CT The Emperor hologram scene fully edited

This wins over both the 1980 cut and the 2004 cut:

 

I've always preferred the original cut (I've seen ESB numerous times in theaters) but understand the change. The new dialogue I don't really care for tbh.

 

Well, not really, because it's just a static shot of the Emperor from ROTJ with some moving lips superimposed on top and it looks cheap as hell.

Sure, the make-up in the SE version is a little different than the original, but at least it's a full-fledged performance by Ian McDiarmid. If the make-up in the SE version had been closer I would agree that would have been an improvement, but that doesn't mean this version is better.

 

I'm okay with the hologram in both the 1980 and 2004 versions, but I prefer the dialogue in the 1980 version.

 

Adywan's version is great! Much better than having the ROTS-era Emperor in a movie that takes place only a short time before ROTJ. And although the effect in this fan edit was probably achieved by using a still image as a base, closer inspection reveals that his neck is actually moving as he talks, just like it is in the 2004/2011 version. On top of that, the illusion was disguised well by the distortion in the hologram effect. It's good stuff and probably could have looked even better if ILM had attempted something like this.

But is it just me, or does McDiarmid's performance look kind of stiff in the 2004/2011 version? I'm so used to seeing his Emperor portrayal being very exaggerated and over-the-top (in a good way). There's a distinct way he moves his mouth while speaking as the Emperor that seems to be missing here. Just watch him speak in ROTJ or any of the hologram scenes in the prequels. It could be the makeup that's inhibiting his performance, although I don't recall that being the case in ROTS, the movie being filmed when he did this scene. It could also be that the dialogue was largely written for the 1980 Emperor (even with the dialogue changes), whose icy cold portrayal was much different to McDiarmid's, and so it created a tonal mismatch.

 

It wasn't disguised that well because it looks transparently crappy to me.

In ROTS and ROTJ he's hamming it up and having a cackling good time at the expense of his enemies. In TESB he's having a serious conversation with his apprentice. That's why he's more subdued. Clive Revill's original performance is the same way.

 

That's why this is so awesome because it includes an actually improved emperor and sticks to the original dialogue.

 

It's not perfect, of course. It could do with a little more movement, but the mouth, chin, and neck all move, so it's more than just superimposed lips on a static image. Plus the 2004/2011 version is pretty stiff as well, and that was with the actual actor filming it. Though ILM doing a better version of what Adywan did would probably make it perfect.

I'm not just saying he's "subdued". I'm saying he looks stiff. Look at the serious conversations he has in any of the prequel scenes (not just the ones where he's hamming it up) and just look at the way his mouth moves as he enunciates his words. There's a specific delivery he has that seems like it's missing here. Like I said, I think part of it may have to do with the type of dialogue it is. McDiarmid's Emperor was not conceived until filming ROTJ and so he's largely saying lines meant for that prior incarnation. Take his Sidious scenes in TPM for example; even though he's not hamming it up, there's a certain *something* to the way he speaks that's not present in his TESB scene, perhaps because the dialogue is not letting it. I dunno. Maybe it's just me.

 

Did the 1997 special edition have an alternate Ian Mcdirmind take ?

 

Special effects aside, the less hammy delivery and original dialogue in this version makes it a win for me.

I was a fan of the Revill emperor, but I don’t mind the change to McDiarmid for the sake of continuity in the Special Edition. The wrong make-up version of Palpatine was used though in my opinion, he doesn’t look like ROTJ Palpatine, and the new dialogue wasn’t too great.

This sort of fixes that in a way.

 

Interesting. I remember hearing Ian McDiarmid was told when he began filming ROTJ that he would probably be dubbed over by Clive Revill in post-production.

I think a lot fewer people would object to the revised Emperor scene in ESB if Lucas had retained the original dialogue. But then it wouldn't be such a glaring example of the perils of Special Editionism.

 

Even though I stubbornly choose the 1980 cut for most rewatches, I always have been slightly annoyed that Lucas didn't just cast an actor to play the Emperor in both TESB and ROTJ.

I do think that the change with McDiarmid makes perfect sense, and this version resembles Palpatine much more closely in ROTJ than how he looked in the 2004 DVD release in which he looked more similar to immediately after the battle with Mace Windu (which was yet to be seen when the edit was made, having presumably just been filmed).

 

but is it really stubborn to enjoy the actual film as it existed for 16 years?

 

The 1997 version is the same as the 1980.

 

Although I don't like it adopting the tone from 2004/2011 "he could destroy us", as if he's waiting for Vader to say his line, the hologram outclasses the cheap 2004/2011 appearance.

I might actually agree the original/1997 cut was better. But anything at this point outclasses the cheap 2004/2011 cut, no doubt.

 

The 2004/2011 is Ian McDiarmid without any cheap photoshop attempts, so it inherently outclasses the fan edit based on it and is a vast improvement over the original, which was the intention.

 

I'm cool with all the versions, and that fan edit is neat too. Thanks for posting @Darth Voldemort

 

Welcome. Anything unique or cool about Star Wars I share with the other fans. It's just not good enough for me to keep it to myself.

 

No..it's not. This "cheap" version is actually much better and keeps the superior dialogue.

 

Why do you put "cheap" in quotation marks? It looks cheap, to the point where it's absolutely comical. I can't believe people are fawning over it.

 

The dialogue is certainly better than the special edition version in my opinion.

 

And because the Emperor's face is a screengrab from ROTJ, he looks like he does in ROTJ, rather than the overly symmetrical & noticeably different makeup used on ROTS.

 

You're right. It looks like a static screengrab from ROTJ with moving footage of lips superimposed on top of it. It looks like total crap. I honestly thought it was a joke when I first saw it.

But oh, yes, it's much better than actually having a full-motion performance from Ian McDiarmid in slightly different-looking makeup that's barely even noticeable to anyone who isn't a hardcore fan.

 

I doubt it would be convincing in a movie theater. It probably really only works on the small screen windows of YouTube.

I do suspect more people would like the revised SE hologram scene if Lucas hadn't tinkered with the dialogue.