Full Series The Clone Wars 7.10 - The Phantom Apprentice - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

I am glad they acknowledged Maul was not at his best during the fight due to mental restrictions; whereas Ashoka was amped up. In a regular fight Maul would beat Ashoka.

Also if Filoni said there is a chance Maul and Ashoka could have beaten Sidious then we have to believe it to be true. I would put more put more faith in an experienced and smart fighter like Ashoka as a partner than a brute like Savage Oppress who at most can only make his enemies stumble with powerful strikes. That worked against Dooku but not against Sidious. Also Maul was completely unprepared and overwhelmed when Sidious unexpectedly showed up to fight him. If Maul can mentally prepare a confrontation with him I am sure he would do better.

 

A couple of points in connection with comments thus far in this thread:

1. There has been the idea floated that maybe Rex gets knocked out and it is possible thinking back to the season 7 trailer but in Rebels, he said he never turned on his Jedi. So I wonder if he will struggle with the command and his highly developed moral code and become useless when order 66 occurs by fighting with all his strength to not do it.

2. I would not be surprised to see an Ahsoka-Maul team up to escape when order 66 goes off - let's face it, they will be on a ship full of clones and Maul will DEFINITELY be a target as well. If they do team up, they could obviously take that ship from the clones, ala what Jaro Tapal tried to do (sort of) in Fallen Order. Those two together, they could actually do it.

3. The talk of power levels doesn't really bother me, if you go into any fight and already know the outcome based on power levels, it is kind of boring isn't it? Plus, Ahsoka proved throughout the show, she was pretty resourceful in any given hopeless situation.

 

Fine. Ill behave myself.

 

In the end, Palpatine won against Yoda because, a) he still managed to keep the high ground, b) he was bigger and heavier than Yoda. It wasn't the lightning that did Yoda in, it was the fall.

Let's not forget that Maul is also desperate for companionship. He will take anyone to whom he can relate who's showing promise as a Force wielder because he just wants that companionship that he had with Savage back. It was true for Ezra, it's still true for Ahsoka.

How do you know this fight was moccaped by real people ? A lot less one-handed grips on the double-bladed lightsaber, because that prop is a staff and needs to be wielded like one. The one-handed grip is something that always bothered me on TCW and Rebels.

 

I agree basically no one other than Yoda could actually match with Sidious, but these gifs are from the beginning when maul wasn't expecting an attack from sidious, and at the end, after losing the lightsaber duel, when he was already weakened.

 

The behind the scenes video of the mocap fight starts around the 1:20 mark.

 

And yet, you think the Mandalorian is awesome too. And that show didn’t exist before Disney’s Lucasfilm. But...no credit for that either?

At some point, you have to realize that while you don’t like the ST (I don’t either), Disney’s Lucasfilm is perfectly capable of making things you like. A lot.

 

Although it does bear noting that they didn't use the mocap data itself. Per the animation team, they used it more as a reference material. Still incredibly impressive.

 

In this deleted scene Maul is able to block Sidious lightning with his lightsaber and force pin him against a wall while disarming him. It's something we only saw Yoda do against Sidious.



Now it wasn't animated but because we didn't see the full fight in the throne room we can assume that this is what was supposed to happen canonically; as it flowed perfectly with the last saber lock that was animated during the throne room portion of the fight (at 1:20) and Maul fighting alone with Sidious in the tunnel (2:45).

Maul is able to show some trouble for Sidious with the force (something we only saw Yoda do) and is able to match him with sabers for a little while (Jedi Masters like Kit Fisto got killed instantly). With proper training and experience Maul could have eventually matched Sidious (he was also supposed to become stronger than Talzin; who was a peer of Sidious).

Plus if that deleted scene was supposed to be completely non-canonical it wouldn't even be available as a bonus feature.

 

That question was meant to be rhetorical, but re-reading it, I can see how that didn't come out well.

 

...What?

 

Why would I be talking about The Mandalorian in a Clone Wars subforum and topic? Or do I have to praise Disney for something they did that I liked, in a thread focused on something entirely different? I fail to see your point.

At some point you might have to realize that the negatives in the Disney era outweigh the positive ones for me. It will take a lot of time before that changes, if it ever does.

In an alternate reality where Lucas has not sold the rights (or has a term in which he alone can decide where the story will go) we have gotten 3 awesome sequels, a Star Wars Underworld live action TV show, a dozen more Clone Wars episodes, and possibly more. I would sacrifice Rogue One, Solo and The Mandalorian for these things. You probably wouldn't. But I don't have to feel the same.

Yes, Disney is capable of making things I like, I never said otherwise. But they are also capable of making (many) things that I don't like at all. Lucas only satisfies only one of those two statements. I'm gonna go with Disney bad.

 

Mod Edit: Nope.That implies you don’t like anything that’s been done under their ownership.

 

I can't help but think what would've happened had Obi Wan and Anakin came to Mandalore with Ahsoka.Or even just Anakin and Ahsoka.I feel Obi Wan would've died in the battle of Corucsant without Anakins support.

 

Mod Edit: No baiting.

 

Off topic

 

Just dropping by to say that seeing the final fight with Maul and Ahsoka...TCW has wowed me with animation prowess before, but this one really tops it. It's probably been said, but the lighting, atmosphere, backgrounds...there really isn't another CG series of this type I can think of to match it. If this is the end, kudos for going out on such a high note!

 

All I keep thinking is, "Geez, Maul. All you had to do was slice that I-beam." I know, I know. Reasons.

 

Its the story of Star Wars though isn't it?

All Anakin had to do was stay put.
All Ahsoka had to do was believe Maul (yes, yes very simplistic)
All Obi-Wan had to do was believe Dooku
All Fives had to do was communicate with Rex and Anakin earlier
All the Jedi had to do was actually do something against all the obvious evidence in front of them
All Rey had to do was realise she couldn't do anything wrong
All Ahsoka had to do was strike down Vader when she had her chance
All the Jedi who went down like punks in order 66 had to do was pull a Krell and actually put up a fight and escape
All the three Jedi had to do alongside Windu was actually be ready
and so on

 

10/10 truly excellent episode. No complaints.

 

I've been thinking about this for the last week or so, and all the things people have said about it. And I'd like to offer a comparison. The reason Maul didn't think of that is this: He's not us.

It's very easy to watch or read anything and roll ones eyes or gasp in disbelief when a character misses the very very obvious because it's easy to do that when watching or reading just about anything from an objective third party point of view. I've seen sports fans get angry that some player missed what was, to them, an obvious opportunity for advancement, even though the viewer has the clear benefit of being able to see the entire field from a good distance away or on TV, rather than being down in the thick of it. Game shows are another great example. Sooner or later, people who watch game shows (myself included) inevitably groan in disgust when a constant does something stupid, make an obviously wrong choice, etc, etc. Some who have gone on to try being on a game show themselves usually come back and say how way different it is between watching at home, and actually being there under the studio lights with the audience and the pressure and the stress. It's easier to screw up than people think.

I suppose it's tempting to say, yeah well Maul's a well trained expert duelist, so he shouldn't have missed that. Perhaps. I would offer that even experts can make mistakes especially in high stress situations.

 

I would say that's PIS, (Plot-Induced Stupidity) , because plot demands that Ahsoka should live one way or another, just like Obi-Wan needed to live in Phantom Menace, Kanan needed to live in Rebels. No one could kill them no matter who; Vader, Dooku, Sidious etc. , that's why Obi-Wan survived Dooku twice even after losing to Dooku twice. And Kanan survived a fight with Vader, even Force pushed him under the AT-DP vehicle. Ahsoka survived against Sidious in the worlds between worlds.

But this happened so many times with Maul you can say it could be CIS (Character-induced stupidity), which is why I didn't like that repetition, especially when we know and the writer/the director himself of the episode showed us that how smart Maul really is.