Solo The Darth Maul Cameo

I mean, I think Serafinowicz is way better. I hated Witwer's version in TCW, thought it was hack work.

What LFL did has no real weight with me when deciding who is better, I don't care what they did or what they said. They're perfectly capable of being wrong, mistaken, or of having inferior taste. I don't care what's canon, either.

You're also underestimating the impact that one line made leading up to TPM's release. I don't remember much about the build up, I don't follow that sort of thing. Just about the only thing I do remember is Serafinowicz's voice leading into Duel of the Fates. It was in the freaking music video and everything, which even stayed #1 on MTV's Total Request Live for a number of weeks. People who are old enough to remember when TPM was released remember that one line. It was huge. People even remember the lines about "fear" that were in promotions but weren't even in the movie.

I could argue that Serafinowicz had way more impact on mass audience, as he was the voice in TPM, which at the time was the second highest grossing movie of all time...and Witwer was the voice in a cartoon that couldn't come close to matching the audience for TPM. A lot of Star Wars fans don't even know TCW exists, as a lot of people are movie only fans.

In any case I certainly prefer Serafinowicz, regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.

 

Is this the Twilight Zone? I feel like I'm talking to quicksand.

You used the analogy of the original Palpatine in ESB and the SE's replacement of that Palpatine with McDiarmid. I was saying that it's a faulty analogy because Lucas didn't replace Maul's original voice (Serafinowicz) with Witwer's voice (as he did with Boba Fett, for example). I obviously wasn't suggesting that Lucas should have done that. I was pointing out the important difference in those two examples.

Why not be honest and simply say that you prefer Witwer's voice, rather than try to construct a dubious claim that Witwer's voice is "more Maul than the original?" It's not. It's just a voice you prefer. And others don't.

Conversation closed.

 

I don't know guys, I think at this point it does not matter about the voice, maybe 8 or more years ago but not now.

If they felt Serafinowicz was better than they would've used him. It may of been a close call toss up kinda thing who knows . But at this point in time I don't see how how Peter's voice is as important as you're making it out to be by 2018 especially after Witwer took over the voice work and carried the character in animation & video game form for a number of years to the present. Its not like Peter's voice is the equivalent of James Earl Jones' voice for Darth Vader, maybe it could've been but its not. I would say Witwer has a better claim to that kinda thing. When people think of Darth Maul they don't think of his voice, they think of Ray Park and his moves, action & screen presence and the overall menacing look of the character but not the voice.

As it is, Witwer's voice work in SOLO(not counting TCW or Rebels) was memorable & menacing and worked very well and even superior to Peter's in TPM. I think they made the right choice. If they were gonna use Peter then they should've used his voice for TCW or got Stanton to do his impression of Serafinowcz's Maul which he did for the old Battlefront II game. Many different actors did the voice for Maul, Sidious and even Vader through the years but only Witwer and Jones really embody their respective character's voices .

 

No, actually I feel like I am talking to quicksand.

You started the conversation by jumping on this post of mine, which specifically says ''imo'', which means what I prefer, I don't need to repeat myself again and again.

And I explained it to you why the second one is more like Maul, it doesn't need to be the first to be an original voice, the original voice is what the producers decided, it doesn't need an edited version, they are both similar but Witwer's version is a better one, not sure why you fail to understand this simple explanation.

Serafinowicz's single line was cold and emotionless, while Witwer's voice was like a true Sith Lord. Why they didn't see any reason to change later? Easy, it's just a ONE LINE. It's too short. It doesn't even make any difference at all even if you change it or not.

You can't go and say Serafinowicz's voice defines Maul's voice, you can't define it with one line, it's not enough.
Witwer had enough time to develop it, and he made it better, more suitable and as a result he was the voice of Maul in the next movie, not Serafinowicz.

You can prefer his voice (not sure how you can like it with one line but ok), and I think Witwer's version is what Maul's voice should be like, it's a better one.

 

I kinda don't see them redubbing TPM but its possible down the road. But I guess if the different voices bother some, perhaps one was the younger version and then a post Naboo battle damaged Maul - where his voice could've became heavily imbued with the Dark Side and he matured. Palpatine/Sidious used more than one voice even as Sidious in the PT as he had a pre-disfigured voice when speaking to Dooku, Maul ect - although TCW for whatever reason gave him the disfigured voice prior to his disfigurement as his "evil angry Sith voice" am sure his protege Darth Maul whom he raised as a youngling/padawan/Sith Apprentice had a "Dark Side voice" as well .

Witwer did some very good voice work for Maul and other characters in a semi-official capacity for publicity for that Darth Maul:Lockdown book, I recommend checking out the clips.

 

Irrelevant to the current discussion, but some of that dialogue is just hilarious in hindsight :

Yeah, right.

KENOBIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII !

 

Being cut in half and then surviving through sheer will completely broke Maul. He went mad. His mind was shattered. By the time he's put back together the calm controlled demeanor Maul had in The Phantom Menace is gone for good.

 

Witwer overacts in everything he’s in, including Battlestar Galactica.

 

11-12 years went by while he was Lotho Minor, that is a lot of time in isolation and survival mode on a very inhospitable & deadly planet where food was scarce. But he was very much alive and put himself back together using the Force to create his first cybernetic lower body while his mind was still intact. Luke had mental health issues too he was gonna light himself on fire along with the tree in TLJ until Yoda intervened. Force sensitives in exile often suffer from PTSD as mental scars are often worse than physical . Talzin healed successfully healed his mind on TCW . And he very much calm and controlled in SOLO.

 

It’s also Witwer’s fake British accent, which isn’t very good.

 

I really wouldn't say that. He is obviously very angry, not calm. He is close to losing it but he instead uses laughter to control his anger and then starts with the lightsabre and creepy threats. I don't think Maul could ever be calm again, like he was on the balcony in TPM.

 

That's the point, Maul should be like that even in TPM. He isn't even listening Sidious's orders to not confront with the Jedi in the new canon, and he risks their exposure when Sidious wasn't ready with the Trade Federation or the Senate.



Jedi: ''The shadow holds a great rage... Constrained... But so deep it might swallow you whole.''



Maul has waited a long time for that confrontation in TPM, like Sidious waited in RotS, as he says to Yoda;



Maul's line in TPM, should've been like this;



I think Serafinowicz's version is a little cold for Maul, while Witwer's version is perfect.

 

Maul's dialogue delivery in TPM was delivered when he was causally speaking to his Master, he was the student. He did not speak to anybody else nor was he in a situation where he needed to raise his voice and verbally assault someone or go a rave cause of plot and acting called for it. And by the time of SOLO he was his own person where's even mirthful .

All Sith Lords are all prone to agitation since thats what they do and are , always angry and ready to unleash it on their victims whether verbally or physically or both. Even Jedi lose their calm and control from TCW or PT, films, probably cause they're human or human-like mortals,lol.



Maul's personality remained the same in canon as seen from Marvel's pre TPM comics where it matches up with TCW/Rebels and SOLO.

 

That’s so awful. Witwer’s cheesy overacting is just terrible. That scene in TPM is 100 times worse with that horribly cartoonish fan edit. The actual scene in TPM feels like Star Wars, while the fan edit feels like something from He Man or the Power Rangers. I need to unsee and unhear it, as just the thought of it irritates me.

 

I agree, that is awful. I think because it removes the fact that he has developed as a character. That edit deletes young Darth Maul who is eager to fight the jedi and please his master, a Darth Maul that hates the Jedi and wants revenge only because he has been taught to. It instead inserts the character of old Maul, an unhinged being that wants revenge for what was done to him, his hate and anger now personal, especially for Obi-wan. He is now mad, and I think why the over the top cartoonish acting works for the character in TCW/Rebels/Solo.

Darth Maul = Serafinowicz
Maul = Witwer
You can't switch them around.

 

Agreed. Maul's delivery is pitch perfect in The Phantom Menace. As the student he needs to chill. And he has so much menace in the few lines he gives without giving anything away. Maul looks like nightmare, but we really don't know what he can do. He seems like he is all business without being arrogant. He seems very deadly like sharped weapon. He never even speaks during the Duel.

@Erkan12 - I really dig the dubbed over version of Maul in Phantom Menace you posteed. But I think Maul is way to impertinent with Sidious. No way Sidious lets that slide. Even in The Clone Wars when Sidious shows up to confront Maul, Maul is not impertinent. His first reaction is to feign weakness and say all he did was in service of his old Master.

I really like how different Maul sounds when shows up on The Clone Wars. It clearly shows how different he is than when we last saw him.

He's totally deadpan in The Phantom Menace, there are no tells that give away his deeper feelings when he's speaking. It's to the point and totally on the level. Even in Solo you hear so much emotion in Maul's voice. That pain of holding himself together for 10 years is still there and still bubbles over in his emotions. The laughter sounds like a touch of madness. It's scary but also shows some weakness. TPM Maul doesn't laugh. TPM Maul doesn't show weakness.

I think both voices together create one amazing character arch.

 

Well pain doesn't make them weaker, it makes them stronger. Maul even developed a higher pain threshold by SOD, after repeated Force Lightning torture. Pain, Hate, Anger ect makes guys like Maul and Vader stronger, its what enabled them to survive for as long as they did and how they did, mythological characters.

Snoke laughed and Sidous laughed all the time especially during deadly duels, even when fighting and almost getting killed during the Yoda duel in ROTS film . Sith Lords or Sith Master-like characters do laugh, they are already quite mad since they are all ruthless killers and sadistic villains - Maul would be no different.

Different actors voiced the character and at different stages of their lives even - its not unlike different actors performing the the same character each will have their own mark. I don't think Witwer's intention was to replicate Peter's take on TCW(am sure he could have) but just act, or in some cases over act, but it got him awards for his work. It is after all his job and bread and butter. Playing the character void of emotion and urbane would not go very far for long as Maul is not a robot, not even in his past prior to TPM was he always "calm" and "control".

As I said though, Maul remains basically the same from pre-TPM to SOLO. He's more mature and of course carrying hs own baggage just like anybody else would and is. However his personality, including his evil laughter/mirth , bloodlust, skill, calm, cold calculating planing, patience, rage are all consistent attributes even if complicated because Maul is a complicated character and one filled with the Dark Side. This character is a living weapon a killing machine and filled with hate and all that kinda thing cause that was his training and source of power. Witwer's delivery is identical to Star Wars: Darth Maul and Star Wars: Age of the Republic Darth Maul both of which take place before TPM and what we've seen in TCW/Rebels.

From what I remember Maul often smirked and made evil faces at the Jedi in TPM to agitate them and make them fearful, to weaken them. He often used taunts and psychological warfare & abuse on his enemies/prey - its a form of warfare even in the ancient to modern real world.

 

That’s a great way to look at it. I still prefer the cool-headed Maul voice juxtaposed against his wild look, but can accept the “he’s held together by almost constant anger and hate” after TPM.

By the way, and I say this only for future reference, it’s character “arc,” not “arch.” I see this a lot and just thought I’d point it out this time.

 

Maul was always like that. There are no changes. And you can't say Maul has changed due to his injury, because Maul didn't heal by himself or come from death by himself, Talzin helped her and healed his mind. She basically removed all that madness by using her magicks, that's why she lost a considerable power after fixing Maul's mind and his legs.

TPM Maul is the same guy who tried to kill Sidious after Sidious taunting him by saying that there is another apprentice. Maul is the same guy who didn't listen Sidious's words and went to kill a Jedi padawan on his own. Yes there are some wrong EU versions as well, some writers believed that Maul was an obedient assassin,-as if he was a Jedi Knight- they were %100 wrong and now those materials are legends -non canon- , now Maul has the same character as he didn't listen his master and Sidious later says that it's natural considering the nature of the Sith which is born from defiance, a Sith can't be a true Sith without being defiant. Any other version of an obedient and loyal Sith is just a crap that comes from the writers who knows nothing about the Star Wars. They should create a droid if they wanted an obedient assassin, like General Grievous was, that's not a Sith Lord.

Indeed.



I guess people don't realize Maul is actually laughing here due to his red black face .





Comics makes it more obvious.

 

Comics are exaggerated by nature. The less exaggerated Maul from TPM is superior in every way to Witwer’s.

 

Original - "present or existing from the beginning; first or earliest"

 

Then Ian Mcdiarmid isn't the original Emperor, too bad.

 

Good! And while we are at it JL and HC are not the original Anakin and bring back the original Boba Fett voice!

 

That is ridiculous. You are saying someone like James Luceno knows nothing about Star Wars and that the Darth Plagueis novel was 100% wrong about Darth Maul's character. You are saying Dark Horse's awesome (and far superior to the recent Marvel efforts) Star Wars: Darth Maul from 2000 was 100% wrong by using the character that was seen in TPM. No, I think the new Disney EU is 100% wrong in taking the resurected Maul from TCW an inserting the same character into pre TPM times. It implies that his character hasn't developed though his ordeals, that nothing has effected him mentally.

 

Yes, Luceno didn't know anything about Maul. And Plagueis novel was %100 wrong about Maul's character. That's a fact.

Maul was a scheming mastermind.

''A deadly, agile Sith Lord trained by the evil Darth Sidious, Darth Maul was a formidable warrior and scheming mastermind.''
- Starwars.com/Databank/darth-maul

Maul was always smart, which comes from Lucas.

''He was a well trained apprentice and that he would start to do the things that he trained to do, to build armies, to deceive people, create a power base for himself. So George came up with the idea of teaming up Maul with the Mandalorians. But all parts are showing that Maul isn't just a brute force, but he is also being smart, he is building a power base, he is doing kind of Sidious did with the senate.''
- Dave Filoni, StarWars.com/Shadows of the Sith

Lucas didn't work with EU, he only worked with Filoni and his crew, so yes, some EU writers didn't know anything about Maul.