Full Series The Clone Wars 7.08 - Together Again- Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Narratively it's the same thing whether Maul is an underling, is getting played or is doing his own thing after going free. I think Maul is doing some of his own scheming either way. It's all part of the plan. Without SoD it's like any of the other countless gaps in TCW left to the imagination. We'll find out soon enough if Matt is right.

 

I thought the context of that Palpatine line was simply setup for Son of Dathomir, to use Maul as bait to lure out and kill Talzin, and additionally to break up Maul's influence with the Shadow Collective. That usefulness ended with SoD and Talzin's demise, after which Maul is a free man again.

 

Very disappointed that this arc was chosen to be one of the final 12 episodes of the entire series. There was such a dropoff in comparison to the Bad Batch that I'm beginning to suspect the only reason I found that arc good was because it was already finished. Doesn't give me high hopes for the Siege of Mandalore, especially with their retconning as pointed out by @The Shadow Emperor.

Totally agree. Wasn't a huge fan of the first episode, but I really liked the second one and it seemed the arc just had a rocky start. The third episode solidified that it was in fact the second that was the odd one out.

 

Sure, but my point is that those who have read SoD are only a fraction of the total audience of the show, and Maul's current situation plays very differently depending on whether you're part of that fraction who has read SoD or part of the fraction who hasn't.

There will have been a ton of old school folks who just never read any of the comics, and then you have the newer Disney+ folks who very likely have no idea SoD even exists.

 

This arc has to be before The Lawless, which means the Ashoka-Fugitive arc was before The Lawless.

 

I've loved this arc for what it is. A nice character exploration, a change of pace.

But I've felt this in other series in their final seasons before. Episodes are running out, and you are wondering how does this tie up the story for a satisfying finish.

 

I agree the timeline is messed up a little.

I was wondering that why Dave Filoni decided to do the Season 7 again when it was cancelled, and when he previously said he doesn't want to do it since he has other TV shows to do now, but it was weird that when you see these developments;

This is my little theory that why the timeline is a mess right now;

Spoiler

- Darth Maul Solo movie cameo showed up at 25 May 2018,
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- Theclonewars saved showed up at 19 July 2018,
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- Filoni mentioned about Ray Park's Mo-cap appearance in TCW Season 7, who also appeared in Solo movie.

I also remember Filoni says in 2016 that Maul was locked up in Malachor for years, if that was true, Maul could never rule the Crimson Dawn until the Solo story, where it past 9 years since the RotS, between Solo and Rebels, there are 5 or 6 years, so by saying ''years'' I assume that he was at least there for 4 or 5 years, and Maul should go to Malachor only 1 year after Solo, when he said that specifically he has plans in Dathomir is a low possibility. So it means that Maul wasn't actually locked up in Malachor for years, that was Filoni's original idea, but that should change after Solo appearance.

Sam Witwer also said in an interview that the Solo movie crew didn't know that Maul actually lost his original lightsaber from the Phantom Menace, so they were going to use Maul's first lightsaber in the Solo movie, but then Witwer informed them that Maul either has the darksaber or the inquisitor lightsaber at that point of time, so this is a clue that the Solo movie crew didn't actually ask the Clone Wars producers and writers, or Filoni about Maul's Solo appearance in 2018. They probably only get the permission from the Disney, as if ''can we use Maul or not?'' but not from the Clone Wars animation crew.

It looks like to me that Filoni didn't want anyone to retcon Maul's final story in the Clone Wars after seeing the Solo movie, or the story between the Clone Wars and Solo, and that's why he accepted to do the TCW Season 7 again so he could be %100 sure that no one could change that story, and so he could shoehorn the Crimson Dawn into the Clone Wars, or add the Crimson Dawn into the Clone Wars so the people wouldn't be confused about why no one talked about the Crimson Dawn in the Clone Wars. Because we know that Crimson Dawn was first mentioned in the Solo movie, never mentioned in the Clone Wars or any other media, why hurry up to mention that name in first appearance of Maul's in the Season 7? This can't be a coincidence.

This is also why I think the timeline is a little messed up because they changed Maul's final original Clone Wars story, I think Maul was going to end up with losing everything at the end of the Clone Wars, he wasn't going to control the crime syndicates such as Crimson Dawn. He was going to search Malachor and he was end up locking himself there for years, because the Inquisitors were not really sure that Maul was alive or not in the Rebels as well; ''So the rumors are true, Darth Maul lives?'', the Inquisitors were very active in the timeline between RotS and Solo, so I assume that they would certainly know Maul was alive if he was actually ruling a crime syndicate at that point of time. So this is why I think that Solo movie cameo has changed everything for Filoni and the Clone Wars animation crew, and that's why I think he first decided to do the Season 7 again, and then he changed Maul's final original Clone Wars story where Maul ends up still ruling the Crimson Dawn instead of losing everything and escaping to Malachor directly.

Btw, did Maul sense Ahsoka through a hologram? It looked like he almost caught her.

 

that certainly was weird. No precedent for it, but it improves the tension I guess.

 

I didn’t notice any drop off in quality. Quite the opposite. Whatever its deficiencies (and it definitely has those), the Ahsoka arc was ten times more interesting than the Bad Batch arc. And this season so far is very consistent with past seasons - meaning, that it’s inconsistent. Filoni has always been hit or miss, and that hasn’t changed with this season.

 

What a load of baloney!

Eps 3 and 4 were weak. There wasn’t enough plot for 4 episodes. So many captures and escapes. The goal seemed to be to show the conflict within Ahsoka, but by the end, she hadn’t got anywhere with it, she just decides on a whim really to go off with the Mandos.

Surely this arc could have been condensed to 2 episodes and the other 2 used to gradually put the Ahsoka, Mando and Maul pieces back on the chess board as it were!

Maybe it would have worked better if Bo had met Ahsoka in episode 2 and asked her to join them, Ahsoka is all “it’s not my fight anymore” but then spending time with the sisters makes her realise she still has her part to play.

Maul and the Mandos felt crowbarred in. “Mandalore... what’s Maul doing there?” felt cheap.

What is up with two aesthetic things:

All of the intros this season have had clips laid over the top that fade in and out, that are so short you can barely parse what’s going on. Totally unnecessary! It’s as if Disney added them after the episodes were finished, really shoddy.

And it seems like there’s a mandate that every episode must have a comedic interlude with jaunty music. This time it was the sisters dealing with the Quadinaros. Out of step tonally with the rest of the episode.

 

Respectfully disagree. I thought The Clone Wars was extremely consistently great beginning with the Umbara arc, outside of the S5 droid arc. Even so, I would prefer that the penultimate arc be as good as possible.

 

Disney+ subscribers grifted for the eighth week in a row.

 

I mean, I think most of that is right -- we ended up with a really odd arc for Maul after TCW, with almost two separate timelines being developed after he's discarded by Palpatine. Going back to being a crime lord, as seen in Solo, which is... possible on its own, but the strong implication on both other ends of that, that his crime empire fell apart in SoD, and years later he seems to have been totally on his own, broken and without real resources for years in Rebels.

It seems like they're now having to honor the general *trajectory* of the new combined arc by glossing over the fact that his criminal resources totally dissolve and then somehow re-coalesce, before he loses it all *again*, badly, in some untold post-Solo but well before Rebels story, and goes back to Force-focused obsessions about stuff that happened way before all that. The problem is, that's all so much cleaner without the SoD events, if he's still in charge of the syndicates through and after the Siege of Mandalore. That one little detail just makes it seem like he's toggling back and forth between being in power and broken over and over again, and vacillating between being master manipulator and a vengeance-obsessed nutjob at the same time. Basically it seems like the job of cleaning up the overall shape of his arc into something that makes sense is just going to cause some collateral damage to the timeline.

 

While they surely could've done a better job with their storytelling and chronological ordering as its kinda confusing to downright sloppy, I don't think the medium and limited amount of time and episodes allowed for it to happen. But that is kinda different issue. I also do not think just because some people did not read the comics, it somehow invalidates the storyline, its like people who do not read the Visual Dictionaries, novels and comics that expand and/ ore are set inbetween the movies or even don't watch TCW or the other animated series. That makes no sense to me. I don't see any major retcons occurring for SOD, since these episodes appear to come somewhere inbetween and after SOD occurs SOD would've occured shortly after the events of The Lawless anyway.

Ventress' arc in Dark Discple also takes place within SOD, its between it. So yeah its pretty important and connected to it - even Marg Krim and Fife , and Pykes vs Black Sun ect. Point is, its important not to ignore or rework SOD to fit an imaginary narrative which is not even hinted at in what just watched. Lucasfilm tells their stories also in novel and comic book form, and they like going back and fourth in the time and often use various mediums to tell their stories - it does not mean its less important or somehow irrelevant just because its not live action or animated.

Moreover am pretty sure most people that post on this forum know SOD exists, and most fans of the TCW would've read the comic by now or atleast the Wookiepedia.

@Erkan12

Of course Maul sensed her. He just did not care about the Pykes at all, they were fouling up and had to pay.

 

Nothing really all that special for me with this longer than needed arc.

Three episodes would have been more than sufficient to do all needed to show Ahsoka's post Jedi Order life and the internal struggle with her identity no longer as a Jedi.

Glad to finally be able to move on and see the final arc.

 

I don't see how my imaginary narrative is that off since I said zero about it. What I said was basically Dark Disciple was not adapted into season 7 because Ventress is not as relevant to Anakin's fall, it's simple as that. In TCW it all connects back to Anakin and narratively her story is complete enough for him. I know SoD exists and I know plenty of spoilers. I also don't think it takes a genius to figure out how Maul got back to Mandalore. Will it really break the bias I have toward Palpatine being the greatest genius ever in the GFFA? I hope SoD does when I read it. Don't twist what's in my post because I never said I thought SoD was lame and should be retconned out of existence. That's not what a lame filter is.

I'm not saying people shouldn't bother reading comics, books, etc. I never said they were less important. I explained I didn't read it because yeah without the show I was angry for a while, lost interest, and my interest in Star Wars as a whole did not return until January. I used to label myself a casual fan but such labels are childish. My personal interests come and go. I bought the comic and the Dark Disciple novel intending to read them before the finale. But, after spending time in both our own "Arcs that never were" thread, on Reddit, and watching people whine on Youtube decided to hold off because of all the moaning about what we are getting in season 7 and what we aren't. I think it works to my advantage to not get hung up over that stuff and just enjoy season 7.

TCW also does not have a great track record with not contradicting stuff. I am choosing not to read it precisely because I'm worried I'd develop a bias that could potentially ruin SoM. I'll come back to that content after season 7 is over. Your acting elitist calling me a "lesser fan" basically is not encouraging me. I won't pretend to know enough to debate the contents of the comic. So long as the SoD and Dark Disciple adhere to TCW's snapshot style storytelling where there have always been gaps and contradictions to figure out there won't be a problem with fitting them into canon anyways. Personally I still weave the amazing Genndy Clone Wars in my personal canon with TCW.

 

I think concerns regarding the timeline and Maul's continuity between TCW, Solo, Rebels and SoD are valid. It's worth remembering the Lucasfilm Story Group was created SPECIFICALLY to ensure all forms of the Star Wars medium fit together into one harmonious and free flowing unit.

So if we now have situations where a new story line or character arc in one format contradicts something that's been established previously in another format, then that's a problem because it shouldn't happen - particularly if BOTH sources were produced post 2012 when the Story Group came into existence.

As for this Ahsoka arc, well I think you can take it or leave it, but I agree with everyone else three episodes would've been sufficient.

 

The Pykes don't need make money by ruining lives with drugs, extortion, torture, or murder.

They just need to buy up all the beloved IPs, make the latest revived seasons exclusive to their streaming service, hype underwhelming episodes with trailers, then charge a monthly fee.

Criminal genius!

 

Hah, maybe the Pikes would have realized the low key genius in rebooting Chip n Dale Rescue Rangers and Gummi Bears by now.

 

3/10. I don't see myself revisiting this arc, should I ever bother to revisit anything in this franchise that's done little more than disappoint me since the Disney buyout. What could have been a fun, self-contained story about Ahsoka and these two girls utterly fell apart the moment they decided to dangle the shiny keys of LOOK SIEGE OF MANDALORE DARTH MAUL!!!!! in front of the audience, and I say this as a huge fan of the horny headed maniac in question. (And as others have pointed out, Maul being on Mandalore isn't a huge revelation despite the show acting like it is. Maul's capture by Sidious wasn't exactly public knowledge, was it?) The resolution between Ahsoka and the sisters felt like such a hasty wrap up because we just had to have our SoM ending stinger. Let a self-contained story be a self-contained story, dammit! Bo-Katan and Ahsoka's meeting could've easily taken place at the beginning of the next episode. And while I'm on the topic, who knows how many potentially awesome standalone stories they left on the cutting room floor because clearly the only thing that mattered to them was building up to the Arc To End All Arcs? cough cough bounty hunter arc cough cough.

And my god, that Crimson Dawn reference? I know this word gets thrown around a lot on this board, but that right there is the very definition of shoehorning. First of all, Maul has no goddamn reason to be personally micromanaging things like a tiny 30,000 credit shipment in the first place. He has much bigger fish to fry, and has no business setting up more criminal organizations when he can barely manage the conglomerate he already has! In fact that's exactly what happens in SoD: the whole arc he's consumed by his hatred for Sidious and shows little concern for keeping his men in line which comes to bite him in the ass when they all turn tail and run when the going gets tough. @FiveFireRings hit the nail on the head. Maul's trajectory over the course of TCW is rising to power and then being brutally crushed when he bites off more than he can chew. As Sidious says, Maul's future was erased during his defeat on Dathomir, and in Siege of Mandalore he loses his last tenuous hold on galactic affairs. Namedropping Crimson Dawn this early nullifies that because we know it and Maul's alliance with the Pykes survives well into the Dark Times. It's just bad storytelling borne by an age where we gotta have our OMG lore, references, connectivity! moments for fans to nerd out over even when it doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

The only thing i didnt like was how Filoni kinda writes characters into being able to get out of whatever situation. and that takes something away for me. But i still really loved the episode. I love Ahsoka. and I really like Trace and Raffa. Sorry if I'm misspelling their names. We are going to get to see this character later on in her life and in live action soon so I appreciate episodes like this where we get to dig deeper into what happened after she left the Jedi.

 

I can usually suspend my disbelief enough to not mind when heroes get through situations they really shouldn't have, but the Pykes have had dozens of opportunities to kill them and kept taking them alive.

How the Pykes manage to stay in business is beyond me.
They really should send one or two of their own whenever someone cuts a "we'll go get your spice, trust me" deals. Granted, most people that did that wouldn't be stupid enough to come back.

Spoiler

Was really hoping for more of a Mandp ex Machina to bust them out and making the Mandos be the ones to blow up the factories