's disillusionment. I like how the sisters sort of represent different possible versions of Ahsoka. Trace is the younger more naive version we used to know and Rafa is a possible future version if she lets her disappointment and sadness overtake her. And yeah the action was great and the Mandalorian surprise was very nice.

 

I watched the new episode with my brother and he said the exact same thing. After she told Anakin to just let go when Ahsoka was presumed dead, and Barriss' eventual fall she does seem very out of touch when it comes to emotions, more so than many other jedi I've seen.

 

"You may be cut out for this life. but I'm not sure about Trace"

She just killed like 30 people in cold blood, it looks like she can handle it lol

 

Cold blood depends on your view of whole situation. They are captured and being tortured...so I would put it in the self defense column.

I did enjoy the action of the episode...but think this arc should be referred to as '3 idiots making bad decisions'

Rafa for taking the deal with the Pykes...but more importantly NOT telling her sister so she could make an informed decision about participating.
Ahsoka for her holier than thou 'spice is bad, mmmkay...' attitude and lecture the sisters about what they are doing
Trace for dumping the spice.

Best case for the situation they are in when they find out about the deal Rafa made would be to just make the delivery, get paid, and get out. But that would have denied us the action and drama.

 

Overall a good episode, the dialogue during the jail cell scenes at the start felt pretty unnatural to me IMO but that's my only major complaint.

Great action, shockingly brutal, makes me even more excited for the Siege of Mandalore knowing nothing is getting toned down. Another solid 8/10 episode for me

 

Of course, I'm mainly just joking around.

 

So i've yet again missed some episode reviews so I'll give my opinions on episode 5-7 together.

+I love all of the character development for Ahsoka, she's getting some important lessons on how other people see the Jedi and the Republic which I think she can relate too on some aspects.
+I actually like the Martez sisters a lot, I like their contrasting personalities and also their one big similarity: their naivety. Their backstory is compelling and I can see how they ended up in this life. It's also very nice to see things from a regular civilian POV.
+I love the Pykes so having an arc so focused on them is great
+It was really cool seeing the Nite Owls again, Bo-Katan sounds just like she always has and it's such a nice nod to Rebels to have Ursa Wren appear as well.
+It was really cool that they tied the Martez sisters backstory to Hostage Crisis
+The action so far has been really great
+Seeing Kessel again was great, the spice mines looked just like they did in SOLO and it was really interesting seeing the nice side of Kessel and learning about the Yaruba family.
+The character interaction and writing has been really great this season so far, especially in this arc.
+The scene between Ahsoka and Anakin sensing eachother was so great, it's tied with the Anakin-Padme scene from A Distant Echo for my favorite scene this season so far
+Nice seeing Yularen again

I'll give Gone with a Trace 8/10, Deal no deal 8/10 and Dangerous Debt a 9/10

 

I do get your point though..she is capable of handling herself.

I do wish we could get a story that has them taking a high risk job, getting paid, and being able to clear their debt to the Pykes.

 

Well that's the Jedi in her talking. Of course the fallacy is that the Jedi are too preoccupied with the war to give a damn about the dangerous spice trades anyway.

One thing I'd need a memory jog of was why the Mandalorians would consider the Pykes an enemy; unless it was just Bo suggesting they're an enemy because they teamed up with Maul to take over Mandalore.

 

And she has to realize she is not in the Order anymore and keep certain opinions to herself.

And I am thinking Bo was referring to Maul.

 

Bo-Katan and Ursa Wren?

The Pyke's are part of Maul's Shadow Collective.

 

Right off the bat, I have to say this is the weakest episode of the arc.

Pros:
Great visuals as always.
Very good action scenes.
Ahsoka getting knocked around gives a sense that she's not entirely comfortable with strictly hand-to-hand combat; and missing her lightsabers.
Ahsoka using her Force powers to kill people in the manner that she does is startling.
Bo-Katan appearance which will tie-in to SoM.

Cons:
Rafa narration/exposition of Ziro etc. was very clunky and seemed contrived for sake of plot.
Very hard to believe a major crime syndicate would re-imprison the three instead of just executing them, given the trouble they've caused.

We'll see if this episode works better in the overall arc.

 

Well that's pretty much where I was getting at. Bo was essentially in league with them until Maul killed her sister.

 

I really liked this episode it’s my am favorite from season seven so far 8/10

I liked hearing the sisters backstory and everything and the reference to Ziro and Cad Bane.Do you think the Jedi she mentioned was Bariss Offee?

I think the next episode will have the mandalorians infiltrate the prison to save one of their own and find Ahsoka there and ask how a Jedi got herself locked up.The sisters will laugh thinking she’s joking but then get mad when they realize she’s telling the truth especially Trace.Then Ahsoka will ask Bo Katan to let her out and she says only if she tells the Jedi about her pkanet is in champs with Maul returning.Ahsoka says how she’s no longer a Jedi and can’t go back there.Bo Katan says how that’s too bad and walks off.Ahsoka tells her to wait and that she will help her fight her war instead and Bo Katan agrees and they break out.When they get to Coruscant Ahsoka says goodbye and that she will be back for her bike after the war.She also apologizes for keeping her secret and the sisters understand.Ahsoka then leaves with Bo Katan