ST The Development Of The Sequel Trilogy

Gotta love how destroying Luke, his Jedi Order, Han, Leia, their marriage, their legacy, was all hunky dory-whatever you want JJ. But destroying Corruscant and suddenly LFL is like that crosses the line dude.

 

I found the first three episodes of Mando s1 to be wonderful but thought “The Jedi” was shoddily written and directed, not to mention Filoni retconning RotJ and his own character (“I am no Jedi” - not anymore lulz.) I was fine with Ahsoka’s recasting, though I felt she didn’t translate as dynamically as Bo Katan did.

 

Ahsoka rejected the Jedi Order by the end of in TCW. That comment was a catchup point for fans.

Also - found this helps:

https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-the-clone-wars-chronological-episodeorder

 

@2Cleva

Filoni said don’t get too attached to Ahsoka’s “I am no Jedi.” In other words he’s retconned her into still being a Jedi, thus retconning RotJ.

 

From Yoda's line? Ehh - splitting hairs, especially since Yoda was trying to get Luke to do something he didn't want to and was critical. TCW addresses this already as well.

 

Yes - from Yoda’s line, which was treated with real weight when delivered, not like a fake-out.

TCW was made long-afterwards. Whatever reframing it attempts is a retcon. It’s very clear from RotJ that Luke was - by authorial intent - the last Jedi.

That moment in RotJ was powerful, both for me and for others for whom that movie and Luke’s experience was extremely formative. I know you think highly of Filoni but I don’t take kindly to him or anyone else retconning RotJ.

Heck, the ST was a bomb, and I hated TLJ, but at least it just unraveled the events of the OT later in the timeline. It didn’t presume to directly retcon those movies.

 

Never saw those tweets what specifically did he say about George's ST ?

 

Lucas was just involved in the retcon as Filoni. He was part of TCW too.

I see the point you're trying to make big picture and assume this ties into the convo about the digital creations and not touching what's already been done - but that Rubicon has been crossed long ago in SW - by GL himself with the Special Editions. Not saying one way or another is right or wrong - but this is how it is. I don't blame anyone involved with the ST for trying to do their own thing, but trying the approach as well as not even trying to continue the story was a bad idea with predictable results.

If there ever was a person put in this position who would constantly be motivated to do it as GL wanted and use him as a constant mentor for stories - its going to be Filoni.

Back on topic with this thread - not doing what GL would have done with the story was obviously the only motivating factor I see from anyone involved with the ST - From KK, JJ, Bad Robot, RJ, the Story Group and everyone else involved.

Now we're seeing the GL-inspired continuation of the story post-ROTJ in the F&F projects. We'll see if the twain shall meet.

 

Lucas wanted Ahsoka killed though.

 

For sake of argument say that's true. SW always was evolving and different decisions made by GL himself. Him wanting to kill a character and changing mine isn't unheard of. Again - retconning and changing ideas has always been a part of SW.

So the ST trying to do it their way instead of GL's inspired way wasn't wrong. They shot their shot. Requels (reboot sequels) are the norm. But they gotta be good for fans to embrace them, otherwise they want something closer to the original. TFA did its part (barely - most gave it benefit of the doubt) but TLJ and TROS both failed.

Filoni as close to GL as fans are going to get and in general they've reacted as such - the embracement for the continuity from the F&F projects compared to the embracement of the ST isn't close.

 

I would have forgiven all the ST’s flaws if Poe had said “Somehow, Panaka returned.”

His unceremonious disappearance after Episode 1 still stings.

 

I get what where you're coming from... but Ahsoka is like one of the most popular Star Wars characters, with fans, *ever*... and to exclude the possibility of having her in live action seems a bit self defeating... especially as she's not technically a Jedi by the end of TCW.

 

Let’s retcon the word retcon and replace it with the phrase “told more stories.”

 

The main thing was that the villain of the sequels (Maul) would have been discovered to be hiding out in the depths of Coruscant. So the planet would’ve featured heavily. Also, the tweets imply that Starkiller was an Abrams addition, so it wasn’t part of the story in the Lucas treatments. But that one we kind of already knew or suspected. Generally Hidalgo just seemed to comment on how much TFA was an apparent rehash of ANH but as a “diet/light” version.

 

This. I happen to love the ST. Yet, I am bewildered by those that bemoan the "undoing of ROTJ" and kind of don't think Ahsoka in The Mandalorian changes/undoes/retcons the OT in a major way.

Having her alive (technically a Jedi or not) removes much of the gravitas of both Yoda and Obi-Wan's plight/words. If Luke is not truly "the last Jedi" then the gravitas OT/galaxy is lessened, the peril isn't as great, the danger isn't as ominous, and the odds aren't quite as stacked against Luke, Leia, and the rebels as we thought.

 

A better title for TFA would’ve been Star Wars: A Diet Hope

 

@jaimestarr

I agree with you, but I'm also of the opinion any error there is harmless.

Although there is no reasonable dispute that Yoda and Obi Wan were speaking literally, and that Luke represented the last of the Jedi, the gravitas of those words derives not from their literal truth but from their weight. Stated differently, Ahsoka could be roaming the GFFA as a Jedi, could even publish a memoir entitled "Am I Really Still a Jedi? You Make the Call!" and it would have no bearing on the OT. Luke, and only Luke, is the vessel to turn Darth Vader and cause the Emperor's defeat. Well, Leia as the other. But Ahsoka is irrelevant to those concerns.

 

I’m not taking about her remaining alive. I’m talking about Filoni going lolllzzzz actually she IS a Jedi after all, thus undermining a powerful aspect of RotJ.

 

Johnson having Kylo destroy his mask and Snoke calling it "ridiculous" seemed like a similar "F you" to Abrams as the Hosnian thing was to Lucas. So I appreciated that. Johnson did put a little bit more PT influences in his film, and has said complimentary things about the PT. It's like each director attacked the previous one. It's just a shame that Abrams was brought back for TRoS.

 

I don't think RJ got rid of the mask because he was sending a secret F you to JJ.

RJ needed Rey to fall in love with Kylo. And that could/would only happen if she was force-tied up against her will, and saw the genocidal fascist pretty boy's face. Can't fall in love with the mask so the masks got to go.

That's it. All his decisions lead back to making Rey fall for Kylo.

 

Kylo was already without his mask in TFA and in what I've seen of TRoS despite rebuilding the mask there. I think calling it ridiculous was definitely a jab at TFA. Many people thought the mask was ridiculous since the beginning. It's like a Vader/Revan cosplay. I think it's also Johnson rejecting the nostalgia pandering imagery of the Abrams movies.

Many things in TLJ read like jabs at TFA and Abrams. Actually, the whole film is like a rebellion against the things he set up. It's been talked to death, but Luke rejecting the lightsaber, Rey nobody, Snoke dead, etc. All screw yous to Abrams.

 

It wasn’t just Filoni’s call to have other Jedi running around the galaxy during the events of ROTJ. Lucas himself set this up in ROTS when Obi-Wan and Yoda infiltrate the Jedi Temple precisely to warn other Jedi away. Then just a year ago Lucas also confirmed this would’ve paid off in his sequels, where Luke would gather some of the disbanded and hidden Jedi to help him train a new generation of Jedi and rebuild the Order.

Although Filoni specifically wanted Ahsoka to survive, it doesn’t really matter who the Jedi were. They weren’t a formal order or in contact with Obi-Wan and Yoda anymore at that point. The story evolved, even for Lucas.

 

Honestly. That's just RJ making fun of everything that's cool about SW. Not specifically JJ.

 

The lightsaber throw felt like a screw you to those who wanted to see Luke's legacy as implied by the OT's ending.