The Dark Knight: Casting Rumours for the Third Movie

They've altered most of the major villains to appear in the films so far. Ras' isn't out to destroy the world anymore; he's just extremely morally relative and believes that justice sometimes requires acts of genocide. I don't believe the Joker's killing sprees were ever an attempt to test Batman's limits. Scarecrow never had any links with Ras'. Two-Face certainly wasn't a homicidal vigilante.

The characters still work, though. Besides, Fries-to use his actual name-has probably the most miserable story out of any of the villains, besides Two-Face. You don't necessarily need the suit to make the character recognizable; just make sure he's been damaged by exposure to cold, and that he kills people in the same manner.

 

There is merit in your distinction of Ra's from his comics persona, but the other three -- Scarecrow, Joker and Two-Face -- are spot-on incarnations of their comics counterparts. The Joker not design a spree to test Batman's limits? Surely you jest. That's his raison d'etre. Two-Face not a homicidal vigilante? You may be a little behind in your reading. Two-Face's thirst for revenge on those who done him wrong is a core element of his persona.

I will grant that changing Mr. Freeze's mutation by cryogenic freezing chemicals into damage -- physical and psychological -- by said chemicals is a reasonable modification of the story. Either way, his wife dies as he attempts to freeze her, and he goes on a revenge-crazy rampage... not unlike a certain Gotham DA.

IMO it's too soon after the Schumacher abomination to re-visit the character, even if he could be made to seem realistic without losing his appeal. At all events, his character arc is strikingly close to the TDK Two-Face, so Freeze in a Batflick probably won't happen soon, if ever.

 

I've posted this in other places. It's kinda long, but it's my idea for a third film:

"Okay this is under the assumption that Two-Face is alive at the end of the Dark Knight.

Carmine Falcone was the leader of the mobs in Gotham during Batman Begins, up until the Scarecrow gassed him. The last place we saw Carmine Falcone was where? Arkham. Where am I assuming Two-face is at the end of Dark Knight? Arkham. A masked killer (perhaps a black skull mask?) shows up to kill Falcone in Arkham, and during the commotion the murderer also sets free some of the inmates, including Harvey Dent.

Suddenly mobsters start falling left and right. Gordon and Batman start collecting clues to find out who's behind the murders, which leads them to suspecting Dent. Gordon wants to catch Dent, Batman wants to redeem him. Little do they know, the killer is not Dent at all, but someone else. While this is happening, Dent makes some public appearances to show what Batman and Gordon had "done" to him. He tries to convince Gotham they need someone willing to kill those who do evil to make the city truly clean. The city eats it up seeing Dent as a mesiah, and since they were already hating Batman thanks to the events of the previous film, they begin a head hunt of Batman.

At any point Selina Kyle can enter the picture. In the comic, it's pretty much shown that Selina is the illegitimate daughter of Carmine Falcone. She shows up in Gotham to start looking for some kind of proof that the man who just died is in fact her father. She's already been a cat burglar for a while, so, she breaks into Falcones house one night looking for any type of connection she can find. As she's snooping around, the masked killer shows up and tries to kill her. Batman intervenes, but the killer gets away. He also attempts to apprehend Selina, but she seduces him and is able to get away. As the film goes on, it's shown she likes to hang out with the higher up in Gotham, which is how she meets Bruce. At first she helps Bruce get over the death of Rachel, but he quickly falls in love with her, as he senses they have more in common than he knows.

As these stories unfold, action scenes happen involving Batman having to deal with the citizens of Gotham as he tries to do his job. There are also several confrontations between this masked murderer, Two-face, and Batman. Batman can only assume that Harvey is trying to kill both Batman and the masked killer because he considers them both villains.

Batman finally catches up to Harvey, who is about to murder Alberto Falcone, who was the masked killer and the son of Carmine Falcone. Alberto had broken into Arkham to kill his father so he could finally get all of his assets, but then let loose some of the inmates to cover his tracks, not knowing that Harvey was one of them. Alberto planned on using the money to give power back to the mobs of Gotham City, but first he had to establish a new order by killing the leaders of the old families.

Harvey had been working behind the scenes, trying to find out who was the mastermind behind this plan, and who was pumping money into these new families that were popping up in the old ones places. It shows a that there is a bit of Dent left in Two-face, but his methods are twisted. Batman tries again to convince Harvey to not kill Alberto, and that he can be redeemed. Harvey leaves his redemption to a coin toss. But the coin is whipped out of the air as Selina, in her cat burglar garb, but unmasked, steps in to save Alberto. The coin is shown laying on the ground, heads up. Batman fights Two-face, but eventually knocks him out.

Selina is walking out of the building with Alberto, when she tells him they are siblings, and that she plans on killing him. He attempts to escape, and nearly falls out of a window. Batman is able to shoot a grapple around Albertos legs and catch him, but Selina immediately goes to cut the wire with her claws. She has found out that if she kills Alberto that she will inherit the millions that the Falcone family has. In a final attempt to stop her from killi

 

^^

Just bring back the Governor Of California! There will be a freeze in Gotham. Chill out!

J/K I like that. Who knows though. I mean after BB I wondered just what they would do with Joker. I knew it would be cool no matter what begins they had done so well.

 

Sn4tch, I enjoy the set-up, and the introduction of the players, but the meat of the outline is thin, and the ending is a non-event. There needs to be a lot more at stake, and it needs to open out more, to continue in the sprawling style of BB and TDK. The base idea is there -- mob war with Selina and Two-Face in the mix -- and I won't be surprised if the premise of the next film is similar.

 

Of course, I know. It's really an outline, of course I would want people to really end up liking Selina, much like she is in the comics. She's fun, sexy, but really likable and someone you can actually see Batman being happy with. With that ending I would really want the main push to be that feeling you get at the end of every great Batman story, where there's no happy ending, but Batman must endure.

If I was more into fan-fic I would probably write it out more.

 

For someone who hasn't read the Knightfall storyline, would introducing Bane as a villain be a good idea? Batman having his back broken would be a hell of a cliffhanger to the third film

 

It's still too early in Batman's career to introduce Bane. Bane shouldn't come around until Batman has been established in Gotham for many years (in-universe).

 

If Two-Face is still alive, I would want him to be the main villain of the third film. The Joker aside, Two-Face has always been one of my favorites, and I think there's a lot left to cover with the character. On top of that, Aaron Eckhart did a great job portraying the character, and I'd like to see what he could do with the character.

As far as other villains are concerned, my top pics would be Catwoman (one of Batman's greatest love stories) and The Riddler (one of my favorites).

Personally, I've always wanted to see No Man's Land depicted on-screen, and I think that would be the best thing for Batman 3. The Joker and what he did to Gotham in TDK was devastating to the city and its citizens, and I think the only way to top that would be the incorporation of No Man's Land into the plot. Have it be a catastrophe of epic proportions because of the earthquake. Have Two-Face trying to bring his own form of justice into the devastated city. Have Arkham Asylum's criminals escape (I know its cliched, but its also effective) and possibly incorporate Blackgate Prison into it. The city would be in chaos, Batman would return to try and restore order, and he must face Two-Face and his rampage.

Further more, have the Joker return.

I feel nobody can repeat or outdo Heath Ledger's performance, but I think the character is too important to Batman and TDK to have him disappear. Have another actor play the part (Johnny Depp's my pick) and have him confront both Batman and Two-Face one more time.

Maybe an earthquake hitting Gotham would be too depressing, considering all the chaos that happens in BB and TDK to the city, but I'd love to see it on-screen.

 

Hmmm...going with an adaptation of No Man's Land might be a cool idea.

Obviously, one of the key points Begins made-and that The Dark Knight reinforced, IMO is that the film Batman isn't always going to be around forever and ever; only until he's decided that he's no longer needed.

Now, if say, that point was actually reached in film # 3, and Batman more or less retired at the end of the film, then a splendid 4th film would be a combination of Cataclysm/No Man's Land and The Dark Knight Returns. Heck, we could even see the Mutants and the Sons of the Batman.

 

I am so glad that none of you have anything to do with the third movie.

 

While you're waiting on Batman 3 go check this out Batman and Iron-Man

 

Here, clickable

 

QFT.

No, there are some interesting ideas out there, but honestly I don't see why people have to expand everything beyond a third film. People here seem to love setting up sequels, rather than making a film which is a pay-off to past films. All the conversation seems to be about is "this happens in film 3, which is a sweet set up for film 4". What happened to "TDK left us in the perfect place for film 3 to be this".

I mean at this stage it's an assumption that there will be a film 3, no matter what you've read in the magazines or on the internet. If Nolan says no, Bale says no. And if they don't have those two, in my eyes, it's not worth bothering with. I almost want them to leave it at TDK, just to buck the trend of franchises.

And NO, that doesn't mean do a reboot. It's been three years since this franchise started, I can't believe some people are calling for a reboot. Ditto Spider-man. Maybe it's not so bad here, but at SHH! it's a joke.

 

Oops. I had the impression that a 3rd film was pretty much a done deal.

Anyway:

Robin And Why He's cool

?Take the time to tell the story properly,? Loeb said. ?There is a story of Dick Grayson and how he becomes Robin that is extremely moving and very helpful. ?

[Grayson/Robin] doesn?t understand why it is that he needs to do this and Bruce doesn?t understand why he?s doing it either because he?s not a parent. He doesn?t know how to be a parent,? Loeb said. ?And together, they make each other better people. So that for me would be the next step.?

Right now, Robin is considered to be a hex for the series due to Joel Schumacher?s legendary wack-job with the character/costumes. Combined with Robin?s oft-pubescent, effete depiction, he automatically seems like a flamboyant anomaly to Nolan?s world of hardboiled crime staked in realistic technology and sophistication. Of course, Nolan?s take on Robin would certainly not resemble anything like the admittedly biased image above, but Robin would still prove a creative challenge to adapt unlike any other character in his mythology. Oddly enough, Bale stated back in 2005 that one of his favorite Batman comics was Dark Victory, in which Robin plays a considerable role?

Right now, Robin is considered to be a hex for the series due to Joel Schumacher?s legendary wack-job with the character/costumes. Combined with Robin?s oft-pubescent, effete depiction, he automatically seems like a flamboyant anomaly to Nolan?s world of hardboiled crime staked in realistic technology and sophistication. Of course, Nolan?s take on Robin would certainly not resemble anything like the admittedly biased image above, but Robin would still prove a creative challenge to adapt unlike any other character in his mythology. Oddly enough, Bale stated back in 2005 that one of his favorite Batman comics was Dark Victory, in which Robin plays a considerable role?

?But the two [Batman stories] that I liked particularly were Dark Victory and The Long Halloween. They just had some really fantastic imagery in there of the severity of Batman and everything and I would kind of imitate those positions.?

There?s speculation that The Daily Mail falsely attributed the Robin diss to Bale; however, it?s equally as likely that Bale simply browsed through various graphic novels sent to him by DC (as he informed fans in the link above) with casual interest. As it stands, Bale hates Robin. Haha. If the third film is indeed the last, might it seem strange to have entirely overlooked such a well recognized part of canon? While /Film doesn?t wish to see Robin appear in any form, Loeb does make a nice and knowing effort to illustrate how it could be done tastefully?

?I wouldn?t let him become Robin until the third act, if that. I think that?s the other problem when you tell that story is that there?s this rush to put him in a costume by the end of the first 20 minutes and in that case I think it?s a disaster??

Discuss: Do Loeb?s comments change your stance on the appropriateness/inclusion of Robin in a sequel to The Dark Knight? Is it worth the risk and if so, how old would Robin need to be for it to work? What do you make of Bale?s compliments to Dark Victory but dislike for Robin?


~~~

Personally, I think the gripe about "But Schumaker ruined teh character so it won't work in the new movies!!" is nonsense, especially when viewed that Batman Forever (not flamboyantly gay, but certainly stupid) and The Dark Knight share Two-Face. Audiences are smart enough to understand the obvious difference between Schumaker and Nolan's characters.

And as Loeb is primarily responsible (along with Tim Sale) for one of my four or five favorite comic panels of all time, I'd say he knows what he's talking about.

 

Loeb (IMO) renders his own opinion null and void with his work on Batman. Loeb's Batman tries to be edgy like Miller's, but comes across as blunt and stubborn.

I personally don't care how many times it gets rationalized or modernized or Nolan-ized; Robin would be too much for the series. Bringing him in negates the theme of isolation and seclusion Nolan's made for Batman, something that TDK made big in a big way. Throwing Robin into the mix would make him nothing more than a sidekick, which in a skilled writer's hands does not happen (as far as the comics go), but this is a serious film about Batman. Adding a teenager to the mix? Not cool.

 

I think Robin could work in these movies fine. Remember having Robin isn't so much to give Batman a sidekick, but to put him in the role of surrogate, which is interesting.

 

"Oops. I had the impression that a 3rd film was pretty much a done deal."

Well according to the folks over at Warners...

Link.


Hopefully this will put an end to rumors like: "Johnny Depp will be the next Joker or Riddler" "Angelina Jolie is Catwoman" or the latest to hit the Aol hompage, "Cher tapped as Bale's new catwoman"...

I keep sayin' it, Nolan isn't even thinkin' about the Bat right now. He's tryin' to get away from it. He deserves to, for a while. And this article seems to show that the studios are actually waiting on Nolan to even consider moving ahead. Smart on their part.


-T_S_R

 

Sounds good to me.

I've always loved Tim Burton's Batman films. But I think Christopher Nolan's films are the definitive version of Batman. Even if not fully faithful to the comics, its captured the spirit of what Batman should be.

So if he waits a long time to make the third one, that's fine. I just want it to be good.

 

After watching Sweeney Todd, my thoughts on Tim Burton has changed.

Tim Burton is a crazy man. There has to be a fine line between art and just craziness. Sweeney Todd is supposed to be a musical. Movies like the West Side Story, or The Wizard of Oz, where the characters dance, this is the missing musical element in Sweeney Todd. Horrible attempt at making a musical by Tim Burton.

Anyway, despite the fact that the first Batman movies is marvelous....

 

damn that Tim Burton! Why didn't he stick to a formula that's been used for decades?! How dare he not make a formulaic musical?! HOW DARE HE?!?!

 

The creator of Sweeney Todd, Stephen Sondheim, who knows a thing or too about musicals (duh) I might add, was absolutely thrilled with what Tim did with Sweeney Todd. He said this publicly over and over and over in interviews, and did so enthusiastically. He also says this and goes into some detail about it, in the DVD special features. I think if Tim met the EXTREMELY high standards of Stephen Sondheim, a man known for being very critical and intensely opinionated as well as a legendary talent in his own right, I think Tim did his job well.

I've heard a lot of criticism of the film, but DANCING??? Not enough dancing means it's not a MUSICAL? The film is about 80% MUSIC!!!

Sondheim strongly agreed with Tim that you don't transfer a broadway musical to film literally and exactly, you have to make some appropriate changes to make it cinematic, to fit a different medium. One of the reasons so many bad films have been made out of musicals is because directors didn't do that.

Anyway, this is the Dark Knight thread. Enough of Sweeney here.

 

[image=http://www.prolifecorner.com/plc/plcwebpics/aug08/billboardwhy.jpg]

Heh.

 

Wow.

 

That would almost be funny in a sick way if the billboard had actually been painted and not just photo shopped.

Gives me an idea though....

-T_S_R