ST The Development Of The Sequel Trilogy

I am a black guy. In case anyone were to think something bad I'm not saying having a black guy in the film is bad. I'm just saying that's what their thought process probably was. I'm painting the picture of how they think.

Edit: I deleted it then to avoid any controversy.

 

This statement is perhaps more revealing than you intend.

 

Aliens have been visiting earth for thousands of years, but that discussion is for another forum.

 

I think Comet1140 does have a very good point, and his other unrelated beliefs shouldn't affect that.

I want to believe as much as the rest of you that these films are pretty closely based on Lucas' ideas (whether from the treatment or discussions), and I think that idea intuitively makes a lot of sense, but Lucas' own comments are the major sticking point in that regard (as well as Hidalgo's latest tweet, which seems to suggest that Lucas was out of the picture by 2013).

The bottom line is that a lot of the info we have seems to contradict each other. The timelines given by various people don't really add up, so I think there's a lot we're still missing. Who knows what direction it leads in. If there's one thing that I've learned over the last few years (with SW and other stuff), it's that people are surprisingly forgetful and inconsistent when giving interviews. As fans we always read way too much into individual statements, I think. Whereas the speakers probably often don't take them quite as seriously, just giving a vague recollection of an event from a few years ago.

This discussion just keeps spiraling on and on. It's fun, though - if a bit frustrating!

 

If we did not have direct statements from Lucas himself saying outright that they did not use his story then this would not be an open and shut case. The guy has told us himself what happened, I don't see what's unclear about it.

"they decided they were gonna do their own thing. They weren't that keen on having me involved anyway"

"you don't show up at their coffee shop and say, 'You are going to burn it...' You just say 'Nope, gone, history, I'm moving forward.'"

"so I decided, “Fine.... I’ll go my way and I let them go their way.”

"So they made up their own"

That settles it for me. He was not involved. They made up their own story. What his story idea was, remains a mystery.

 

I don't find Lucas particularly reliable. This is the guy who said the ST would never happen and that the mere idea was an offhand joke that was never meant to be taken seriously.

 

Oh, yeah, forgot about the ST back-and-forth, that's a great example of the dynamic I mentioned, Artoo-Dion.

I think the one thing we can take away from Lucas' recent comments is that he wasn't very happy with the direction things went. That can mean a lot of different things. I do think the fact that Lucas was so hurt by what happened has to count for something, though, even though it doesn't tell us how much of his story survived (and I suspect at least some did, as the evidence overwhelmingly says as such!)

It's not just Lucas, of course, who can't always be taken at face value. People forget things, people don't go into as much detail as we'd like, and we end up with an incomplete picture of what happened. It's unfortunate, but I suppose there's not much we can do about it.

 

Has there been any comment(s) from Lucas since the famous "White slavers" remark?

 

I hesitate to speculate regarding what went through Lucas' head, but it seems he just couldn't be involved without being in charge--he found it too frustrating. And it's not at all surprising to me if his main gripe with TFA was merely the "retro" aesthetic.

 

Well...he ate some noodles at a mall.

 

I've never gotten into any debates about Lucas's TFA involvement (or lack thereof). In fact I'm on record saying that just because Lucas's creative mindset with the PT led to a trilogy I think is excellent does not mean I would've been similarly pleased with a Lucas-helmed Episode VII. So this info doesn't really affect the way I look at TFA, especially since it's the finished product that doesn't sit well with me, not basic ideas and starting points. Most TFA concept art I've seen is cool, for instance, from early "Jedi killer" concepts to some stuff not that far removed from the finished product. Anyways, if nothing else it's interesting to get at least the smallest glimpse of where Lucas was working from at one point.

 

Lucasfilm continuity guru said that a character in the Bloodlines novel was taken from the TFA story that "existed in it's earliest forms" And I believe there's also a quote from him that the ROTJ to TFA timeline is based upon Rian Johnson and Lucas' ideas. So whatever Lucas came up with it's still in the mix. As far as I can tell, the Lucas elements in TFA are a female protagonist and a "Jedi Killer"

 

Given that character and plot seem barely distinguishable in the finished film from the developments that Lucas was involved in before leaving, the difference in "story" that Lucas wanted to tell was that he wanted to establish a new era in a similar way to the prequel, Republic era. Which would have probably demanded a similar style of storytelling that which defined TPM. The direction Lucasfilm took was to bring the audience immediately up to speed with the dynamics of the story and character with a backdrop that was familiar from the preceding era. So that the backdrop didn't need to have story time devoted to it. The prequel trilogy showed that Lucas had become comfortable with expending story time on showcasing the backdrop he was now able to realise.

 

Hey, I'm a brother too.

However, the black lead was something with the Ardnt script. I don't remember it being the story groups idea to have an African American storm trooper. The female lead was also something Lucas wanted to do with the first SW movie.

Just some small tidbits..I see what you mean though..

 

The black lead was on the table pretty early. The difference was it was the older character of the trio. He was going to be Luke's last padawan, John Doe. That is why actors like Chiwetel Ejiofor o David Oyelowo were rumored to have a part on the story.

 

Exactly what I was about to point out. To clarify further, even GL's comments in the Charlie Rose interview where he made the "retro" remark were made before he saw the movie. His comments about them "throwing out" his ideas - all made before he saw the movie. What he also admitted during 2015 was that he had "no idea" what was in the film & what it would be about. Clearly after he departed the creative process significant further change occurred. That change may've included going back to some of his ideas or those he had some input into. I remember back during the early debates there was this article which I found to be a measured well informed take on the situation: http://bigshinyrobot.com/58402/disney-still-using-lucass-star-wars-ideas/

This recent analysis suggests that more of GL's ideas were incorporated than many expected, probably including himself. I certainly sensed that while not entirely pleased with TFA he was definitely happier with it than he thought he would be. For example, he couldn't seem more cynical about the movie during that Rose interview filmed a couple of weeks before he saw it. One comment he made was that SW shouldn't be about "spaceships" but rather should be about family. Then at the LA premiere, having seen the film already he was asked what it was about. He replied "It's a film about family & what one generation passes onto the next".

 

Excuse me, African-British

 

If that's not telling, then I don't know what is.

 

Given Lucas' penchant for complete control, that phrase about the baby and the bathwater springs to mind. 'Going their own way' doesn't mean throwing out everything and starting from scratch, it could be a few deviations here and there. It's likely that he was speaking in broad terms so you shouldn't take his words literally.

Not that any of this really means anything. How much Lucas was involved in the story of TFA seems relevant only to serve as justication for a bias held going into the movie for the first time, or as a posthoc argument to try and soften opinions. I don't think I've seen any backpedalling yet. Even seeing the actual treatments (perhaps one day), people will still have that bias against the ST because the imagination usually beats what was realised and Lucas didn't do them.

 

Is there actually a tweet from Pablo where he directly confirms that Skylar from the concept art was meant to be Han's son? Or are people just coming to that conclusion based on him saying that Kylo "evolved from a character in GL's treatment"?

Also, did Jett Lucas actually straight-up say that Han Solo's son was a character in the original treatment? Or are people just coming to that conclusion based on him saying "I don't know...maybe Han's teaching his son how to fly the Falcon or something" back in 2013? Cause I remember that video interview, and he was clearly being tongue-in-cheek.

 

What about all the times that Lucas points out doing things for the fans in the Prequel Trilogy? Like the clones banging their heads on things. Or having the Wookie planet and "old friend" Chewbacca (after insisting that the Wookies were only meant to represent a primitive culture that overcomes technology, which he had done with the Ewoks - in ROTS the Wookies don't seem to have a problem with technology.)

 

I'm not disputing that. He stated that the Wookies appearing in ROTS and Chewbacca being an old friend that Yoda would miss was done "for the fans".