main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

A/V The Clone Wars was back

Discussion in 'Literature' started by GrandAdmiralJello , Jul 19, 2018.

  1. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Padme marrying Anakin after he has a psychotic rant in which he confesses to murdering women and children always felt a bit off to me. Yes to be angry is to be human but I'm not sure a mass murder confession is the way to a woman's heart [face_thinking];)

    Seriously I think it's because the Anakin in TCW and the Anakin in the PT are just so different. Your invested in ones relationship and not in the other because of it
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  2. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Well we see real women hook up with prisoners etc. in real life. And turn their nose up at men who are deemed "nice guys" because that term has been redefined in a lot of circles to mean "suspiciously friendly person who secretly has bad intentions". Of course those people exist (and should be reported to law enforcement and imprisoned) but it's now been thrown around a lot more recklessly (look how many people said Lando was "hitting" on Jannah whereas I watched that scene several times and there was nothing romantic or sexual in anything he said to her at all).

    Also, Padme quickly rationalized it likely because what Anakin did wasn't illegal in Hutt law. She probably sees the Tuskens as subhuman too. Note she only gets horrified upon hearing of Anakin murdering Jedi kids, not Tusken ones (even though the Jedi massacre was also legally authorized by emergency empowered Chancellor/Emperor Palpatine).

    Remember Padme comes from a planetary culture which was not exactly a shining beacon of equal rights for the Gungan residents.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  3. cherifzachary

    cherifzachary Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2018
    I just wanted to write down a couple of behind the scene details that can help make sense of the new episodes.
    The earlier drafts of siege of mandalore most likely did not take place alongside revenge of the sith. In fact one of the sketches dave filoni gave of the arc clearly shows ki adi mundi on coruscant with other jedi when ashoka contacts the jedi to let them know Maul was on Mandalore. Ki adi mundi is away from the coruscant for the whole of rots and he is clearly not a hologram in the sketch given to us by dave filoni.

    The original order 66 arc episode was originally going to take place on a planet where ashoka and rex were going to escape on a wolf. The arc would have also shown the beginning of the dark times era. (Dave Filoni spoke about this arc durirng the ashoka's untold stories panel)
    Also in the original siege of mandalore arc Ashoka was actively rethinking about rejoining the jedi order.

    Originally Rex was suppose to remove his chip during the top gun hommage arc during which he went on a spiritual journey with r2d2 on a y wing.
    Maul surviving the clone wars was according to Sam Witwer an idea Lucas had.

    The order 66 arc and the siege of mandalore were combined because Filoni could not make the wolf concept work. He did however include the wolves in rebel.
    Originally 12 other clones were going to remove their chips and you would have seen them living with rex on the at te. That being said Filoni might have nixed the idea simply because it was too much fan service.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  4. Xammer

    Xammer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2009
    When I first saw the relevant Rebels episode, I imagined Rex removing his chip with his bare hand.

    Also a remark that I haven't seen here: I noticed that the fact that Order 66 is now originating from a chip and it is not an official contingency order (as in Traviss) is reinforced here by having the clones stating that it is an order "from Darth Sidious". This feels a bit risky, though, by practically making it potentially public that Palpatine is Sidious (which I presumed was not an admitted fact even after the declaration of the New Order). On the other hand, now, even if Palpatine had been deposed for some reason during the war, he would still have had the authority of executing the order.
     
    Iron_lord likes this.
  5. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Just checking, is *all* of that confirmed, or partly speculation? Most of it I do know, but I didn't know these bits were confirmed:

    -The "wolf sketch" definitively being from the Order 66 arc
    -The absolute confirmation that there *was* an Order 66 arc, apart from SoM, since by the time of the AHSOKA novel they were already one and the same
    -Rex's chip removal being during the R2/"Top Gun" arc (all I recall about this arc is that it was planned and was generally called exactly that)

    Not really doubting this and I won't pretend I remember all the details of the various panel discussions I've seen over time, but those were new to me. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  6. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I would say that the chip, among making the clones do various things, also has a "Hey, he's Darth Sidious" subroutine written in there. Maybe that's why they decomissioned the clones so fast in canon, had to put a lid on it!
     
    Slater, Xammer and Iron_lord like this.
  7. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    The "Lord Sidious" line was just pointless and, as you indicated, makes less sense in-universe if Palpatine is trying to preserve his secret identity as long as possible.
     
    fett 4 and Xammer like this.
  8. cherifzachary

    cherifzachary Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2018
    The lord sidious line apparently came from input Sam Witwer gave. In revenge of the sith the clone troopers say yes my lord when they receive order 66. We also see them becoming more agressive as they start to round up wookies and the people of utapu. According to Witwer the chip had the effect of brainstorming the clones into embracing the imperial mindset not just killing the jedi.

    We just got confirmation that order 66 and siege of madalore were two different arcs with the ET interview Dave Filoni gave today. Also i remember hearing hidalgo saying that rex removed his chip before the end of the war (something that was mentioned in the ashoka novel )and considering that the rex and r2 arc was rex's last arc as a solo character it seems reasonable to assume that he would remove his chip during that arc.
    That being said we dont know when the decision was made to combine the order 66 arc and mandalore arc. Was it made for rebels season 2 or was it made before? We dont know because there was only loose scripts
     
  9. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    That is a great point, literally the instant response is "Yes, my Lord" in Episode III when Cody gets Order 66. (kinda disappointed Rex didn't respond with that here too) So it seems to be implied that Lord Sidious/Dark Lord is embedded with Order 66 in the clones.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    Xammer likes this.
  10. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    It could also just be an honorary name for Chancellor, thus Windu's "You are under arrest my lord" in the same film.
     
  11. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    It's Morai the convor.
     
    BigAl6ft6 likes this.
  12. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Vader's too soft. Kylo Ren would have said "Blow that **** bird out of the sky!" :kylo:
     
    BigAl6ft6 and Arawn_Fenn like this.
  13. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    "More! MORE!!!"
     
    chrcharcor2 and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  14. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    That's assuming Windu calling Chancellor "my lord" was a reference to him being the chancellor instead of condescendingly addressing him a dark lord. (he straight up calls him a Sith Lord earlier in the film) the implication in both Cody and Windu's line calling him lord is that they're talking about a Sith lord not a honourary lord title for Chancellor that we haven't heard before.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    ConservativeJedi321 likes this.
  15. cherifzachary

    cherifzachary Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2018
    A long time ago, I heard Sam Witwer explain that the chips in the clones head cause them to see Sidious as their god to whom they robotically pledge undying loyalty and fanatically obey his every order. Its a severe form of brain washing that overrides their loyalty to the republic. Sam Witwer also points out the fact that the chips were only installed in the clones after he decided to take Anakin as his apprentice hence why the clones dont accidentally start shooting at him when he leads the assault on the temple. The clones are program to eliminate any rivals to the ruling two sith lords hence why they try to kill darth maul and ashoka and even the inquisitors in the darth vader comic even though they are not jedi generals. Also if you think about it Palpatine contacts the clones while wearing his signature darth sidious attire. Also at the beginning of the siege Maul says that Sidious will come out into the light soon and it is fitting that by the end of the arc the clones openly acknowledge sidious as their god emperor. It also basically means palpatine has an army that is personally loyal to him and would protect him from a general who would want to lead an anti sith rebellion.
    The star wars underworld tv show however was suppose to show however that the clones deeply regretted order 66 and that the brain washing was not as good as palptaine had hoped hence why they were phased out. The Sith troopers in ROS have been brain washed with a technique that remedied the flaws of the clones brainwashing
     
    JediFett10, Xammer and BigAl6ft6 like this.
  16. TheCloneWarsForever

    TheCloneWarsForever Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2018
    Honestly, it was obvious even on first viewing that this arc was really two stories edited together. The first being the choice to rely on dysfunctional institutions (Jedi Council) vs chaotic anarchy (Maul). The second being choosing friendship and loyalty and to stop being drawn into war and killing former allies, all which only served Sidious's rise to power.
     
    JediFett10 likes this.
  17. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    That might be his idea about it, but that's not what we see on screen. The chips inserted or grown into the clone's brain when they're still a developing fetus, so they've existed since the beginning.

    I really think they're being honest when they say it's an inhibitor chip to make the clones more docile and compliant.

    Either way, it doesn't make a lot of sense for any clone to know who Sidious is, unless they've received some kind of training to follow his orders. Perhaps they're conditioned on this one thing from a very early age.
    What do you mean?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    BigAl6ft6 and fett 4 like this.
  18. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    I have big problems with the whole Clone thing in general. In S6 The Jedi discover that Dooku is Lord Tryanus, the man who ordered the Clones built and who also happens to be head of the Side they are at war with. Not once do they think "hmm he built an Army to fight himself, why would he do that ?" Nor does Yoda think "Clones built by our enemy, suspicious we should be" Nope he just orders a cover up and won't even tell the Head of the Government that his Governmental Army might be compromised by the Head of the Opposing side they are currently at war with. Especially after the whole Fives arc in which a Jedi was literally murdered by a Clone [face_dunno]

    I won't list the AotC issues with the subject as we could be here all day but basically its the same thing
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  19. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    There's definitely a lot going on the clones in development, growing and how much their personalities flip when Order 66 happens so it's not entirely implausible that buried away in all that conditioning is an overriding order that Dark Sith Lord Darth Sidious is the boss.

    I never quite got why it's called an "inhibitor chip" as in what exactly is it supposed to be inhibiting? Maybe the clones #1 goal is kill all the Jedi (which seems likely, that is ultimately what they are there for) so the inhibitor chip is meant to do just that, stop them from killing Jedi. So when Fives chip got friend he defaulted to his primary mission.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2020
    Slater, Barriss_Coffee and Iron_lord like this.
  20. Darth Wookiee

    Darth Wookiee Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2013
    Can you tell me the timecode on the video where Dave confirms Order 66 and Siege of Mandalore were going to be different arcs? I don’t know if they were both originally intended to be four episodes each, but if they were that would make a 28 episode Season 8 (DD part 2, Yuuzhaan Vong, Rex and R2, Sith Shrine, Mon Cala, SOM, and Order 66.
     
  21. Xammer

    Xammer Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Well, after 6 years of waiting, it should have been 28 episodes.
     
    JediFett10 likes this.
  22. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    12 episodes was fine, it's just the arcs they used could've been better chosen.
     
  23. cherifzachary

    cherifzachary Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Its about three minutes in the interview. But keep in mind that they only had rough outlines at that point.
     
    Darth Wookiee likes this.
  24. fett 4

    fett 4 Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2000
    Cosmonaught Variety Hour has done his review of Season 7

     
    Jedi Knight Fett likes this.
  25. Christus Regnet

    Christus Regnet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2016
    When I saw those, at the time I was under the impression that it was at the very end of the war, and the Jedi figuring this out caused them great consternation, and not knowing who to trust, so they put their efforts into discovering the plot, and finding Sidious, or who he is.

    Looking back, that doesn't quite make sense considering Obi Wan and Anakin are gone from Coruscant for 6 months before the war's end, but those s6 TCW episodes sure make it sound like they're in the endgame. In the order 66 arc, Fives goes to that clone bar and sees his buddies and says "I see the 501st is back on Coruscant" and in the last arc with Yoda, he finds out that the Jedi are going to lose, and says "We're moving to the end now."

    Maybe those season 6 episodes are out of chronological order.
     
    fett 4 likes this.