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Clone Wars The Clone Wars 7.12 - Victory and Death (SERIES FINALE!) - Discussion Thread (Spoilers Allowed)

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Todd the Jedi , May 2, 2020.

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Grade the Episode

Poll closed May 18, 2020.
  1. 10

    59.3%
  2. 9

    20.7%
  3. 8

    11.4%
  4. 7

    2.9%
  5. 6

    0.7%
  6. 5

    2.9%
  7. 4

    1.4%
  8. 3

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. 2

    0.7%
  10. 1

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    But the end all/be all is that Yoda is the only one who'd have the decency to call her Padawan during the holo transmission on Mandalore. Didn't seem like anyone else was so willing to jump in and defend her against Windu's berating CITIZEN statement. Maybe if Plo Koon was there it might've been different, but we'll never know.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  2. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    She literally called herself that right in front of Mace before he said that.

    They are Jedi Masters. They are not perfect, but they are good people who certainly have the best interests of the galaxy at heart. In specific, Plo Koon and Shaak Ti demonstrated their immense compassion by caring for the clones under their command throughout the war. We also see Obi-Wan's compassion numerous times. Saesse Tiin even compliments Ahsoka for her resilience during the events of The Wrong Jedi. And Mace Windu himself freed an entire planet from CIS captivity in Season 1, and risked his own life to disable the Anaxes bomb in Season 7.
    There was no snark from Master Windu whatsoever. He clearly believed what he was saying. And I think it's wrong to assume Mace wanted Ahsoka to get anywhere near being legally executed.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  3. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Who is arguing that? The point is that Windu and the others came to the conclusion that it was best that Ahsoka be removed from the Order only after getting the message from Tarkin about it being the Republic's matter and outside the Jedi's jurisdiction. No, he wasn't sending her to her death directly; but he was throwing her at the mercy of those who would be biased against Jedi. But this was just her "great trial", as she's obliged to accept. Remember Windu was the one who laid it out on Anakin in ROTS that even though he was invited to sit among the Council, he wouldn't be given the rank of Master. I'm sure Dave Filoni had that in mind when he considered the dialogue for the ending of The Wrong Jedi.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  4. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Executed no. But make no mistake Mace is complicit in the fall of the Republic, Ahsoka distrust for the Council and ultimately her retroactive reactions to withholding information and his actions could’ve prevented a lot of the distrust. Because after all he was the Master of the Order (I.e in charge of the Council ultimately he could’ve either stopped the trial or as what happened allow it to proceed. His actions and words have weight & impact)

    1. Ahsoka trial brought out the bad side within the Jedi Council, and Mace is at the center of that as his actions are very judgmental towards Ahsoka and as such and resulted in no one on the Council on her side, this was after she had dedicated herself to the Order only to have a video be enough for Windu and the Council to remove her from the Order.

    2. In season 7 the hologram conference is very cryptic Mace and Obi-Wan discuss Grievous and when Ahsoka tells Mace that the war was nearing its end Mace then referred to Palpatine and how it depended on him. But then goes on to say

    “I am sorry citizen, these matters must be discussed by the council.“

    Not only was this patronizing to Ahsoka but also probably reaffirmed her distrust in the Order and assured her that leaving the Order was right and this was after (the Grand Master) of the Order said

    “More to say you have ....” - Yoda to Ahsoka

    Mace’s continual contempt towards Ahsoka not only assisted in the Jedi downfall put probably stopped her from telling the Council more about her Darth Maul revelations.

     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  5. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I think this is a misuse of the word “complicit,” which implies actions taken deliberately to weaken the Republic. Mace did not do that. In fact, had the Council acted quicker on his suspicions of Palpatine, they might have saved the Republic from his tyranny. The fact that he is a little contemptuous and distrustful of Anakin and Ashoka is unfortunate, as that contributed to the poor decisions of both, but complicity is going too far.
     
  6. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Refresh my memory because I'm not following; what was Ahsoka's poor decision again?
     
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  7. Darth Wookiee

    Darth Wookiee Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Hmmm. He also said in that interview he always wanted the finale to be around the same time as ROTS though (1:40).
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  8. TheSilentInfluence

    TheSilentInfluence Outspoken and Enraged Mod of SWTV and SWC star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 15, 2014
    @Ahsoka's Tano

    Knock off the argument. I understand you want to discuss Ahsoka, but the arguing about her and what her decisions are is not going to go well. I really don't want to have to lock this thread again.[/USER]
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  9. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Feige's #1 Fan and Ryan Church Aficionado star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Not informing the Jedi Council about what Maul told her (a decision that has nearly genocidal implications - though I don’t blame her). I totally understand why she didn’t (and agree with the script on that point), but I think it was objectively not the right decision to withhold that info. I’m quite sure her character, based on my understanding of her, would absolutely have that regret. Don’t get me wrong, I love her character and fully understand her decision. But she should’ve said something to Yoda when he gave her the chance. And that’s OK. It’s fine for our favorite characters to make mistakes. That makes them human and relatable.

    ETA: Noting mod warning. That’s it from me on the subject.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  10. Jedi Master Scorpio

    Jedi Master Scorpio Star Wars Television star 4 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2015
    That seems like a good idea since there has been two warnings already given in this thread. There won't be a third trust me.
     
    TheSilentInfluence likes this.
  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Re. novel & episodes, Filoni obviously had an idea for how their confrontation would go but it was really likely not fleshed out fully, probably just knew the bullet points, conversation, confrontation, Maul captured, Order 66 happens, burial site of clone helmet (Rex's helmet) and her abandoned lightsabers, which we see in both the prologue and the episode itself. But easy head canon is that Ahsoka's flashbacks in the novel to the events of the finale are just that, flashbacks that are distorted through the prism of memory. All the stuff she said happens still happened.
     
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  12. Seerow

    Seerow Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 7, 2011
    Is the Ahsoka novel written in first person?
     
  13. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    nah, but the flashbacks in the Ahoska novel to the clone wars are all italicized in a different text format. Not impossible to read that as what she is remembering from her perspective. If anything the different text format is meant to indicate to the reader "this is a flashback/memory" of the events.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
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  14. Ahsoka's Tano

    Ahsoka's Tano Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2014
    The clone wars sequence at the beginning is a prologue; it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the premise of the main story. After watching the final episodes, you might be better off just ignoring the prologue and going to the first chapter. I have the physical book as well as the audio version, and Ashley reads it from beginning to end. It's not in first person, but hearing Ashley's voice as Ahsoka does make it a little more genuine.
     
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  15. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2012
    Just watched the last clone wars. The burying of the clones and vader finding Ashokas sabre is now one of my fave star wars moments ever.
     
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  16. Maythe14thBeWithYou

    Maythe14thBeWithYou Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2014
    Yea, it was awesome & poignant.
     
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  17. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Rewatched this recently. Did not expect to feel sad and empty but I did - it was really excellently done. Showed how pointless the war was without even a single line of dialogue about the concept.