The "Deus ex Machina" Thread - A Moron's Guide to Better Storytelling. [Topic #2]

There are some rather interesting opinions about whether the stories should convey a message. Perhaps I should change my view. Afterall, even Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

 

Well, you could always fake it. Insert enough philisophical mutterings and the readers are bound to get something out of it and be none the wiser.

Probably something along the lines of:

"Who is this guy? What a hack!"

But in all seriousness, in a way I think you're right. Sometimes a good entertaining story is just plain entertaining, without any higher meaning. However, I also think that even the most mundane stories message-wise are going to generate some feeling of purpose behind it, whether the author intends it or not. A dozen individual readers can have fifty different interpretations of a simple story and are likely to get different things out of it than others.

 

I haven't yet posted either of my stories, but I am working on two of them. One is a long story that I don't want to post until I am finished and the other is a short challenge response that still has to be proofread and beta read. I decided to post in this thread because the questions are really interesting!

Why are you writing your story?

I am writing my long story because I was upset by the lack of romance in the Prequel Trilogy. I had a weird dream one night when I was on vacation with some friends and I told them about it, and one of my friends told me I should write a fanfic. And I did!

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

I'm not really sure, actually. I have written many stories in many fandoms, but I don't think many of the stories really had any real message. I usually aim towards themes of love and romance, but not always. My message might be something like "love conquers all."

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

I haven't posted my story yet, but I think I can summarize my story . . . It's an AU of the Prequel Trilogy.

"Which does Anakin love more: Jedi code or Padme?"

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

I think it depends on the length of the story. I think for a long story, a reason for telling the story is important. If the writer isn't motivated to write, the story often reflects the author's lack of motivation. (I'm speaking from personal experience with my own stories.) However, for a vignette, I am not sure if specific motivation is needed. It could just be a small snippet of someone's life, and doesn't really need to have a deeper meaning.

Hope my rambling made some sense and it wasn't wrong for me to post when I haven't yet posted my stories . . .


- Yellow Dart

 

Why are you writing your story?

Simply to amuse myself. Or if you want a dumb but honest answer: "Because I felt like it." And if it entertains other people, that's cool too.

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

Good question. The answer is usually not (or at least I'm not trying to). The message comes as the story is spewed out. Sometimes a hat is just a hat and you're trying to look for a rabbit that isn't there. Writing is one of my ways of expression so obviously some of my beliefs and personal experiences leak out.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

*checks sig*

Vengeance: "Let go of old wounds and see the second chance." OR "There is no peace until personal gratification." (Yes, I know they contradict each other - heck, I don't even know why I'm writing it. Inspired by Kill Bill is all I can say.)

A Circle in the Water: "The turmoil of choosing between duty and feelings." (Not posted at TF.net due to its rating.)

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

Well I always need a reason. It may be a simple reason (like boredom) but it's still a reason.

 

Why are you writing your story?

Short answer: Because I could.

Since that answer is probably too short, here's the long answer.

I wrote it because I have Rosencratz and Guildenstern Syndrome. Which is defined as excessive concern with minor characters. I am currently in treatment until I learn to focus properly on the heroes and heroines, but until that happens, I do what I do. I wrote this story because Cordé's death scene in Episode II bothered me so much. She was dying in Padmé's place, and she apologized. For what? I guess the real question for me is why write a fan fiction? Ordinarily, I would have written an original story inspired by Cordé's death, and my reaction to it. That's what I do. Yet, this time I didn't.

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

Not really. I do believe that what I write inevitably reflects some of my world view, but it's something that should be unconscious. Besides, if I explain it all now, the literary critics won't have anything to do.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

I have but one fic, and it is a humble one. It's in my bio (I didn't want to clutter my stream-lined and lovely signature). And I think I already summarized why I wrote it, and in far more than ten words.

I'll just stick to my code-name for it: "Life of a decoy."

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

I have to ask: What counts as a reason? Because I think that in a way, you need some reason. Otherwise, you would never have the inclination to write a word. But it might not be terribly impressive or noble. In my case, I don't have to be a writer. If I stopped writing, I would be just fine. So I'm clearly making a choice to do so. Even if just happens to be because I'm bored.

 

This looks interesting. Lovely topic, Arin!

Why are you writing your story?

I'm writing my story because I like to write. It makes my day funner, it makes it complete. Writing is sometimes how I express my mood. I enjoy spending time picking over plot bunnies and sub-plots and characters. I'm also writing my story to contemplate what hasn't been explained yet in the SW universe. And then I'm writing it because I'm always curious to see what could be next for the characters.

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

Usually not. I don't think about messages when I start writing. However, a message sometimes sneaks its way in without me realizing it.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

The consequences of past actions effect the past and future.

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

Important. Writing is an art, a way of expressing yourself. That's all the reason I'll ever need.

 

Why are you writing your story?
1) It is on my todo list.
2) People seem to enjoy reading my stories enough to make it worthwhile translating them from imaginary movie (which is good enough for my personal use) to words.

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?
Not consciously. There might be something somewhere in the story, but I don?t purposefully cross from having a character have a opinion / point-of-view to making a story have a message about that opinion.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?
Emperor?s Forgotten-
Why are Ewok?s cute? They wanted to burn Han alive!

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?
If I didn?t have a reason to tell it then I would be spending my time doing something else.

 

*slaps forehead dramatically* Of course!!!!

That's now my reason # 3...

 

Anyone else want to weigh in? We'll be having a new topic later this evening.

 

Here we go...

Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?
I am writing my story because it started out as a plot bunny set upon me by a friend. It then grew and is now one of the five things in my life I am most proud of. And when I write a story, i try to get something across to the reader.


As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?
Sailor Moon and Star Wars meet. Can they survive?


How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?
It is important to me. I like to convey my thoughts and felings when I do a fic.

 

Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

Because the gaps in the pro books leave me with ideas and questions I answer myself. There's no real message in my stories other than, "have fun reading this."

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

Regular people and Jedi fought the Vong too. (8 words.)

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

Well, if I didn't have a reason to do it, I wouldn't. I'd take all the time I'd use on it and put it towards something (I don't know what) else.

 

I'm quite intrigued by the idea of a better story telling thread. I look forward to learning a lot.

In response to the questions posed:

Why are you writing your story?

In the case of An Improbable Mission, because people enjoyed the vignette and I'm easily persuaded, so if someone says "write more of the story, don't stop there" I'm always tempted and often try to. And because I wanted to see if I can figure out what happens. The idea of Mace as Qui-Gon's first padawan gave such fascinating shadings to their interactions in TPM that I wanted to see if I could write how that would come about. I am not at all sure that this story will end up answering that question though. It looks like it will end up as a simple action adventure serial a la the Buster Crabbe ones. Which is a secondary motivation for the story, to see if I can write the type of thing that was one of the influences on GL.

In the case of the as yet unposted huge monstrous thing I'm still struggling with, because I couldn't stand the idea that GL might kill children in RotS (yes, I started it a very long time ago).

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message?

It depends on the story. Some are just for fun, designed to do no more than entertain. Though those often take on more serious aspects. And others are written to convey a message. Though those often take on more entertaining aspects as I go along. In my experience, pure message pieces often don't work too well. They need to be leavened by something entertaining or interesting or the message isn't going to make it to the reader because they'll stop before you get it out. Mission doesn't have a message, or at least, not an intended at the beginning one. The big monstrous unfinished beastie does. I wonder if there is a connection there...

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it?

Can't do it in 10 words or less since the reason has changed over time. From I needed a challenge response to Qui action. to What would Mace would be like as Qui-Gon's first padawan? with a side motive of Can I really write a proper "Republic Serial" type adventure?

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story?

I have a reason for telling every story. Sometimes the reason is just to entertain or amuse but my personal feeling is that that is reason enough. A lot of my posted work here is in response to challenges so by default has a "reason" though not necessarily a purpose. Some stories have purposes. I want the reader to either feel something or think about something so in that sense there is a purpose. Sometimes I am just tired of seeing so many stories of one particular viewpoint that I purposely write a different one in a story. Sometimes I write something to prove it can be done or that I can do it depending on the particular story in question.

I hope I have squeaked in before the topic change.

KD

 

I'm SkalenFehl and I too am a writing moron.

Why are you writing your story? I write because it is an outlet, a means of relaxation. Nevermind the evil plot bunnies that tear at my feet. If I have a plot forming, it begs to be written.

When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message? Do you mean a moral? I usually try to convey feelings and emotions. See, I am a moron.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less. Can you do it? A plot formed in my mind begging to be written. (10 exactly. Hah!)

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story? It's about as important as having a destination when taking a journey.

 

--TOPIC #2 Right Here!--

---

[b]Topic #2:[/b] [hl=#ffff88][b][color=#3300aa]Plot[/color][/b][/hl]

Put simply, plot is a four-letter word. Take that however you want. ;)

[b]Plot[/b] is the sequence of events that takes place in a story. This isn't to say that pieces without a plotline are bad (in fact, there are many expository works on the JCF alone that are [i]very[/i] good without a plot), but typically, if you're writing more than a one-or-two post story, you'll most likely have a plot - or at least a good idea of where the story is going.

[b]Do you write with a plot?[/b] Which of the following best describes your writing style?

- [b](A)[/b] I plan everything out in advance so I know exactly when and where everything goes.
- [b](B)[/b] I have an idea of where I want the story to go, and maybe a few points along the way, but I fill in the gaps on the fly.
- [b](C)[/b] Plot? I don't need no stinking plot.

[b]Exercise:[/b] Come up with a four-point plotline for a very short story. You don't have to write this story (unless you really want to), but post your four-point plot here (each point should be a simple sentence).

Example:
- Jar-Jar wakes up and goes out for a brisky mornin-munchin.
- Jar-Jar finds a nice bush full of fruit and fights-off a meerwhick to get some breakfast.
- A meteor falls out of the sky onto Jar-Jar, making a fruity Gungan pancake.
- The galaxy cheers wildly.

 

Why are you writing your story? When you set out to tell a story, are you trying to convey a message? Honestly, I was driven to write my first real fic out of dissatisfaction with what I was reading elsewhere. I wasn't finding anything that was tackling the issues I really wanted to see explored, so I sat down at the keyboard with the old adage of, "If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself." This sounds horribly egotistical, but even if my material turned out to be bad!fic too, at least I was content knowing I was trying to cover ground that few others had. Of course, now after having been at the JC for two years straight I'm definitely not alone, and the caliber of the work has often discouraged me, because it just makes me say, "This is terrific already--why should I bother?"

I guess I am conveying a message, and not an entirely unique one perhaps--part of it is self-exploration, questioning things that make me wonder, "How is this even possible?" For my specific fic, in the wake of ROTS (and something else rather shocking that I saw at Comic Con last week), my own brain is just reeling with the singular question of: How in the friggin' stars could Luke forgive a father like that? I think the kernel of my message isn't an entirely positive one either--what I'm really trying to communicate is the obstacles that a relationship between these two figures would suffer in a logical sense. Yes, I have a bizarre obsession with logic. Everything has to work rationally.

As a quick exercise, take a look at the fic you have linked in your signature (or the first one in your bio). Try to summarize why you are/were writing it in ten words or less.

Acceptance and forgiveness don't always go hand in hand.

(Or my more subliminal thought: Bad things happen to good people. Deal with it. )

How important (to you) is having a reason for telling a story? Well, if you don't have a reason at all you're probably just going to look stupid. I worry a lot about impressions and one personal factor for writing is, yes, I'll admit it...to get some accolades. If I actually don't suck, I enjoy hearing that fact from others. But I do usually have a reason beyond, "Ooo, that'd be nifty!" which is why all of my stuff revolves around character study. I like poking around in characters' heads, and a "What If" situation becomes more of an experiment in how they would be affected emotionally and psychologically rather than what happens to the GFFA--that's just the backdrop.

And yes, I deliberately avoided reading everyone else's responses before I posted mine because I knew I'd just get influenced and chicken out.


EDIT: I didn't see the new topic because I was busy typing my post.

 

Do you write with a plot?

Oh, B definitely describes my style. I might have an outline of main points I need to hit if I'm dong really well, but let's face it- I write for images. I wrote a two-part story on one image, that of being my OC and Carth Onasi facing off, Carth with his blaster out and Leiraya with her spoon pointed at him. I just had to decide how to get there, and make it interesting. So in a longer story, I stretch from images to scenes. In my current two fics in my sig (which are, in reality, one story, but that's a whole different can of worms...) I have very specific scenes all planned out in my head, I just have to figure out how to make the journey between them interesting.

Come up with a four-point plotline for a very short story. You don't have to write this story (unless you really want to), but post your four-point plot here (each point should be a simple sentence).

Ahhh...okay.

1. HK-47 goes in for a tune-up
2. The repairman accidentally destroys HK-47's assassination protocols
3. HK-47 joins an anti-war movement
4. The anti-war movement kicks him out because he never stopped calling people meatbags; HK-47 returns home.

...I can't believe I just went through like, five different plots. I guess I get inspired at random, making up plots on the fly doesn't work quite as well.

 

I'd have to agree with DWH, I'm definitely also a B person, except I start of with a concept, like "How would the New Order affect the military lives of the Clone Troopers?" From there its more a matter of thinking of events, characters, and plot to serve the ideas and themes presented. For example, I've written the "Excerpts from The Life of Lord Octavius Nyro," for the expressed purpose of fleshing out some of the ideas I present in "Lexicon." Better yet, I have created two planets for the expressed purpose of "Lexicon's" story. Most of the time, though, I have no idea where the story is going...

Come up with a four-point plotline for a very short story. You don't have to write this story (unless you really want to), but post your four-point plot here (each point should be a simple sentence).

1) An Imperial officer is ordered to hunt down the last remaning Jedi.
2) The Jedi hide on a remote planet(s).
3) The officer tracks the Jedi.
4) The Jedi are executed.

Not a happy tale...

 

Finally got around to seeing what this thread is, and it's very interesting. Thanks Arin!

Plot:

- After Palpatine designs Darth Vader's suit, he realizes that he hasn't provided a way for Vader to eat.

- Vader wakes up feeling very hungry and depressed, he needs some chocolate bad.

- Palpatine threatens his cook with execution if the cook can't figure out a way to feed Vader chocolate.

- The cook invents the milkshake.

OK, that was silly, but oh well.

 

Do you write with a plot? Yes, with a combination of (a) and (b). I must have a general overview of the entire story mapped out, minimum beginning and ending. The middle comes out second, and details tend to appear as I either start writing or keep redoing the overview. I take so darn long to write anyway that the details always change on me. I usually wind up thinking of something and then later saying, "Wait, that's crap, THIS would be much better...!" Or I'll see or hear something during the course of a day that inspires me and I'll find some way to work it in. But no matter what, everything needs to be there for a reason, otherwise it's out the window.

Exercise: Come up with a four-point plotline for a very short story. You don't have to write this story (unless you really want to), but post your four-point plot here (each point should be a simple sentence).

1. Little Ben Skywalker plays with his toy X-Wing.
2. He accidentally breaks his toy and cries.
3. Luke picks him up and lets him play X-Wing piggyback around the house.
4. Ben is happy again because this is so much more fun.


Wait, that's kinda cute. I might actually write that.

 

Do you write with a plot? Which of the following best describes your writing style?

- (A) I plan everything out in advance so I know exactly when and where everything goes.
- (B) I have an idea of where I want the story to go, and maybe a few points along the way, but I fill in the gaps on the fly.
- (C) Plot? I don't need no stinking plot.

A. The last time I did B, I ended up 400 pages over where I intended to end and half the people who had ever read my stuff hated me for what I did to the characters. On the other hand, it turned out to be a great story. But ever since then and especially since my Jaina/Jag 'shippers were trying to whine me into an early grave in my trilogy, I've had the end in mind and had almost everything planned out.

Exercise: Come up with a four-point plotline for a very short story. You don't have to write this story (unless you really want to), but post your four-point plot here (each point should be a simple sentence).

1) Obi-Wan awakes from a coma to find he's been asleep for six months and his Master's been dead since he went comatose.
2) The Council refuses to let him return to that world.
3) He steals a ship and searches for Qui-Gon's body.
4) Instead, he finds Qui-Gon in a prison camp and rescues him.

 

Do you write with a plot?

Most of the time I have a plot. Sometimes it's completely random and makes no sense to anyone but me, yet it's still a plot.

Which of the following best describes your writing style?

- (A) I plan everything out in advance so I know exactly when and where everything goes.
- (B) I have an idea of where I want the story to go, and maybe a few points along the way, but I fill in the gaps on the fly.
- (C) Plot? I don't need no stinking plot.

Deffinately B. I work out the overall plot in my head and if I'm really excited about it I make a few notes as to what I want to happen in different areas of the story. The rest is totally on the fly.

Exercise: Come up with a four-point plotline for a very short story.

- Luke returns to the Lars homestead ten years after he first left.
- He finds a box of momentos that were hidden out in the garage, and goes through the box.
- One of the momentos is a holofilm of his parents wedding, so he takes it back to Coruscant to share with Leia.
- The twins decide to learn more about their mother and go visit their maternal Aunt on Naboo. They all live happily ever after.

 

Do you write with a plot? Yes. There's always a plot even in the shortest works. Although it might be very hazy because it doesn't usually flesh itself out until I need it.

Which of the following best describes your writing style?

- (A) I plan everything out in advance so I know exactly when and where everything goes.
- (B) I have an idea of where I want the story to go, and maybe a few points along the way, but I fill in the gaps on the fly.
- (C) Plot? I don't need no stinking plot.

B, most of the time. For me it is more like there is a nice full plot out there but there is a lot of fog. Where the fog thins I see what is happening but I don't usually see the whole thing. This is how I end up with scenes written for the middle of a fic I haven't started yet. So sometimes, when the full thing finally becomes apparent I end up struggling a bit to make the various sections line up properly. I wish I did A simply because it seems like it must be an easier way to write. I should really practice that one on the next short story.

Exercise: Come up with a four-point plotline for a very short story. You don't have to write this story (unless you really want to), but post your four-point plot here (each point should be a simple sentence).

1) Pernaith finds a pair of jeweled cuffs in the wreakage of a spaceship she is studying.
2) She learns that the cuffs can accentuate her minor skill in manipulating the Force.
3) She uses them to help her overthrow the legitimate ruler of her planet.
4) One night she disappears along with the cuffs and one of her personal guard.

 

Do you write with a plot? Which of the following best describes your writing style?

I'm an A/B person with OCD outlines written in hieroglyphics that only I can decipher. I typically start out with a general concept of what it is I want to say and after I decide what my grandious philosophical change-the-world kind of revelation is going to be, I start laying out the road map. I used to think that strong characters could carry you through when your plot was lacking, however the truth is that without a sound plot you're doing your characters a disservice. In a sci-fi/fantasy writers group I was coordinating we used Tobias's 20 Master Plots (And How to Build Them) and Ansen Dibell's Plot (in the Elements of Fiction Writing Series), which though not perfect works, did help me get over my character-centric focus--I list them here, because they both work well with sci-fi. Also, as I'm prone to bringing in six thousand different supporting characters with subplots, I really have to keep it all structured and outlined or I just end up with an interesting mob.

I think one of the key factors in determining how much plot-planning you need to do is the genre of the work. I write mystery/suspense pieces and I feel that you really need a good idea of where your plot is headed before you start since you're going to be manipulating elements of it to provide misdirection and redirection to your readers. You have keep plot goals in mind as you work through the story if you're depending on nailing your audience with a surprise twist at the end, they have to be able to go back and say, "oh, I should have saw that coming." I have a 50+ page trainwreck as testament to the "keep an eye on the plot" philosophy.

Exercise: Come up with a four-point plotline for a very short story. You don't have to write this story (unless you really want to), but post your four-point plot here (each point should be a simple sentence).

1. Poor immigrant finds a dead man.
2. Immigrant steals the wallet and identity of dead man.
3. Immigrant discovers dead man was wanted criminal.
4. Immigrant ends up paying for the crimes of the dead man.

 

I don't have much to say about the first topic, except -

- why would you not have a purpose for writing?

The pen is mightier than the sword. I don't believe in wasting my words. For every major fic, and most short ones too, I've had a purpose. The point to Nameless By Ice was twofold: to tie off a loose end in the X-Wing series and to explore the ideas of freedom and names (without ever using the words "What's in a name?", thankyouverymuch!).

And now, to get with the times -

Do you write with a plot?

C! Plot? Plot is for sissies! I'd like to think that my main fic right now is one of those very good expository works Arin is thinking of, but I doubt that's true.

The big, obnoxiously long, out-of-control experiment I've been working on and posting lately is a full-length fic that's pretty much 95% character, 5% plot. The actual plot - i.e. the sequence of events that actually happen - doesn't matter much in comparison to how my main character/narrator reacts to it all. The plot directly follows a tangent off the X-Wing series, and it's very straightforward and bland by itself until I weave all the character development into it.

So I guess you could say character development is my plot.

I'm finding it fun to write without lots of subplots or craziness like that; simplicity has been a blast. (Three cheers for stream-of-conciousness! You should try it sometime! ) So many stories out there are so focused on what people do that they forget to mention who the people are.

Anyway, my writing style, experimental monsters aside, trends more towards B; I know where I'm starting, I know where I'm going, and I know what I want to do along the way. Then I figure it out from there. The only times I actually outline anything is when I'm writing an essay. Y'know, where a strict structure actually matters.

But if I must, a plot outline:

- Once upon a time, there was a very beautiful princess who lived on a planet nobody cared about except its inhabitants.
- A stupid mistake one terrible Thursday brought the Empire down upon them.
- The princess went to find help, and she found Rogue Squadron.
- The princess and Wes Janson lived happily ever after - after destroying the Empire, of course.

*gag*

 

Utterly sadistic....and undeniably hilarious, if I do say so myself, Master dearest.



Do you write with a plot? Which of the following best describes your writing style?

- (A) I plan everything out in advance so I know exactly when and where everything goes.
- (B) I have an idea of where I want the story to go, and maybe a few points along the way, but I fill in the gaps on the fly.
- (C) Plot? I don't need no stinking plot.

Plot is important to me. I don't know how people write without some idea of where they're going. Well, I try (A) but I find it frustrating cuz I can't fill in all the gaps some times. Occassionally, method (B) is employed when I don't have time to think about it, as with my first complete fanfiction on these boards. The idea just sort of struck out of the blue and I had to write it down before I forgot it.