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PT The date of when Anakin becomes a Jedi Knight

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Erkan12, May 14, 2020.

  1. Erkan12

    Erkan12 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2013
    It looks like it's canon that Anakin has become a Jedi Knight in the Clone Wars 22 BBY, it's the same date with AotC - Episode II. Which means that Anakin has become a Jedi Knight when he was just 19 years old.

    Do you guys think it was too early for Anakin? And especially when we know that he wasn't emotionally and mentally ready? Even in AotC, Anakin's own master Kenobi states that Anakin is not ready to take a mission on his own;

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    I think this is one of the mistakes that the Jedi Council has done during the PT era. It was too early for Anakin to become a Jedi Knight during the Clone Wars.

    And we also know that in Episode I, Kenobi was 25 years old as Qui-Gon's apprentice. Not only he was 6 years older than Anakin in Episode II. Even in Episode III, Kenobi was still 3 years older than Episode III Anakin (22 years old), and Kenobi was still a padawan in Episode I (although he becomes a Jedi knight at the end of Episode I). And Kenobi was mentally and emotionally in better shape than Anakin. If you have to choose one of them, you would choose Episode I Kenobi to become a Jedi Knight, not Episode II Anakin.
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    According to the AOTC novelization at least, he'd just turned 20. I'd agree that his promotion was probably rushed a bit due to the war.
     
  3. Emperor Ferus

    Emperor Ferus Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2016
    Most sources place his birthdate as 41 BBY or 41.9 BBY, but I'd say late 42 BBY seems right.

    Did he turn ten during the events of TPM?
     
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  4. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Not that I know of - in the novelization a point was made of how he would turn ten at some point next year. I think it was more a case of the gap between TPM and AOTC being ten and a big bit years, rather than almost exactly ten years.
     
  5. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    Anakin being knighted happened after the events of AOTC, but within that same year, so yeah, I'd say 19-20 years old. This is something that was retconned with the introduction of TCW. Anakin had to be a Jedi knight to have a padawan, otherwise I don't know if he actually attained the rank of knight at age 19-20.
     
  6. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I always figured Anakin was made a Knight right at the same time Ahsoka was assigned as his Padawan, and when they needed Anakin to serve as a General in the Clone Wars. He would've needed to be at least a Knight to do both of those things. I think the needs of the war, coupled with what the Jedi council knew about his abilities is what convinced them to (albeit reluctantly) promote him to Knight. I thought I read somewhere that they did this with several padawans his age/skill level.

    Honestly, I don't see how keeping him as a Padawan all thru the years of the clone wars would've helped at all, in terms of his ability or even the risk of him turning to the darkside. In fact it would've hindered many successes Anakin was actually able to accomplish during the war. So ultimately the Jedi council decided it would be more risky to not have him help in the war as a knight than to prevent him from growing during this crucial time.

    Based on what we saw in TCW, I feel that he did well as a Jedi Knight. There were only certain periods/events where he let his obsession and anger get the best of him. IMO keeping him a Padawan wouldn't have prevented this-it would've possibly even made it worse!
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  7. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    I dont know the exact sources, but I remember it was believed Anakin turned 10 by the time of the celebration at the end of TPM when he has the braid.

    http://www.yodasdatapad.com/ages.html
    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Forum:Anakin's_age?useskin=oasis

    Here are some discussions on it.

    In canon, Anakin is one year younger than Legends. Anakin was 20 in AOTC and 23 in ROTS, but now he is 19 and 22, respectively.

    Also TCW movie was set a year after AOTC in 21 BBY in Legends, but now is set roughly 2 months after AOTC.

    I think the 2003 microseries had the best dating for Anakin's transition from Jedi Padawan to Knight. TCW skips a lot of Anakin's character development and just has him grow into his ROTS persona way too quickly but the Dark Horse Republic comics knighted him very late into the war (20/19 BBY). The 03 series implies Anakin's knighting was around 21 BBY which I think works best.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  8. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2014
    It's funny, I don't see how keeping a padawan would have hurt him. He was an insubordinate little brat, as well as entitled, and selfish, and had basically ignored the majority of his teachings. I don't feel he earned the rank of knight, nor having his own padawan. That said, the turn to the dark side would have happened either way, so it's really splitting hairs, but until Anakin started showing he was following his teachings, I would have kept him as a padawan. I do agree his being made a Jedi knight was out of necessity, but it doesn't necessarily mean he earned the title.
     
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  9. devilinthedetails

    devilinthedetails Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2019
    I would agree that AOTC Anakin doesn't seem like a strong candidate for Jedi Knighthood precisely because of his struggles with emotional control, which I think was what Obi-Wan was trying to teach him more so than any Force powers at that point. I also echo the thoughts of those who believe that a factor in Anakin's knighthood was the necessity of having more Jedi Knights to fight in the Clone Wars and lead troops into battle.

    That being said, I also believe that the very process of fighting in the war could have matured Anakin considerably in a relatively short period of time, which is part of why he might have been elevated to the rank of Jedi Knight so swiftly after the Clone Wars breaks out on Geonosis. Taken as a whole, the events of AOTC, losing his mother, marrying Padme, losing his hand to Count Dooku, and having to fight in a war, should have a significant sobering and maturing impact on Anakin. The film ends before we can see that full impact, but we can perhaps imagine that growth continuing to occur off-screen as a result of these pivotal and transforming events. I would bet that Anakin post-Geonosis is a much more mature person as he is in the beginning of ROTS, and it is possible that he matures into his early ROTS self fairly quickly after the formative events of AOTC.

    Apart from that, I would say that one of the key differences between TPM Obi-Wan and AOTC Anakin is that TPM Obi-Wan doesn't seem to resent being Qui-Gon's Padawan and receiving Qui-Gon's guidance (if anything, I think he gives Anakin a bitter glare during the Council scene in TPM because he's feeling a bit jealous and threatened by Anakin because he doesn't want Anakin to replace him as Qui-Gon's Padawan, something that perhaps Anakin later mistakenly attributes to Obi-Wan being at least partially jealous of his powers, which I don't think is ever the case) whereas Anakin does seem to chafe at being Obi-Wan's Padawan and being subject to Obi-Wan's authority. He even rants to Padme about how Obi-Wan is holding him back. A student's feeling that a teacher is holding him back would be toxic for any mentoring relationship. It wouldn't surprise me if Obi-Wan can sense some of that and maybe decides that counterintuitively he might be in a better spot to guide Anakin if that source of resentment were sort of removed from their relationship if Anakin were Knighted. In ROTS, I think we see an Anakin who is actually more open to Obi-Wan's guidance and more respectful of Obi-Wan generally even when they disagree. Also, although Anakin has his suspicions about the Council and feels that the Council is holding him back, he is shown to be capable of distinguishing between Obi-Wan and the Council in the scene where they say what turns out to be their final farewell when Obi-Wan leaves to hunt Grevious. In that scene, it'c clear that Anakin is capable of voicing appreciation for Obi-Wan's training to Obi-Wan and of apologizing to Obi-Wan in a way we never would've seen from his AOTC self. So, I don't know that Obi-Wan's thought process in that regard would've been entirely wrong. It actually seems kind of on the right track to me.

    Did the Council make the mistake of Knighting Anakin too early? Ultimately, Anakin at the beginning of ROTS seems much more mature than his AOTC self and worthy of being a Jedi Knight in my opinion, so in that way it's difficult for me to say the Council Knighted him too early even if he did end up falling to the Dark Side. That's just my two cents of course[face_dunno]
     
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  10. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    I believe keeping him a Padawan with the obvious abilities and strategic capabilties he had would've made him rebel eventually. It would essentially be making withholding a promotion more of just a mere punishment rather than a wise decision that would ultimately help on a grander scale in the war. That reason would be incredibly narrow-minded, with the galaxy in a state where they need him. Although I do agree he would've turned to the Darkside either way.

    I get what you're saying about his having not earned the rank though, in terms of behavior. He definitely didn't-but in terms of ability and cunning? He definitely was ready to act with the authority of a Knight-and like I said, he proved he was good as a Knight during the clone wars, with the exception of just a few instances.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  11. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 13, 2014
    While I don't entirely agree, I don't disagree either. It was really a catch-22 for the Jedi council when it came to Anakin. Not making him a knight would have led to him rebelling, but making him a knight too soon further fed to his sense of power and entitlement. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Either way, his turn was just a matter of time.
     
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  12. eko32eko7

    eko32eko7 Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 10, 2018
    Agreed!!
     
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  13. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Right. I mean, let's think-what would've happened if the war wouldn't have gone on, or been on such a large scale? He would've likely stayed a Padawan for several more years. And he would've hated it. I felt this whole time that restraining his growth the way the Jedi council did ultimately was a contributing factor in his growing distrust of the Jedi order. This reached a boiling point when it was made clear to him that the only reason he was given a seat on the council was not cos they thought he deserved it, but cos they wanted to use him as a spy against Palpatine. Imagine being in a job where you are great at it but they don't approve a promotion/raise/title change. But then they only promote you (reluctantly) cos the manager you would have in that new position is under investigation, so they only want you there to secretly observe him/her. Oh, and you're promoted, but without the pay. Would you stay with that company? I wouldn't.

    Ultimately though I agree, either way the end result would be the same. I've been trying to avoid using this cliché phrase, but I'm out of other ideas, so here we go: The Jedi council chose the "lesser of two evils."
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  14. Ben-Solo

    Ben-Solo Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Episode II - Anakin Skywalker

    I’d assume his ascension to Jedi Knight was done with heavy consideration. First, the need for the Republic to have more Jedi Generals (a Padawan can only be a Commander) and by promoting Anakin they get another General on the battlefield thus allowing Obi-Wan and him to be split up more.

    Second, by promoting him it’s a show of confidence by the Council and (Republic); while I don’t have canonical proof I also believe the Council was given a nudge by the Supreme Chancellor. Palpatine influence over Anakin and the Council cannot be overlooked.

    At the point we lose Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan is before the Council and is a Jedi Knight, and took Anakin as his Padawan. So in fact by the end of The Phantom Menace Obi-Wan is a Jedi Knight.
     
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  15. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 13, 2014
    The biggest issue in all of this isn't what the council does or does not do. It's what Anakin does or does not do. His maturity, or lack there of, is the biggest cause for most of his turn. In regards to being promoted or not, if you're (not you personally) overlooked for a promotion at work, do you pout about it and then quit? Do you work harder to prove you deserve the promotion? Your maturity will dictate which path you choose. If Anakin was passed over for knighthood, the onus would have been on him in handling the situation.
     
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  16. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I always assumed the council sent him on that mission with Padme to test him, which he failed miserably. Somewhere in the three years between AOTC and ROTS he seems to have become a Jedi. The book speaks of him being the hero of the Clone Wars.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2020
  17. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I thought he got knighted at the end of the war. Oops
     
  18. Darth Chuck Norris

    Darth Chuck Norris Jedi Master star 3

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    Sep 13, 2014
    As Anakin has his own division and is a general at the battle of Christophsis, which happens in 22bby, he had to have been knighted shortly after the end of the events in AOTC.
     
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  19. jc1138

    jc1138 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 16, 2004
    Having the Clone Wars last 10 years is much more satisfying to me, from Anakin's development to the state of the war and galaxy. I know "official" sources outside of the films state exact dates but I consider those to not necessarily be authoritative (and are often changed and retconned).