The "Deus ex Machina" Thread - A Moron's Guide to Better Storytelling. [Topic #2]

Protagonists, expositions, and subplots... oh my!

Various conversations in other threads (specifically, the loooong story thread and the I made this! thread) and a recent theatre class have had me hungering for a bit of in-depth discussion on various elements of storytelling. By "storytelling", I'm not referring to the actual writing, but all the other things that go into telling a story that people will want to read. This discussion doesn't really fit in those threads, because many storytelling elements aren't limited to world-building or supersized works of literature.

So, if you'd like to join me in gaining a more in-depth knowledge about storytelling that can be applied to stories of any size or genre, then by all means don your thinking cap and pull up a comfy pixel to camp out. This thread is for both novices and experts, so newbies and literature professors are all welcome.

Hello. I'm Arin, and I'm a Storytelling Moron.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm *not* an expert writer or a master of the craft, but I'd *like* to improve. Most of the topics we'll be discussing here will be gleaned from whatever I can find and whatever you suggest, so feel free to PM me if you have a specific element you'd like to see added to the topic list.

We'll be running the entire spectrum of elements here, including the following:


Dramatic Elements
- Action (no, not blasters and X-Wings)
- Climax
- Climactic and episodic structure
- Complications, obstacles, and crises
- Dramatic purpose / theme
- Exposition
- Opposing forces and balance
- Plot and plot contrivances
- Subplot

Characters
- Antagonists and protagonists
- Conflict
- Dialogue
- Dominant trait
- Extraordinary characters
- Minor, representative, and stock characters


I'd like to keep the discussion as genre-, and length-, and character-agnostic as possible, but certain elements will naturally tend to favor certain types of stories, and that's okay. We'll probably have an occasional challenge here and there as well.

Thread policy: This is not a place to drop a link to your latest fic and say it relates to the topic. Unless the link is requested as part of an exercise, it will be considered advertising and frowned upon and we'll sacrifice our monitors upon the altar of 'Fic to place an Unfortunate Typo Curse upon you.

TOPICS:
#1: Dramatic Purpose / Theme (this post)
#2: Plot

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With that, I'd like to open the thread up to the first topic of discussion, which is an easy one:

[hl=#ff8][b][color=#30a]Dramatic Purpose / Theme[/color][/b][/hl]

[b]Why[/b] are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in [color=#30a]ten words or less[/color]. Can you do it?

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

 

Great idea for a thread.

I always work with some greater message when writing (even if I don't know what it is beforehand), because without one it seems to me that it's just words for words sake. Usually, it ends up being quite a few different messages and I like to be ambiguous enough to where that message can be interpreted in different ways, that way no one is turned off by a particular approach to an idea that they read in a story of mine.

 

Great thread. When someone asks me if I'm a writer, I say no because I honestly think of myself more as a storyteller. I love to convey emotions and events and characters; writing happens to be the cheapest and most accessible medium available to me.

I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

*looks at sig* Love. It?s there always, even in the dark times.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

I find that I start fics to entertain ? ?oh, wouldn?t it be cool to have this happen, how would the characters behave, etc.? ? and sort of work themes and meanings in around it based on what?s going to happen. I don?t immediately start with trying to prove some point. I try to have an overall theme and several sub themes (i.e. in my other fic, To Stop the Suns from Setting, is about learning to deal with changes and making the right decisions in times of change, but it also hints at the destructive nature of alcohol) and I try to keep a mental list of them, making sure that everything has been wrapped up by the end.

Sometimes meanings are inherent without me knowing about it, too. Obaona wrote an essay (crazy girl ) about the meaning of Eluding What Will Come and bought up parallels, themes, and meanings I wasn?t even aware of, but were most certainly true. So I think that, on some level, we are also interacting with the important themes that run rampant in our culture and drawing conclusions based on them, even subconsciously.

 

(whistles) If you don't have a reason why the heck are you writing in the first place. I ALWAYS have a reason to write something, mostly political or philosophical. In just about every story, I try at least, attempt to have a point, may it be to show that clones in the Imperial army are an impossibility. Or to show what could be the early rumblings of rebellion before the Rebel Alliance was formed. Or to show the effects of the change from the Republic to the Empire from the common people's point of view. Most of my stories are about concepts and then about proving said concepts.

(looks at sig) Oh easy, basic theme in 10 words. Challenge the system, even a little...

 

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

The first story in my bio is a vig about why an OC doesn't like Yoda. The reason I wrote it:

Because it was a vig prize for an Obi-Wan challenge. (10 words)

I'll try the second story - JA 4-poster about Aalto confronting Obi-Wan:

Wouldn't Aalto be really upset over Bruck's death? (8 words!)

A slightly longer answer might be that I saw something similar somewhere, didn't really like how it turned out, and decided to write my own version, which necessitated telling why Aalto would carry such a grudge against Obi-Wan for several years, what he would think of Bruck, etc etc etc. And it spawned more vigs about Aalto.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

A few of the vigs I've done, I wrote with no "point" in mind. I figured, hey, I'm folding laundry, I wonder if Jedi folded laundry. Hey, I have a headache, and I hate math... Any comedy bits or philosophical ruminations sort of wrote themselves. It often takes too much thinking to plan stuff like that.

For stuff like that, vigs and stories that are inspired by particular moments, I don't think you necessarily have to have a "purpose," at least not in the traditional sense. People can take whatever they want from the story, but I don't think you the author need to have a reason other than, "Oh, I thought it would be fun." Or something similar.

Sometimes people write just to write, just to get thoughts out in words. Sometimes that forms into deep stories, sometimes it's just fluff, sometimes heart-wrenching angst. And then you have stories with a "purpose" - i.e. "I want to write a ROTS AU where Anakin becomes Darth Vader but doesn't burn." Then, the purpose of the story might include, how does he not get burned, how does this story differ from ROTS, how does Obi-Wan deal with it, how does the galaxy fare, and so on. Maybe somewhere hidden in there is a deeper theme, something about masks and true faces (I don't know, I'm just making something up ).

When it comes to having a reason to write a story, I think there can also a difference between writing that story for yourself, and for your regular readers. For the former, you write what you feel, 'ship whom you want, kill anyone off. For the latter, you're tailoring the story to readers for whatever reasons - because you're fulfilling a request, or trying to make someone laugh. I think it's much easier to say for the former that you had a reason for crafting a particular theme, while with the former, you might have written it "just because." Or because you were struck by that ever mysterious explanation of "Because it felt right."

I'm rambling. I'll stop now.

 

Very interesting thread. Moron's guide...LOL. Yep, that fits me very well.

To your questions.
Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?
I write my stories because I cannot not write them. The darn bunnies just keep gnawing at my ankles until I give up and write them down. Then they go away. Sometimes, I look at the titles of the stories I've written and don't even remember what they were about.
Most of my stories are just that, stories about people or emotions or some insight I've had on the characters and situations of the SW universe. No hidden meanings at all.

However, in two of my stories, But and its sequel, they definitely had a message (see one below). I just used the SW universe to convey it and unfortunately, it fit darn well, too well.

Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less.
I have 2 in my sig.
One: Corporations grind their employees to dust. Fight back.
Second: A wish answered can lead to the death of hope.

You know, that was harder than I thought because usually I have more than one theme when telling a story, even in the short ones, even when I didn't realize it until you asked that question.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?
With the exception of one or two stories, not at all. The telling of it is the reason.

Edited for markups

 

In ten words or less? "There are always consequences for our actions." (Darkness story) People do things and don't seem to remember that SOMEWHERE, SOMEHOW, they will reap the rewards for their actions. They seem to operate under the delusion that they can do whatever they want and it will never come back and bite them in the butt. But it does, and it has big teeth!

But basically I wrote it because I liked the idea of a redeemed Anakin!

Great thread! Story-telling is sort of a tradition in our family. Lots of stories created for the children. Even my grandfather wrote a story for me when I was a baby. It was incredibly well done and I still have it even though he's gone now.

My mom used to write quite a bit and was always making up stories to tell me when she put me to bed. I did the same with my children, even wrote stories for them.

 

I saw the word "Moron" and had to come in.

Excellent, EXCELLENT idea for a thread, btw.


Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

Most definitely I have messages within the story based on what I feel about what's going on in the GFFA and what GL's messages might be within his story. Most of the reason why I suppose is that I like the main character I'm writing about and want to understand him and the whole GFFA better.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

To love is not wrong.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

I think a reason or underlying message in a story gives the story purpose. You have a goal to show why that message is true and you are using the story to reach that goal.

sg

 

Ooh, good topic.

Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

With my shorties, they tend to explore one very small, very specific aspect of whatever I'm writing about; one idea, self-contained (often AUs with just the one major difference from canon). I do them to let off steam and, let's be honest, so I don't have to spend tons of time on them. As for my only longer one, the themes take their cues a lot from the films: redemption, free will and its influence on characters doing good or evil. Also the idea of the Skywalkers as a family, and the similarities and differences between related people. But mainly to explore what would happen if one, big, decision we see in the movies went the other way.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

::checks sig:: SOTS? "Without darkness the light would have no meaning".

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

I guess I always have a reason - even if it is only, "What if?" The thing with 'What if?' stories is that often the central McGuffin is pretty incredible. So a lot of AU ideas come from the challenge of making something that comes completely out of left field seem perfectly reasonable. Ideally, not just reasonable but inevitable. There's other reasons, like touching on characters or aspects of characters we don't often see, or just wanting to tell a story.

I write because I like writing, not because I like being read.

Nem

 

As others said, great thread idea!

Why are you writing your story? I wrote it because I needed to. The plot nagged at me until I sat down and wrote it even though I still don't feel I did it justice.

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message? No message, just enjoyment. I never was a big person for sweeping themes and symbolism so I don't try to put those things into my writing. I guess I'm more a summer escapism type writer.

Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Um, well...A Father is almost always a hero in his son's eyes. Ok, technically that's eleven words, but it's close.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story? If by reason you mean having an all encompassing message to impart, then it's not important at all. But otherwise, I write/tell stories because it's a complusion. Even during times of writer's block I want to tell the story, even when the words won't come. Which tends to make me even more batty than normal.

 

Terrific idea for a discussion.

At the risk of being proven utterly wrong, I'm going to stick my next out here and proclaim that there are two main reasons why people write fiction:

1. To answer unanswered questions like "Why...?" or "How...?"
2. To explore "what if? (Subtext: "If only!")

The first one is the canon writer's approach, I'd venture.

I suspect that writers of AU tend to be motivated more by #2.

I started writing fanfics because the films left me with BIG questions that I eventually tried to answer myself. All of them boil down to one main question: How does a good little kid turn into Darth Vader?" Ten words exactly.

The answer is turning out to be awfully long...

 

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

My view is that if you try too hard to tell a message, it's going to get in the way of the story. It's better to concentrate on the characters and events and let the message come through subliminally.


Try to summarize why you are/were writing [the first fic in your bio] in ten words or less.

To get attention and boost my ego. (Seven words - you know, I think I can fit another reason in there if I tried. )

But if you're asking what the message for Fifteen Hundred Credits was, I think it was "It's not just bad people who do bad things." (Why "I think"? Because I don't remember, that's why.)


How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

For me, telling a story is the reason. But that's not what's being asked, is it?

Having a "reason" - or a theme or a message - is probably the last thing on my mind when I write. In fact, when I see a message creeping into my stories, I make a conscious effort to shove it out. Not that I always succeed, but . . .

- lazy

 

Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?
Usually I have a message in mind when I set out to tell the story. And no, it's not "Hey, look! A GFFA funeral!"

Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less.
The first one in my profile:
I just can't resist a good murder mystery (8 words).

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?
I think it's very important, because it kind of focuses what you do with the beginning and the rest of the story itself. My mom, the piano teacher, always tells me to "Begin with the end in mind" and "Imagine it, expect it, allow it." Basically, it's all clever phrasing for "Know what you want to see as the end result and you can figure out the small steps more easily."

 

Great idea for a thread!


Why are you writing your story?
Because the Star Wars Universe is as vast as the imagination. With so much more to it than what we've seen on the big screen or read in books, there are millions of stories just waiting to be told. If I'm lucky enough I'll have the chance to write just a few of those tales.

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?
Absolutely! Stories, like life, are meaningless w/o purpose.

Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less.
For my WIP Crimson Knight: Heroes and villains come from all walks of life.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?
Very! If the writer doesn't have a reason for writing it, why would a prospective reader have a reason to read it?

 

My master....a moron? This really could get interesting, throwing us together....*snicker*

Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

Why am I writng it? Because it's taking up much needed space in my mental filing cabinet, that's why!
Ahem... All theatrics aside, I write because I love it, and I feel compelled to share my thoughts, however odd they may be. I may not set out with the intention of conveying a message, but I hope that the themes and ideals that do surface from amongst all the angst and strangness are things readers can relate to, and, ultimately, believe in.

Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less.

I don't have a story in my sig or my bio, I'm still trying to get it out of my head! Perhaps starting on these boards with an epic was not such a wonderful idea... But that story in its fragmented and scattered form can best be described as:

One girl's quest to avenge her father and find her soul.

Gah! 11 words, but I did try.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

Well, will is everything. The will to write is often reason enough for me.

 

11 words, that's okay. You're the padawan of the guy in charge.

 

Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?
My current story started as a vignette. When people read it they commented that they wanted to see what happened next. I realized that I did as well and set about to find out what happens to these two characters I've created.
I'm much too new at this to be thinking about messages. I'm just thrilled that when I sit down with pen and paper (yes, I start the old fashioned way) that words come out of my head in the order I'd like to see them. Stories emerge and then I get to play sculptor and refine the form. Only then does a message start to reveal itself and it often becomes something I did not intend but helps to reveal some inner truth I've been looking for in my own life.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?
To follow the journey wherever it will lead.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?
As I said earlier, I'm new enough that for me the writing itself is reason enough to do it. However, I can see in my finished pieces that there were underlying questions I'm looking to answer besides simply "I wonder what happed to Obi-Wan after he got to Tatooine?" In answering that question and through the actual writing process, I find myself revealing inner thoughts that come out through my characters actions and reactions. Things I didn't know were even floating around. I guess I'm finding the information that's revealed to be the true reason for telling the story. So I guess it's important for me to have a reason for telling the story, though I often don't know what it is until the piece is finished.

 

Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

I usually don't set out trying, a message usually finds its way in partway through the process. I've never been big on themes and symbolism (though now I'm writing a story with colour symbolism, Force help us all...), but I tend to put in things that work and figure it out after the fact. If that makes any sense.

My current story didn't even start out as anything more than a joke on a KOTOR messageboard, largely trying to thwart the usual ideas of most people there. I think I had one convert to my theory, but I decided to put it into story form. And now I'm working on making it interesting and worth reading.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

Hippified Jedi with organic fruit farms are cool.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

At the outset? I don't need much of a reason. But if it starts getting long, I need a reason to keep going, and a reason for people to keep reading. I'm really good at short, snappy pieces that are mostly just fun, but for once, I'm writing something where I'll have to show character growth and development. Otherwise, the story gets kinda boring. Which means the story has to have a purpose beyond making people laugh. So, I suppose I do need at least some reason for telling a story, and how much of a reason depends on the length.

Great thread, I'll have to keep an eye on it.

 

I write because I enjoy it and it's cheaper than therapy. A good friend here shared with me her college prof's view of the bard William Shakespeare. "If he were alive today he'd be writing for the soap operas."

I think that's true.

I also don't think everything we write has to have some deeper meaning or message. Why can't we write (and read) simply because we enjoy it? Sometimes the meaning I find in my work or someone else's is accidental and I like that the best. Because while a work might mean something to ME, it will probably mean something completely different to a person in the context of their own life.

And that's the way it should be.

My two creds' worth!

 

I agree! I don't always/normally write with a message to convey... I just like to write. There's a quote somewhere (can't remember who said it) about that... "I write because I have to." (Or something along those lines, anyway...)

I guess I write for selfish reasons... it's not so much to entertain others as it is to entertain myself.

That, and it temporarily stops the ideas from bouncing around in my head and driving me nuts.

And... summerize why I wrote the first fic in my profile in ten words?

<looks> It just HAD to be that one, didn't it?

A Disturbing Discovery: "Let's see if I can write something satisfisfying both 'ships..."

 

Yeah, thats another reason I write too. Basically to write the stories I want to read and that interest me...

 

Wow! Look at all the pretty replies!

You people rock.

Okay, now for my own:

Why are you writing your story?

Because I thought it would be interesting to see the backstory of some of the previous story's minor characters.

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

To a certain degree. I have a "theme" I select (usually the section's subtitle) for chunks of my big works, but mostly I'm writing to entertain or as experimentation.

Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less.

"Umm... these are the good guys?"

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

I've *always* got a plot in mind, as well as a rough outline, but I don't know that I started writing this monster with an overarching message or purpose other than telling an interesting story. There are, of course, various subplots and philosophical messages that make their way into the story, plus each section has it's own overall theme. I don't know that I've started any story with an underlying purpose other than to entertain.

I'm sure Freud would have a field day with the undertones present in a *lot* of stories on this board.

Most - er, *all* - of my humor pieces started that way... just random brain-farts.

I ran into that as well. I've often got themes showing up within the space of one scene or post in some cases. Depends on what I'm thinking while I writing.

Interesting observation. Now I'm going find myself looking for those things while I'm reading...

Any particular reason why? Is that because of the context, or a personal desire (or neither)?

Are you talking about the underlying meaning of the story... or the plot itself?

This surprises you... how?

And yes, you can have an extra word since you're the thread-host's Paddiewan.

No kidding!

 

Arin_Atona asked in reply to my post:

---

Any particular reason why? Is that because of the context, or a personal desire (or neither)?[hr][/blockquote]It's probably personal. I don't like to write stories with clear morals (although I've done it lots of times before and probably will again). I would rather have the reader stop to wonder, "So what was he trying to say?" because chances are, s/he will eventually come up with something I never intended. And hopefully, s/he'll share that idea with me.

I'm not sure if that made any sense, but there's my answer.

- lazy

 

Excellent idea for a thread! This actually looks like one I may keep up on.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

Okay, not one in sig, but I think the first one in the bio is Silhouetted by Light. The meaning, in ten words or less:

Freedom is not always based on choice.

Believe me, though, that's not what I had in mind when I started it. At first I just wanted to write a fic where Obi-Wan met his grandmother, and the thing turned into a monster.


How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

To entertain! I am a storyteller, and I write to entertain a lot of the time or just to get the ideas out of my head. I don't think its important to always have a ground-breaking idea for a story.

I know, stupid quick reply, but I gotta run!

-Krystal