Full Series The Clovis Trilogy (6.05-6.07) Discussion Thread

I love it too.

Anyway... Clovis. I finally got around to watching this arc last night, and yeah... it did not do it for me, at all. I couldn't even enjoy watching Anakin beat Clovis up, I just wanted the fight and the arc to end.

So to sum up my feelings on the "Lost Missions"... two great arcs (Order 66 and Yoda) and two bad arcs (Clovis and Jar-Jar/Mace).

 

San Hill not being on this arc is a major flaw, now that Palpatine controls the banks I do not understand why San Hill is on the CIS Council on ROTS. It was confusing that he wasn't on the Banking Clan council, but at least then it was possible that he could have been secretly controlling the Banking Clan through puppets or a puppet.

There were a few things I liked such as the brilliant Embo action, Commander Thorn destroying so many battle droids and the small Separatist victory, but over all the actual plot was a bad idea. I also found it pretty boring to see another CIS invasion with Dooku and a Super Tacical Droid behind it.

 

Getting around to this...

Scipio, Skipio... I'm sorry what a funny sounding name for the planet. I liked the vault design though, not surprisingly, its very steampunk. To be honest An Old Friend is a boring episode of Padme bickering about Clovis then shutting up and easily deciding to trust him. She even went over to his house to spend the night and start plotting with Clovis. Hmmm... I rarely have to poke at TCW over animation anymore but the animation of the hologram outlining Clovis's plot was really strange, it almost looked like the unfinished animation in special features of on the Blu-rays. Question... How does Padme keep finding these hand maiden/ servant girls or whatever they are? They always die. How could anybody want that job?

Luckily things pick up soon as we get this neat intro of Anakin's legs walking off his ship. Man those air speeders being used on Scipio (and I know we've seen them before) are really dangerous looking craft even by GFFA standards. Its like Kit Cloudkick's air foil oversized and with engines. The dialogue going back and forth between Clovis and Anakin is funny. Clovis needs to work on his comebacks. As many times as I saw it in clips and trailers the sledding scene delivered and it was cool to see Embo again.

LOL the guy with the Droopy Dog voice. Nobody really seems to wonder how Clovis survived Senate Spy. I guess I'll pass off Anakin saying, Padme is always saying its for the good of the Republic when Clovis is around, as a line of jealousy because it pisses me off if I take it for real. I understand that they brought this guy back because it would be dumb as hell to create another lover. This is where this arc shines by bringing relevence to those snoozefest political episodes in season 3 with the panicking about the Republics financial state and this loan which I figured has something to do with not only funding the war but funding that order of GAR clones. Still not sure how thats going to work since it takes ten year but that's another debate entirely. Its to bad I found the actual senate stuff just as bad as in season 3 and more on that later.

Palps is once again shown in top form taking another Xanatos Gambit. Does he know? The remainder of "The Rise of Clovis" gets melancholy with the marital problems emerging between Anakin and Padme, Anakin does that sexist, "You will listen to me because I'm your husband!" trying to control Padme and it really backfires. I swear Anakin's lower lip quivered at the end of Obi-wan's lecture where he brings up Satine. Its the mere thought of letting go. I thought it built well into the shockingly dark scene when Anakin walked in just as Clovis was pretty much forcing himself on Padme. Anakin had been worried about Clovis's serpant. (xD!) Yeah, dark as it was I hate pigs like that. I only rooted for Anakin more when Clovis's dumbass tried to level the playing field and told Anakin, "Come at me bro." Holy eetwidomayloh. Then comes the temp break up scene and I felt sorry for both of them. Naturally Padme was running from the sociopath behavior that she seemed to know was coming. Still I felt sorry for Anakin. I think Clovis actually felt sorry enough to not cover for Anakin and not just because he got his ass whooped or because he was trying not to get arrested.

And that's the last bit of common sense we get from Clovis (And Padme) who really makes Lux look like a genius with how easy the slimball is trapped by Dooku. Maybe the medic droid should have checked harder for conclusions or something. The time skip between getting the Compact Flash disc (wow...) and standing in Palp's office again had to happen but was still weak. Here is the more of this later part. Maybe there is stuff here going way over my head (Very likely. x.x but WTF Republic Senate? LOL was Bail really the only one that voted against yet they are all quick to yell, "Oh we knew it all the time. Clovis is a traitor and a tool, bomb the dirtbag!". The camera briefly shows Chuchi with a grin on her face like Shaq. Wasn't it a little convenient the CIS was pulling out when Anakin showed up? After Thorn was a waste even if his last stand was badass. I noticed how fluid his kama was when he was fighting. It was like a butt cape which was kinda cool.

I'm sorry but I laughed at Clovis when he realized Dooku had owned him. Wow Padme barely batted an eye over being forced to shoot that guy. I LOLed at the nerviousness in Rex's voice when assuring Commander Skywalker about Senator Amidala. Between him and Yoda's dialogue in the send off its so open. Enough negativity, things get awesome again when Anakin arrives with the troop. The animation on the air battle coming in is amazing, damn that this is on Netflix. The final confrontation was strong and I almost felt sorry at Clovis's desperation and realization his legacy is going to suck. The scene when the droid fighter crashes and the building comes down with Anakin, Clovis, and Padme inside it is up there with best animation in the series. I appreciated the symbolism of Anakinn holding Padme with the fire in the background after Clovis's sacrafice. The scene was beautifully scored as was the scary music when Palps takes control of the banks.

Individually I give "An Old Friend" a 6/10 for the boring first half. "The Rise of Clovis" I give an 8/10 for covering alot of ground with Anakin and Padme. Crisis of the Heart is a 5/5, it ends strong. Its not my favorite arc.

 

In an assortment of episodes that included a Jar Jar duology, I'm surprised to say that I found the Clovis arc to be my least favorite of the bonus content's offerings.

I like that this whole plot's kicked off by the need for funds in order to aid those who've been harmed or displaced by the war. Too often these issues are considered extraneous and go unnoticed, and I'm assuming this falls under Padme's work with the Refugee Relief Movement. I enjoyed the variety in the design of the Muuns, and the IBC is the one Separatist group where the idea of neutrality really works. The clockwork aesthetic of Scipio was nice, as was the general design of the Scipioan city. The weak dialogue soon kicks in, though, with an argument between Padme and Clovis that isn't actually so much an argument as it is an awkward recap of Senate Spy's events. We also get into the heart of the episode about here, a with a story of a galactic scale Ponzi scheme threatening to ruin the IBC and the galactic economy. There's some good story potential here, but I feel like it suffers from being something of a quick and not always well thought-out cash in on the financial crises. This has also usually been the part where I grumble about Tim Curry Palpatine, but thankfully the much-delayed Clovis arc still features the wonderfully talented Ian Abercrombie; his loss truly was awful, and I can't help but imagine how much better these other already enjoyable Palpatine scenes from season six would've been if Abercrombie was still with us. And while I love him a lot, Phil Lamarr's still a terrible fit for Bail, though at least he doesn't sound bored for the better part of the arc, like Padme.

Clovis' house is pretty cool, but I have to laugh at Padme's inexplicable change of clothing with almost every change of scene throughout this arc. Pretty disappointed about Teckla's death: I much prefer her story from the Databank wherein she survived the war, went back to Naboo, got married, and took a job in service to Queen Kylantha. No happy endings allowed, I see. That'll be a point off in the review thread, unfortunately. So Padme arrested for espionage, Anakin waltzes in and take her home like a parent picking up their kid from the principal's office...and then it happens. It's been discussed quite a bit about how Anakin's behavior in TCW is often seen as divergent from his personality in various other media. Though I've obviously been aware of their intentional decision to bolster his heroic aspects for the series, I've never really weighed in on the subject, until my gut reflex made the decision for me during this episode quite unexpectedly. Anakin's sudden outburst of jealous rage, verbally attacking Padme, culminating in a threat―real or otherwise―to leave her imprisoned for his perceived wrongdoing, and then leading her out like a disobedient puppy...after watching Anakin in TCW for so long, my gut reaction was that this was wrong, out of character. But it isn't, it's perfectly in character for Anakin, and I realized just how taken in by the more nobler Anakin I'd become. Clovis is no angel, but there's a very unpleasant presentation of Anakin in this arc that's borderline uncomfortable to watch.

Embo is, as usual, great. I really enjoyed his relationship with his anuba, and despite the semi-ludicrous nature, his hatboarding was fun to watch. Coming into The Rise of Clovis, I found I kind of prefer the older Sidious model, draped in the unadorned black cloak, and I wish they hadn't decided to keep exclusively reusing the robes he wore to Sundari throughout the rest of the show. As I'm watching the discussion on funds being stolen from the bank, the Republic Commando fan in me can't help but chuckle at the fit Clovis and company would throw if they knew what the Null-ARCs were up to. And we get another round of Anakin being a jealous, controlling jackass. Yay. I do really like the way the episode showed off Anakin's quarters: they're so perfectly him, and a nice evolution of the room twelve-year-old Anakin was described as having in Rogue Planet. I liked conversation between Padme and Clovis a lot, seeing the Muuns framed as an individual and multifaceted people with some bad elements that contrasts nicely with the highly materialistic, always-greedy culture of the Neimoidians. Clovis recounting his past and adoptive family also managed to earn some sympathy from me―that was a good combination of writing and delivery from Downes―and if he didn't immediately try to force Padme to kiss him afterward, I may even have stumbled into liking him a little. Crisis averted however, as very plain protests go ignored because she probably really likes him deep down and just has trouble admitting it or something, so he keeps going. Have I mentioned that I hate the "a no always just means try harder" mentality?

With this scene, I find myself almost immediately on Anakin's side, seeing as he walks in the door to find someone in the process of forcing himself on his wife despite her protests. Clovis deserves to get his ass stomped by this point. But it should've ended when Anakin hoisted him off his feet, choking him, before driving him into the wall. He was stopped, he was punished, he was warned. Clovis goaded Anakin into the fight, sure, but when says it would be a pleasure, he very clearly means it. While it was sloppily choreographed, the fight was brutally one-sided, and the damage woefully disproportionate. Anakin dealt repeated blows to the head and torso from a hand capable of denting steel, slamming Clovis through a glass table, all the while ignoring Padme's pleas for him to stop, and openly retorting that her feelings didn't matter to him. The fight ceased to be about Padme after nearly the first blow, and instead became solely about Anakin, his feelings, his pride. Padme began as the impetus, and ended as an afterthought because he had to fix things. I do like that as the red haze lifted, even Anakin seemed to realize that he'd crossed a serious line, but I like even more that Padme was not having any of it. Padme's audible realization that she did not feel safe in their relationship and her decision to extricate herself from a situation was an example that could stand to be set more often.

I wish the droid that had attended to Clovis had been kept a PROXY droid as originally intended, but I guess they didn't want to bother making a new model. It's amusing that the scene is still structured as though the droid had been a PROXY all the same. I find the fact that an "overwhelming" majority of the Republic would be perfectly happy to hand the IBC over to a known Separatist financier and profiteer rather questionable, but Palpatine's talk with Anakin was good for what it was, and moving into Crisis at the Heart, I enjoyed seeing Bec Lawise and Padme getting along civilly despite their political divide. Nice penthouse office, Clovis, and I like the ceremonial stole they've got Clovis wearing now that he's in charge. Dooku's blackmail attempt, however, is awfully weak. Clovis need only follow through on his word and inform the Senate of the source of his intel; intel is intel in politics and spycraft, and so long as the information pans out, the source is essentially irrelevant. Reporting that Dooku also attempted to extort favor for his assistance, favor that was provably declined by the unchanged interest rate, would only strengthen Clovis' position. Dooku's threat of withhold interest payments to collapse the banks is also tenuous, not to mention that the Banking Clan has ways of enforcing debts, as well, so I'm disappointed to see Clovis immediately folding to Dooku's demands. Considering where things are headed anyway, I think it would've been much better to skip all of that and immediately move to the CIS invasion as the symbol of Clovis' supposed collusion with the Separatists.

The shocktroopers did far better than they had any right to, defending such an indefensible position from air and ground assault. Thorn went out like a badass, and I finally found an instance of "For the Republic" in this arc that I actually liked. Dooku has perfect villainous timing, and the incredibly cold, unfazed manner with which he walks over the bodies as though they're little more than dirt is excellent, even kicking the head of one of the troops on his way out. The way Palpatine immediately called upon Anakin to lead the attack force, enabling his need to save Padme in a way no Jedi on the Council would, was just perfect. Back on Scipio, Clovis is conveniently tongue-tied, incapable of ever spitting out what was actually going on even to Padme for...some logical reason, I'm sure. I liked the way Dooku manipulated the situation, but with Clovis just sort of standing there, it wasn't much of an accomplishment. The Senate chamber dialogue was rather...blunt, but I liked Yoda's moment with Anakin at the dry dock. It was nice to see Lieutenant Hawk again, even if the space battle was a less than spectacular tactical retreat.

The overwhelming wave of Republic gunships coming down on a Muun world...anybody else get a Battle of Muunilist/microseries vibe? I did, if only for a moment. I liked the comm chatter they added in over the gunship approach and the fighter battle, and it was cool to see the 501st storm the landing platforms. Wasn't exactly thrilled to see Clovis make a hostage of Padme, even if there's a certain logic to his defensive reasoning after his last encounter with Anakin. I am glad to see that Anakin did at least try to save him, and that for all of his many flaws, Clovis did at least care enough for Padme to value her life over his. Theirs is such an unhealthy relationship, but I suppose things ended on a happy enough note between Padme and Anakin. More obviously sinister politics close out the episode, and I was almost enjoying Palpatine's speech...until the awkward dialogue kicked in again and we got a "Long live the banks!" chant. Overall a decent enough trio of episodes, but I still found them the weakest of season six.

 

I love the political aspect of Star Wars, but in these episodes I found it very boring. The saving grace was the sled sequence. Embo snowboarding to some really great, dynamic music was a highlight!

The Anakin/Padme/Clovis bit was filler, for me.

 

I thought Padme was a ridiculously stupid character already and she always just seemed like character forced into a story because Lucas likes really young girls to be put into adult roles.

However the Bonus Content in my opinion just makes her look like an even bigger idiot than she already was.

We're supposed to believe that she is so wise politically that she can match witts with people twice her age and is known as one of the top politicians in the galaxy. That is all well and good however the problem comes in when they at the same time try to force her into the role of Anakin's very fragile and naive wife/lover.

We are now to believe that Padme still was in shock over Anakin turning to the darkside in ROTS even though he beat the crap out of a guy over jealousy in the bonus content without bothering to listen to any explanation the two were trying to give him. This to go along with the fact that she knows that Anakin did kill in Ep. II.

Padme's character seems even more forced after viewing the bonus content. TCW did a good job of making many of the things from ROTS make more sense however Padme was definitely not one of them. Maybe Padme's character was so poorly written to begin with by Lucas there is little people can do with her.​

 

I actually thought Anakin was waaaay more in line with his PT self here than throughout most of the rest of TCW.

PT Anakin is not someone I can really see being a leader. He's a whiny, selfish brat, and not someone I would think would command a whole hell of a lot of respect on the battlefield as a military leader - if not for the clones being pretty much indoctrinated to love the Republic and obey.

Even in AOTC when he gives orders, "shoot him down! [...] well, follow him!" they just seem said with such an immature attitude compared to someone like Yoda or Qui-Gon that command respect and keep a cool head.

TCW Anakin largely gave us something that was sorely missing from the PT - notably a likable character - but he's also completely different, because he is someone I can see the clones really appreciating and obeying, and having a much greater presence that commands respect than Hayden ever did as the character.

And so all of Anakin's immaturity regarding his wife actually to me seemed spot in in regards to PT Anakin. The guy that blames Obi-Wan for Shmi's death in a fit of rage because Anakin feels he could have done something, but Obi-Wan was holding him back. Or that when Padme does finally reveal her feelings for him, he kind of rubs her face in it IMO, in a "oh, gee. I thought we weren't going to do this," kind of way.

And when it comes to Anakin in ROTS, he's not really any better. The whole reason he falls and goes onto do the most terrible of things is because he thinks his wife is going to die. And when Padme asks him to talk to Palpatine, he gets pissy about it, and there was the dropped subplot of Anakin getting angry at the notion that Obi-Wan was meeting with Padme when he wasn't around.

I really felt like this was that Anakin in the Clovis arc. The same Anakin that he had always been in the films (at least since AOTC).

The question that gets raised though is, what the hell does Padme see in him. She even asserts in AOTC that she pretty much fell in love with him the instant he walked back in her life. Why oh God, why? Because not only does she jeopardize her position in being with him (and his), but she's with a guy that has an inability to compromise (which relationships tend to require), and who doesn't take any kind of criticism, in good stride at all.

Padme, to me, has always been boring since TPM. But at least she was strong willed. And over time, that's been almost completely torn down, almost single handed by pairing her with Anakin who was written to be this way. The moment you pair a strong willed, idealistic, mature senator with a sniveling little brat, that's going to reflect poorly on her. Anakin could have been written better. He could have been written the way he was in TCW from the start. He could have seen eye-to-eye with her on political issues, or been the one to go out of his way to help her when the rest of the Jedi wouldn't. But instead he goes from a very optimistic 9 year old to a very whiny 19 year old, to an obsessive 22 year old. And coulda, woulda, shoulda, but the damage is done and Anakin was written to pretty much be openly selfish, feeling himself to be the victim, constantly blaming others for his troubles, engaging in self-destructive behavior, and they put Padme with this guy.

There really was no chance for Padme to come out the other side of this as a character I could relate to or respect once Lucas committed to the writing of AOTC. And really, in the Clovis arc, what I see is that Anakin. The one from the films. Not the retroactive inclusion of a respectable Anakin.

 

Good things about these episodes:

Anakin beating the ever loving crap out of somebody and being completely justified for once (dude was forcing himself on his wife)

Z-95 Headhunters in an extended dogfight

Everything else was meh.

 

Is that a vague Darth Vader silhouette?

 

Don't know if it's meant to, but I can definitely see it. The helmet and the cape can just be made out; nice catch.

I actually thought this trilogy was fairly well done, and set up events in ROTS, specifically the deteriorating relationship between Anakin and Padme, and where the mess of trust issues between the two of them came from in ROTS, which eventually led to Padme's death. I think it makes a lot more sense given her backing of Clovis here, and Anakin's subsequent beating of him. Said beating I think could have been presented better. Not that it wasn't interesting, not that Anakin doesn't have it in him, but I think it should've been implied that part of it was due to new stress he'd been under since Ahsoka had left the Order. Honestly, for all her problems in continuity and as a character, i've said before that she helped Anakin live up to Obi-Wan's claim of being a "good man" as a Jedi Knight. Of course there was the occasional Dark Side action, but that's to be expected and over the course of TCW was much less frequent than with previous portrayals of the character. I think Ahsoka leaving would've left him feeling somewhat adrift and loss, causing him to not only rely on Padme and Obi-Wan more, but grow increasingly more selfish and protective of the two most important people in his life; which is where his inner fears of losing both are ever more magnified, especially with Padme. He's lost his mother, and now he's lost his Padawan. Losing Obi-Wan is a constant fear with Dooku and Ventress on the loose. Padme's the one he can always count on, take solace from, and believe is safe. The thought of her slipping away, no matter how unlikely, would of course drive him over the edge, and ends with his fight with Clovis.

There was also really no resolution within this arc. Palpatine controls the money, Clovis is dead, Dooku's still out there, but the toll this has taken on Anakin and Padme is never actually confronted and it should've been, even if it was only to highlight the new cracks in their relationship.

 

in the Republic attack, are those Z-95 Headhunters?! they certainly appear to be

 

They are indeed.

 

I thought this arc was pretty good, and in particular I loved the Separatist attack on the clones:



That is what the CIS should have been the whole time, imo. Brutal, efficient, and inhumanly cold. It's a shame we had to wait so long to see it.

 

I caught that myself. I had to rewind it just to make sure I'd seen it.

 

Luke and Leia are the products of make-up sex. Makes sense. They set that up really well.

 

The episode 6:07 was just epic. That last bit about Thorn making a last stand was really really tragic. Have you guys ever wondered how these valiant clones give up their lives......for a corrupt republic with a villainous leader? I know this is done to make the scenes more interesting, but the first 99% of clones died in the first 15 seconds, then Thorn just blasts more of them than the rest of his men combined. Same as Keeli in season 3 and Hevy in season 1. Add that to the fact that characters that appear in ROTS can't die, and therefore whenever I see Jar Jar vs Droidekas, I just know that hes gonna dance his way outta it. Random clones tho...... they get killed off REALLY quickly.

 

Yeah that was a pretty good fight although a total waste of Thorn. His last stand was cool going hand to hand but not quite as cool as Keeli's last stand.

 

Im sorry to all those Star Wars fans that will hate me after I say this, but I REALLY don't like Padme anymore. Sure she pushes for diplomatic solutions and reduced military sending, BUT she totally forgets that every time she goes on one of those peaceful talks, she gets CAPTURED, (Scipio, Malevolence, Rodia) and those CLONES that she is to cut funding for are the ones who have to risk their lives to save her (+Anakin). Seriously, can't she stay away from danger???? Oh and did I mention that generally staying close to Clovis ISNT a good idea while Anakin is around????

 

I'd rather she pursue a diplomatic solution than sit on Coruscant like the rest of her colleagues.

 

You remember Mystery of 1,000 Moons when Padme is all like...

"What a waste."
"With all do respects its what these men were born to do." - Rex
"Lets hope their sacrifice was not in vain."

...when the clones are dying from the Virus. I shake my head everytime Rex offers her a blaster as opposed to her or Ahsoka who used to be a little smartass back then telling her to go sit in the corner and be quiet. That's pretty cold what she said to him. I wonder if she ever did have to explain to any of the clones her decision to add exchange Grievous for Anakin.