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Full Series The Empire

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by Jedi Knight Fett, Jan 24, 2015.

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  1. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014


    The Tie Defender is canon too - Star Wars Commander and other games like this pretty recently have (re)canonized a lot of stuff. Seems most of the better vehicles of the Empire are used in the games and not in the cartoon or movies(although this may change in the sequels and newer spinoffs). The need to shed what are in truth, largely superior vehicles and even the Clones are superior to Stormtroopers, is problematic as the Grand Army of the Republic had largely better vehicles, yes. They only want to claim basically the Empire does not care and prefer cheaper and more expendable assets produced or enlisted as a gargantuan rate. This of course does not work in real life but for Star Wars the only answer is basically the Empire wants to militarily control every planet in every system, its ever expanding. They produce better stuff on a much more smaller scale and more limited and probably being forced to once they meet enemies with superior weaponry. If thats the case, then the Empire would rely on its superior numbers but neither is a guarantee for victory and it would not be for the Empire in the movies. I would say the Republic era vehicles are far superior, they had the benif of the PT artists and incorporation of more sleep and modern designs than the ones Lucas wanted or McQ designed for the OT. All the Empire and Rebel vehicles were worn and very basic like they been fighting for a decade but none of these vehicles were in the PT which was a problem the PT created, one of many anarchorism that was and likely never will be satisfactorily addressed.

    Filoni is also created another dynamic which is kinda troublesome by using Kenner toy or McQ concept pieces as interium vehicles. But this was done with TFU as well, and that game I think did a better job of blending the PT with the OT, looked more lineal, as Filoni also wants to recapture the OT's very dated look - although he seems to be reusing Republic era Star Destroyers and cruisers, but these are all the larger ships. I think they nailed down a proper vision, looks like a blend of two different creators coming to a compromise on what they want to see rather than one absolute visionary(as they lack Lucas for better or for worse).

    Tie Fighter is basically their ME-109 I guess, their workhorse and backbone. While the Tie Interceptor is more along the lines of FW 190 while the Tie Advanced and Tie Defenders are like FW Ta 152 and ME 262's or such. Tie Bombers could be like ME 110's ect. The Imperial government is very Fascist and Corporatist, and probably suffers from political and corporate rivalries, powerplays, backstabbing of various sorts ect. The Emperor like Hitler, seem to believe individuals should battle with each other for survival, and that such ruthless competition was good for the health of the greater good, because it promoted "superior individuals" to higher positions in society. There is a great deal of cronyism and cleptocracy within Palpatine's regime and overall Imperial infrastructure and bureaucracy so a lot of that could be keeping inferior and cheap weapons in the front lines as the corporate suits and politicians keep larger takes for themselves and exploit not only the general population but also their own military. Seems the Galactic Empire is a mix of a Totalitarianism and Autheoriarian state, just all the negatives thrown together and probably why it does not make complete sense. Its hard to really believe Sidious though his Empire would last a 1,000 years or an infinite number of years and looked in trouble from both within and abroad since its formation. Not car
     
  2. Brandon G

    Brandon G Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 20, 2015
    All I can say is the Empire are ALL cold *******s[face_bleh] Also the clone wars was all staged by palpatine and dokuu in the first place to destroy the Jedi order and overthrow the good republic.They should have saw it coming and now the galaxy is overrun with these imperial ****ers.
     
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  3. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    Don't worry I'll get to all of you. Ok...first off:

    jabberwalkie
    Isn't it odd that the Empire didn't test there first prototype in some kind of area 51? Instead, they show it off on some backwater planet that has rebels on it so the rebels can blow it up. Isn't it also odd that the Empire would already after merely (a speculated) weeks come up with an almost totally different prototype?
    I have no problem with R-22s because of there inferior design.
    I've already covered this.

    Vorax
    I'm fine with R-22s. I'd like to see rebel cells using Arc 170s, Z-95s, and Y-wings etc. These are old designs and easy to acquire. Maybe even different fighters we haven't seen yet.
    10-15 years isn't that long when one considers that the USAF has been using F-16s for 40 years and are just now getting phased out.
    Hold off on TFA please. None of us have seen it yet, (and I'm staying away from spoilers) but there seems to be more than one TIE design.

    TaradosGon
    10-15 years isn't that long when one considers that the USAF has been using F-16s for 40 years and are just now getting phased out. When the TIE was introduced it would be reasonable to assume that they out-preformed most other space craft in a dogfight. They were cheap to make, easy to maintain, and no problem with logistics because the Empire's logistics are enormous. No need for a hyper drive because they could be ferried anywhere with Star Destroyers for mobile bases. Now, the X-wing comes along (I'm assuming the old EU way, maybe a year before ANH) and starts to give the Empire a headache. Alright, it's about time to improve the TIE design, let's give Darth Vader a Prototype to try out. Then X-wings blow up the Death Star. *Empire* Hmm, the TIE advanced is too expansive and has inefficient systems. We need an interceptor to destroy the X-wings before they can get close enough to do damage. It has to be fast, have lots of guns, and be cheap and easy to maintain...Let's go with this design. *boom* TIE/IN. *Rebel Alliance* The Empire is coming out with faster TIEs now. We need an interceptor to intercept the interceptor. Let's see...we got these R-22s here. Let's make them faster, and give them superior hyper drive equipment, sensors, and jammers so they can operate without a capital ship. *boom* A-wing.
    We'll have to see if the Super Star Destroyer is under construction at this (Rebels Show) time. That would make an interesting episode. A rebel raid on Fondor. They'd have to fail of course. Maybe just delay the construction of the SSD a little bit to make them feel like they did something.
    The AT-TEs are an old design. The AT-AT is the superior design (and fits the Empires fighting philosophy better) and (as far as I know) the AT-AT also coincided with the Empire's rise. 10-15 is plenty of time to phase out old equipment.
    I think I got you covered.

    @darklordofthetech
    Alright, you got me there. But we've established that they are most likely R-22s. So the A-wing design can still come later.

    jabberwalkie
    Exactly. The rebel cells don't have anyone to develop a sophisticated interceptor for them and aren't organized as group to realize that they need them. Leaving them with old tech like R-22s. That also might make an interesting episode. The liberation of Dac (again). Just hope it isn't dumbed down.

    TheOneX_Eleazar
    The Empire has enormous logistics (and money). 10-15 years is plenty of time to phase out old equipment and the TIEs are purposefully cheap and easy to make. According to old EU TIE/INs had replaced 20% of the TIE/LNs by ROTJ. Assuming that they where produced maybe half way between ANH and ESB, that means 20% of the TIE/LNs were replaced every 1 1/2 years. Assuming that they were meant to replace the TIE/LN (debatable, I'm under the assumption that the TIE/IN does a better job of what the TIE/LNs do at a slightly higher price) and if the where introduced 5 years before ANH, that means that roughly 70% of the TIE/LNs would have been replaced by ANH. Surely we would've seen some on the Death Star. Assuming that the TIE/INs were only meant to replace maybe 40% of the TIE/LNs, then 5 years is more then enough time to replace 40%.
    Next!

    @Vaxor
    Games have the lowest seat on the canon hierarchy. War-machines as portrayed in games most certainly must be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to there capabilities. Which vehicles were better then say, the AT-AT, AT-ST, and ISD at there roles that the GAR had? On the contraire, I believe that the rebels had inferior equipment compared to what the Empire had to throw at them (i.e. AT-ATs at the Battle of Hoth). Allow me to present to you a military model of quantity over quality that worked, the Soviet Union (not to say it's the best military model, but it works). Their MIG series aircraft were very good and cheap. Not to draw a straight analogy, but they share similarities. The best part of the OT is that worn out used look.
    He's reusing stuff because of his budget. Umm...what OR era SDs?
    Ok with first part.
    The German Military during WWII actually separated it's self from politics. So, the lowest level that politics probably entered the Imperial Military was the position of Minister of a Planet. Fleet Admirals are just doing their job, like Piet. The Stormtroopers are like the Gestapo because they answer directly to the Emperor.

    Think I covered everything. This took forever.
     
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  4. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    Hyrum_Solo

    It is not likely the Rebels would be able to acquire Republic military hardware, unless an Admiral defected . Those vehicles which was quite expensive and advanced and they look to out perform anything the Empire has or what the Rebels are using, let alone spare parts for vehicles no longer in production. The Republic military industries, like the Empire would be more secured and guarded and within their own space and influence. The Rebel network seems mostly on the ground militia and resistence fighters rather than some massive fleet and armada which we really don't see until ROTJ when all the Rebels united for a last ditch effort and gamble to attack the 2nd Death Star. The Y-Wing the rebels use is not the same more advanced and armored Y-Wing the clones used either. It is more likely the Empire kept such vehicles in storage and reserve or allocated to specific worlds or melted them all down to fuel their new war machine. The Empire would also have access to Separatist industries and scientists I guess as well. In reality I don't know why the Empire just doesnt use the Tie/D model which is basically a vulture droid and could be made in more swarm numbers and use their human pilots for more advanced vehicles.
     
  5. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I think the capabilities of the Empire are overstated. In Tarkin, Tarkin does not want to fly a TIE. I think he flies a V-wing, iirc (or some other TCW era ship at any rate). The TIEs were new and fragile. He didn't seem to think much of them.

    I know that it might be anticlimactic to think that things actually declined in quality, since generally things escalate in stories (better tech, more powerful villains, etc). But at least when it comes to the standard TIE, it seemed like it traded quality for quantity.

    Speculation: During TCW, the Republic is fractured and is throwing its money into expensive clones and military hardware on order to fight for its existence. But post-war, the Empire has one and is now expanding and annexing independent systems. You need more ships for the same cost, or to acquire vast sums of wealth to offset increased costs to be able to expand, protect supply lines, maintain order, etc.

    So clones (which put the Republic in risk of bankruptcy) get exchanged for recruits who are suggested (even by Rex) to be inferior. But surely they are cheaper. You also have TIEs which are expendable and cheap.

    But you also have the Death Star being built. Which Im sure is extremely expensive, and you have Imperial Star Destroyers and SSDs.

    Costs may have had to have been cut elsewhere.

    But even the capital ships are large but unimpressive. In ANH, the Rebels only won by

    1. Exploitation of an Achilles heel in the Death Star discovered by stealing the plans for it.

    2. Luke having the Force

    3. Han returning

    Removal of any one, and the Empire wins and Luke dies.

    In ROTJ, the fleet above Endor wins in a straight fight. It's like Alexander vs the Persians. The much smaller ship goes after the command ship and takes it out, it slams into the Death Star creating massive damage, and would have left the Imperials in disarray.

    There was no achilles heel outside of Palpatine dragging out the engagement to torment Luke.
     
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  6. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    In a ANH, they won largely the Empire allowing it due to their own stupidity as Lucas designed the Empire to be dimwits. By lack of having Star Destroyer support and allowing Princess Leia to escape. Very few Tie Fighters were even released during the battle of Yavin, actually just Vader and his two wingmen. That wasnt much fighter support at all, was laugahble, made more so now how Vader on Rebels wipes out all those fighters and ships in seconds yet has a late deployment and takes a long while to knock them all down and by then its too late and the Falcon surprised attacked him, does it have stealth?! Vader actually only decided to leave the safely of the Death Star after most of the Rebel fighters were taken out by the flak cannons and by then it was uncovered their attack was leading to a critical weak spot. The Death Star had very little offensive/defensive weapons and its unclear how many fighters it actually had onboard which makes it worse for Tarkin. The flak cannons took down so many fighters only cause the fighters were flying low and doing their own suicidal run. You got this big spherical armored shell housing a large gun. It did not have any long distance smaller cannons or missiles that could've started bombarding the planet. They had to wait a very long time to align the stationary gun at point blank, it was not even like the giant laser can traverse on its own even.

    The design flaw only being noticed by the Rebels is nonsense, as the Empire built the damn thing as well and had those plans and am sure copies of them and all sorts of analysts. Tarkin seems to have taken an experience and not combat proven test vehicle with out adequate support group into a battlefield. He and he alone, was why the Empire blunderously failed, and Vader for his silly allowing them to escape. Both of these characters are not supposed to be novices and making really child mistakes. The Emperor with his great brain and foresight does not learn from this but himself decides to build another monstrous weapon and lets his enemies know real data that could destroy it. His best men lack any intivaite and blindly follow his orders. At one cut scene Palpatine orders Moff Jerjeroid to to fire the death Star on Endor also killing their forces, he expressed horror but in the end obeyed. They would've all never been put in that spot had it not been for the blundering will of Palpatine. Endor did not look well fortified, and they used their own men as live dummies to be killed in the ruse/trap.

    All the better Imperial vehicles came out during the 1990's to the present and were found in other media and not found in the original movies proper(SE added the then 90's newer Imperial transport shuttle), and most of the Empire received various new classes and models and even upgrades in tech and an overhaul in contemporary modernization due to the EU and PT influence. With Rebels they seem to want to retard things back to the original 3 movies and make it more like how it was in 1977, problem with that is they're using Clone Wars stuff and stuff not used in the movies, like Kenner toys and unused concept art some of which looked more advanced than the finished models. Rebels seems to just show Republic spacecraft as abandoned wreaks or re-purposed and Imperialized but so far this is limited to large transport and destroyers. By having an "earlier" model Tie than can land, and the "newer" model that cannot, does not speak of advances but downgrades in the original Tie model even. All we really walk away from with the Empire is that Palpatine is cheap and he holds his own military in low regard to their lives and then in return love him for it. I think they even have all the Tie pilots as fanatics that are proud that their ships are crap basically and they think they're all brave while the ground forces all make fun of them, and air crews in return make fun of the ground forces. Its basically that all the Imperials are fanatical, suicidal, homicidal and lack any true free will and are dim wits they're basically human droids that serve their master like worker ants . All expendable assets and held in contempt. How does Palpatine expect to control the galaxy with an army of buffoons and equipment of inferior worth despite its they have overwhelming numbers its largely junk and the soldiers behind them are the same. But you can make droids faster than humans and even Clones are far superior soldiers and pilots so the trade off does not make sense in any logical manner. Its just basically whatever the writers want this evil Empire to be, and its that and thats it.

    Also looked like all the industry and money went into Palpatine's pet projects like the Death Star 1 and 2 and probably other experimental nonsense of wonder weapons he had envisioned and ordered or Oked. He's like a more insane version of late war Hitler with a more caricature and parody version of his military .
     
  7. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    They didn't deploy TIE fighters because they were utilising the flak guns. If Luke doesn't have the Force the Empire wins and the Rebellion is destroyed. Tarkin's plan almost worked.

    It's an armed Rebellion - they have ways of commandeering old hardware. Besides why would the Empire necessarily maintain large stocks of old hardware, most would have been scrapped or left unguarded (relatively).
     
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  8. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2014
    I already said they used flak guns and why it cost them. Flak turrets were of limited support, only good at a certain ranges and their accuracy was not too good either, they had to keep firing directly in the path the rebels were flying, which was a specific pattern for a reason. And it's not like they were shooting explosive fragmentary rounds . Flak guns alone do not deter fighters and bombers - its like saying Berlin was defended by flak guns but no aircraft. The Death Star's turned out be the Empire's Maginot Line, while the Super Star Destroyer ended up being their Bismark, but all it took to sink that SSD ship was taking out the unarmored bridge,lol.

    The Death Star 2, incomplete or not, appeared now to have lacked flak turrets altogether and relied on the shield generator that was black on Endor beaming its only personal defense, and the Emperor made the opposite mistake, this time he had Star Destroyer support but ordered them to do nothing but remain immobile to block the fleet in, they hardly fired any shots and we saw the outcome of that disaster . Which basically amounted to the same problem that Tarkin made. Unlike Yavin, the Rebels were using a fleet, but lacked destroyers, had the Emperor ordered his Destroyers to open fire that battle would been over in seconds. Instead they used largely ineffective Tie Fighters that were deployed in limited numbers that was mostly engaging in the rebel fighters and fighter bombers and were being outmatched as they lacked armor, shields and heavier firepower - you'd notice most of the Rebel fighters use large heavy cannons and have a complement of missles as compared to the small chin guns of the Tie's and no missiles. In this , the Rebel vehicles more resemble the better armed and armored Republic spacecraft and are more capable of taking down big armored enemy ships on their own. Unlike Vulture droids, Tie's lack missiles and have only their two chin cannons. The Tie Interceptor was better armed with 6 cannons but still lacked missiles, and was not as fast as the A-Wing.

    The Rebel Alliance and network are obviously using new craft and using presupposed standardly obtained civilian market vessels with some field upgrades to be turned into their own military vessels - if what you said his true, then show me where there is all this commandeered old hardware?! In Crimson Empire III, the Empire kept their Republic and early Imperial era vehicles in reserve and well guarded. In fact A-Wings , X-Wings ect. are manufactured by the same companies that made the Republic/ Imperial vehicles, Kuat, Koensayr Manufacturing, Slayn & Korpil and Incom.
     
  9. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    I'm still trying to wrap my head around stormtroopers being Gestapo when by all appearances they are the rank and file military. As such I don't see why they would answer directly to the emperor. If anything, the ISB would be more like the Gestapo.
     
  10. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

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    Jan 23, 2011
    So they made a strategic mistake initially, but they quickly scrambled enough fighters to nearly win. I don't see the problem?


    In Rebels they utilise an old Republic medical frigate, and we see heaps of Republic hardware laying around. Besides that fact why would they go for the old hardware when there is newer ships like the X-Wings, etc. If they could commandeer new hardware like the X-wing or the A-wing they could get the Republic hardware, not to mention the Y-wings. Do you think the Empire just stored it away? What a waste when they could recycle the parts?
     
  11. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 1, 2015
    Exactly. Although I hold this gripe more for the PT, TCW, and SWR then the OT.

    Thank you guys for the best discussion that I've had in ages. To show my appreciation, I'll treat you with a little joke

    Kanan: Zeb, get ready with the Electro-magnetic...grappling...thingy.
    Zeb: I've got a lock...Care-Bear-Fest! Those kriffing Imperials used plastic containers this time.
     
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  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Indeed. Even the original "stormtrooper" rank:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmmann

    was more associated with other groups - the SA, the SS.
     
  13. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 1, 2015
  14. stellarmagic01

    stellarmagic01 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I'd actually argue that the bikers we see in Rebels are Imperial Army Biker Scouts, based on their uniforms. They're pretty close to how the Imperial Army is supposed to look. Maybe Lothal has a reconnaissance or cavalry army formation (Hence the bikers, AT-AT pilots, and transport crews looking a bit like the Imperial Army uniform), and a stormtrooper infantry formation on the planet.
     
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  15. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 1, 2015
    I had that theory too, but we should really see more foot soldiers not piloting a vehicles. Also the Army uniform could probably differ a little bit from planet to planet.

    TaradosGon
    Not a decline of technology, but a degradation of military philosophy (if you go by the old EU the X-wing started out as Imperial technology). The Empire is vast. It has the logistics to run the Empire, what it doesn't have is enough space ships to protect the Empire. The Alliance knows this and exploits the Empire's only weakness, it's too big. They achieved this by using hit and fade attacks. Dropping out of hyperspace, utilizing the element of surprise and causing as much damage as they can, and then jumping back into hyperspace before the Imperials can counter attack. The Rebels can attack anywhere from anywhere. To avoid looking weak the Empire has to protect everything. The only way to do this is to spread out its forces. The beauty of it is this; the Empire has to weaken its self to appear strong (if you've played Risk or any strategy game for that matter, then you know what I mean). Hence the quantity over quality mentality. The TIE isn't exactly of low quality either, unless you judge quality by durability. The TIE shared the minimalist mentality of the Eta-2 Actis and had good acceleration and maneuverability (the two usually aren't associated together, because one is usually traded for the other). In the hands of a good pilot, the TIE could be a killer machine, i.e. Darth Vader, Soontir Fel, and Shea Hublin. It's just less forgiving to less skilled pilots. A good analogy would be the Japanese "Zero" (TIE fighter) vs F4F "Wildcat" (X-wing). Both very good fighters that were evenly matched (for every advantage one had, the other could exploit the others disadvantage) so the outcome of a dogfight between the two would be determined by the skill of the pilot. Assuming both pilots are novices then the will both make mistakes. For every mistake the other pilot makes, the more advantages you get. The pilot with more durability fighter (the X-wing) will be more able to survive the mistakes he makes and learn from them. The TIE fighter has the speed and maneuverability edge in a dogfight, but will be less likely to survive if he makes a mistake. And while numbers do not win a battle, the certainly help hence the quantity. TIEs are also easy and cheap to make for the purpose of covering up the Empire's weakness, it's size.
     
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  16. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    The TIEs are being produced during a time where there isn't a Rebel Alliance. There are individual cells, which if Phoenix Squadron is anything to go off of, are pitifully small. Thus, I would think a star destroyer with a compliment of TIEs would be more than a match for the most cells. Maybe the Rebels can "afford" to make more mistakes and still survive, but the Imperials are expendable. Say each Rebel ship shoots down two fighters before being destroyed itself. By sheer numbers, the Imperials would still win.

    So, let's say 15 rebel ships vs. 40 Imperial ships. The rebels inflict 2:1 casualties, but the Imperials walk away with 10 survivors, while the Rebels are dead to the last man.

    But not only that, their losses are less costly. There's more patriots lined up to serve in the Imperial Navy, and more TIEs rolling out of factories. While the salvaged ships of the Rebels are not so easily replaced, nor are there a bunch of people lined up to join the Rebels. So those 30 Imperial casualties are probably replaced within days. While those 15 Rebel casualties could be crippling.
     
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  17. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 1, 2015
    Because the Empire is intent on expanding.
    If the rebels are smart they will use their size to their advantage. Their small size allows them to hide very well. When the Empire comes to look for them the will have to leave something unguarded, and that is when the rebels strike. You would not be able to swat a mosquito that's flying around you, you may not even see it. But when it lands on your skin and takes a bite, it has to be very quick to escape the irresistible force of your hand. Even if you crush it, it will still have taken the bite and you'll be sore of it for a while. Of course rebel cells will not win a straight out fight with the Empire, but the can inflict damage and undermine the Empire with guerilla tactics.
    Isn't it odd that the in all of the times we've seen ISDs in SWR, not one fires a single shot. Capturing the spirit of the OT indeed.
    This reinforces my point that the Empire will win in a straight out fight (although you are leaving out several major factors in your battle scenario, which is alright I guess).
     
  18. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    I understand that the Rebels aren't looking to win a straight out fight. Something like the Empire would require vast sums of money and well maintained supply lines. Communication breakdown, pillaging equipment, or interfering with manufacturing would cost vast sums of money that might make the Empire pull out of a system due to sustained deficits in holding it and contract to a more manageable size. By and large that's how rebel cells tend to win to begin with in the real world. But this is just in theory in regards to the SWU, but I'm not aware of the Empire abandoning a system to Rebel tenacity.

    There's also the factor of interfering with the Empire's ability to manage its territories, such that the affected systems become disgruntled with the Empire. But that enters a more morally gray area, wherein the Rebels would be the cause of Imperial inefficiency that turns opinion against the Empire.
     
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  19. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 1, 2015
    At this point in time (Rebels show) the rebels haven't had much time to undermine the Empire thus, the Empire probably hasn't given up an star systems yet. Guerilla wars take years and we have yet to see how this affected the Empire 30 years from ROTJ.
    A morally gray that shouldn't be avoided.
     
  20. redlightning

    redlightning Jedi Knight star 4

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    Feb 1, 2014
    Does the new canon establish when the storm trooper core started to replace the clones? It's easy to imagine that as the clones age this process is very slow.
     
  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    In the Tarkin novel (5 years after ROTS), there's aged clonetroopers in the stormtrooper corps - but I think it's implied that they're getting rare.
     
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  22. anakincol

    anakincol Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jul 28, 2009
    Also it seems rebels season 2 will directly address the change for clonetroopers to stormtroopers as well.
     
  23. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 28, 2003
    I'd be curious as to why the abrupt change. 5 years = 10 years worth of biological aging. The clones as of ROTS would only have been 26 biologically. 36 years old biologically by the time frame of Tarkin, which is not too old to be a soldier AT ALL. Hell, the US army I think takes people until they're 35, so people could be one year into their career at that age. Perhaps Order 66 and the biochips were like a one shot thing that ensured the clones carry out Order 66 but had side effects later on (making clones mentally unstable or something). Even in the sneak preview of the season 2 episode with the clones, one of them seems not entirely 100% mentally. And as I mentioned in another thread, just because they have their chips removed, doesn't mean that they necessarily had them removed BEFORE Order 66. Rex probably did, that's what's implied. But maybe the other two were clones he rescued from the bio chip's influence post-Order 66.

    That clones would be getting rare a mere 5 years after Order 66 seems like it would have to be due to the Empire actively pushing them out of service, not because of their age. Whether it's a PR thing to appease the population (the clones weren't popular during TCW) or whether they develop defects, or some other explanation, I don't know. But I don't think they just retired at the ripe old biological age of 36.
     
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  24. Hyrum_Solo

    Hyrum_Solo Jedi Knight star 3

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    Jul 1, 2015
    Clones make up 1/3 of the stormtrooper corps by 0 aby.
     
  25. TheOneX_Eleazar

    TheOneX_Eleazar Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 24, 2013
    36 isn't too old, but it also isn't young either. By 36 you are well past your physical prime. The odds that you would be an elite soldier anymore are slim. At that age you are better suited for command positions, not the front lines, especially with 8 years of military wear and tear on your body. I would expect most clones are retired from service by their physical age of 30. With that said, 36 would be the oldest clones. Based on what we see in AOTC they are still producing new clones who wouldn't be coming of military age for another 9 years, and that is assuming they didn't start growing any new clones after AOTC. Unless they decided to massacre those (millions?) of clones there should still be plenty of clones out there.