The Comic Book Character Draft Episode VIII: The Secret Draft *congrats, Loyal!!*

6, 5, pick up wins.

Plan 9 From Outer Space (1) vs. The ABCs (1)

Jean/Cyc (prepped) vs. Karate Kid
X-Men

Wonderman (forfeit) vs. Firestorm

Warworld

Rorschack?s Wrecking Crew (0) vs. Team Ragnarok (2)

Thor vs. Juggernaut
Seen it. Seen the sequel. Finished the trilogy. Juggernaut

Machine Man (prepared) vs. Atrocitus
Yeah, I don't see the upset happening. Atrocitus

Sanctuary of Agent Orange

 

I agree

But it should be 0 - 2.

Also, I know you're going to go on and on about Thor beating Jugs, but... it's not going to happen. Jugs is going to ride the hammer back like he did last time, and punch him in the face.

Atrocitus is just... better.

 

Well, I wasn't really asking for proof...just for a spot to reread the discussion as I didn't remember the decission. Thanks for being an over achiever though, much appreciated.

Was this directed to me?

 

Someone... This isn't hard.

 

It hasn't even been 24 hours yet, patience Yakkers.

 

Next Draft...

[image=http://firelineshirts.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/flame11.81202638_std.jpg]
The Flame Returns...

 

[image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/FireExtinguisherABC.jpg]

or if you prefer...

[image=http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k257/bozoartist/ointment.jpg]

 

You're right. Thor

 

First off there are 3 other battles too, I guess you agree on them. But really thor has never beat juggernaut... never. And everytime jugs pounds him, how in the world are you giving this to him? Egregious.

 

That call really does ignore... All of Marvel Comics. That's... That's not just bad, it's wrong.

 

Agree to disagree.

 

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-347290-thor-vs-juggernaut.html
The one time Thor has even come close to hurting Juggernaut. And guess what, he still didn't come close to winning. As he conceded. I'd love to hear exactly what Thor is going to do to win, since his writers don't even think he can.

No need to "prove" Juggernaut should still be in the draft by nerfing him. Just make the right call.

 

Yeah, I'm just gonna assume that call is some sort of joke, and move on to the next numbers, 4 and 3.

Plan 9 From Outer Space (2) vs. The ABCs (2)

Orion vs. Kyle Rayner

Forge (prepped) vs. Wonder Woman

Warworld

Rorschack?s Wrecking Crew (0) vs. Team Ragnarok (4)

Captain Comet (prepped) vs. Apocalypse (prepped)

Captain Atom vs. Solomon forfeit

Sanctuary of Agent Orange

 

Yeah, I haven't seen anything that tells me that this just isn't a really bad matchup for Thor. Unlike Hulk, Thor's power (though great and more varied) has finite limits to it. And he's less durable than Greenie. And yeah, Juggs seems to have his number most of the time.

Juggernaut

EDIT: Whoa, whoa, Yak. That... wasn't cool.

 

A couple of things have changed since then. Namely Thor getting an upgrade in power and magical ability and no longer needing Mjolnir to return to him in 60 seconds.


I'm dead serious, Yak. Thor was winning against Juggernaut until Mjolnir was forced to return to him after 60 seconds. He was negating Juggernaut's power enough to beat him. So, yeah, okay, he got back up right after Mjolnir stopped, but I don't see how that happens this time. Now. In the present. When that rule no longer applies, and when Thor has more magical options available to him.

 

orly?

Guess I need to go get myself more current on Blondie... *sigh*

 

First, I'd like to see the 60 second rule not applying anymore before the draft started. Second thanks durron for voting either way, I'm happy you voted for jugs though. Finally, not cool yak, even if I disagree with ef. I haven't seen anything new from thor predraft that would let me believe he could win.

 

Well, supposedly he's more powerful, but more recently he was taken out by Osbourn's Avenger's, so, I dunno. In any case, the Mjolnir trick he pulled that time would be much more effective now. The one that was cut short by a limitation he no longer has.


First, I'd like to see the 60 second rule not applying anymore before the draft started. Second thanks durron for voting either way, I'm happy you voted for jugs though. Finally, not cool yak, even if I disagree with ef. I haven't seen anything new from thor predraft that would let me believe he could win.

Are you asking where it was stated here, or in the comics in general? I don't think that it was ever stated here, but the 60 second rule was 86ed well before this draft started. Years.

 

Sorry for not editing, posting from the droid. Where in comics does it state this. I would like a scan or link, second, even without his shields, I still contend jugs is better. He was caught off guard by not having shields and actually getting hit. His regeneration still worked and he is still stronger than thor. Until thor actually beats him, having his shields down doesn't lead me to thinking he would lose.

Seems like I can edit on the droid, must have been a bad reception spot. Also apoc prepped over comet prepped. First no psychic has ever affected apoc because he has the best psychic recoil or feedback or whatever. At least I haven't seen it, and if so, comet isn't better than xavier and he definitely got waxed by his own psychic attack. second, apoc is better fist to cuffs than comet and stronger. Finally in 24 hours apoc has more to prep with and can make more than comet. Sorry this is a really bad draw for comet.

 

If I am not mistaken, Osbourn's Avenger's isn't really accurate....Sentry is really who took him out.....and in that fight Thor pushed the Sentry to the limit and it finally was Osbourn telling Robert to let loose and tear down Asgard...which ultimately unleashed the full power of the Void.

And I would also agree with EF, that 60 second rule is old...and hasn't held true for a while....definately not since Thor's rebirth after Ragnarok and his considerable power upgrade.

Basing any judgements off of Thor vs Jugg fights prior to the Ragnarok event is pointless.

 

Hm... I didn't know the enchantment was up, that's an interesting scenario. Although there are a few things that concern me about this match in terms of Thor winning.

A., The next time he fought Juggs, this strategy was nowhere to be found. I think I've blasted Thor's intelligence... About every match. And I'm still blasting.

B., Juggernaut still almost killed him before he got the advantage, and Thor has a history of losing or drawing to people with much less skill than him (say, Hulk).

C. Juggernaut knows about the trick now also. Again, if Thor uses it before it's too late. Juggs has been known to use the earthquake stomp in a fight, which would work REALLY well on Okaara (the sanctuary). And he apparently only needs a couple of hits to KO Thor if he nails him in the head. From Thor's perspective. Juggs isn't really dumb, he's used strategy before. Thor was facing Juggernaut written so stupid he couldn't just ride the hammer back as he's done before. It was pretty much Thor written as smart as he can be, vs. Juggernaut about as dumb as he can be.

It's a much better fight, perhaps I went off the deep end a bit early here, but right now I don't know if I can really flop here, though it has gone through my mind a few times.

Well, it's not pointless. He still needs to drain Juggernaut's magic to even be able to affect him, unless I'm missing something. Going to think about it some more but yeah, next matches are up.

 

From what I have read on the current Thor, his fighting strategy is far better than what he had in the 80's. You have to remember that during the Ragnarok events Thor went through the trials of Odin, and gained the wisdom of Odin, he is much more of a thinker than ever he used to be.

Also, just a few feats of Thor that happened during or right after the Ragnarok event...which took place before this draft started.

1) After sacrificing himself in order to gain Odin's wisdom and power, Thor confronted the gods of the Asgardians and destroyed Those Who Sit Above In Shadow (as they are called)

2) After that he went into hibernation, or Odin sleep, and there he confronted Bor (Odin's father and the first king of Asgard), Bor was one of the gods who helped create the universe. Thor beat him.

3) Thor has shown the ability to neutralize magic more than a few times before and after becoming King of Asgard. He drained the Destroyer, destroyed Mangog magically, fought and killed the Midgard Serpent twice.

Let's be serious here, what incarnation of Juggernaut would be able to pull any of that off? 8th day? Sure maybe, but we still know that Thor could drain the magic powering him.

Juggs is one dimensional, he has not evolved in the way that Thor has. You can cite examples of 10 year old fights til your face turns blue, but in doing that you aren't considering Thor at his peak/current power or wisdom. He doesn't fight like a brick at his peak, and he sure as hell has shown to be better than Juggernaut through what he did before and since the Ragnarok events.

 

He was caught off guard by not having shields and actually getting hit. His regeneration still worked and he is still stronger than thor. Until thor actually beats him, having his shields down doesn't lead me to thinking he would lose.

I disagree. He was dazed, and not only were his shields down, but he was losing power, because Thor cut off his source. Just when Thor was about to win (whether or not the blow that was supposed to be the final one would have been) his timer ran out, and that's the only way he lost. He had the upper hand in every other category at that point. And if one of his fights against Hercules is anything to go by, he certainly wouldn't tire out anytime soon, and could continue to pound a weakening Juggernaut until defeat was introduced into his incredibly limited vocabulary.

A., The next time he fought Juggs, this strategy was nowhere to be found. I think I've blasted Thor's intelligence... About every match. And I'm still blasting.

Well, sure, because the last time he tried it it didn't work, and it wasn't going to work that time because the enchantment was still there. As for his intelligence, sure, questionable, just like his opponent, but he's undergone an upgrade in that area as well.


B., Juggernaut still almost killed him before he got the advantage, and Thor has a history of losing or drawing to people with much less skill than him (say, Hulk).

Okay, sure. Except, if anyone in this fight is going to adapt their strategy this time around, I have to think it is Thor, because, even if he was almost killed, he still pulled out that hammer trick before he was.

C. Juggernaut knows about the trick now also.

And there's nothing he can do to stop it. An earthquake stomp after he's been cut off? I dunno. Anyway, Thor has so many more attack options now, to keep Juggernaut physically away from him, that I don't think Juggernaut would actually get to hit him in the head enough times that he needs to to end it before everything going for Thor happens.

Well, it's not pointless. He still needs to drain Juggernaut's magic to even be able to affect him, unless I'm missing something. Going to think about it some more but yeah, next matches are up.

And this he can do, and Juggernaut cannot stop it. Scenarios with Juggernaut winning can, in my mind, at least be delayed, or even completely avoided if Thor is smart enough. This scenario is completely out of Juggernaut's ability to stop.

I don't know, I've been looking for scans. Everything else says the enchantment has been lifted (wikipedia, marvel database, etc.), as well as a few people on a few forums (one guy said ten years, I don't know his source though).


To be clear, I'm not saying anyone is wrong for voting for Juggernaut. I don't imagine it's an easy feat to beat him. I'm simply of the opinion that, considering more recent events in Thor's character, this scenario is most likely. History says otherwise, but that was before. The fight hasn't happened in a little while, if I'm correct.

 

Really the best way for Juggs to win this fight, is for Thor to do nothing except stand toe to toe with him and allow Juggs to have the kind of fight that suits his limited ability...additionally to utilize none of his own magic or ranged options.

Stuff like thunder stomps do absolutely nothing when Thor doesn't need to be on the ground. Magic enhanced strength, durability and forcefields mean little against a guy who can (and has been shown) drain/neutralize magic.

Yak, if you really are hell bent on sticking with Thor being a idiotic brawler who fights dumb and ignores all that he is capable of...well you are just not looking at how Thor has evolved over the past few years. He really is far from still being that kind of character, and has been so much more than that for at least 3+ years now.

 

First off, 2 judges have voted for Jugs. Second, are we ignoring my argument for Apoc over Comet. I mean, that's the battle that is really important here imo. I've already won 3 hands down, Apoc Comet would make 4, and I have 1 more win guaranteed against anyone left, which is Maxima, Captain Atom, and well whoever your 3rd is doesn't matter. Apoc Comet really imo is much more of an interesting match too since both are prepped. We could debate for days about hypotheticals, but has Thor drained anyone's power that wasn't Asgardian. I don't think he could drain, Cytorrak's power. In fact, I would argue that after 8th day, he can't even cut it off with that same trick, but that's just me. Second, I still would like to see some proof that the enchantment has been broken before I even buy that the 60 second thing is lifted, or is that just hear say.