Lit THE END...

We all know Star Wars is there to stay and outlive us all. Yet Episode IX will be THE END for a while, before they move beyond it. Aside that, there are other Endings too, of personal story arcs and fates, or eras or even of series, comic runs and else. Every good tale needs a good end. It stands or falls with a proper end. So what do we expect from such a good end for Star Wars and what do we believe is required for it? An end does not mean one never will move beyond it, nor that it has to be the last point in the timeline. It needs to a capper to the main story and drive all points home and satisfyingly, shockingly or any other way resolve the arcs.

This topic is not for wild fanfiction and theories like I posted in headcanon or Episode IX topics. I rather intend it to discuss all kinds of Ends SW had and will have, as well as what open arcs or plotpoints still need to be resolved. What we expect and wish for is part of that discussion, yet should not turn to headcanon and fantheory 101.

Let me start:


Star Wars Legends (still THE Expanded Universe to me) was cut off by a reboot. It had some stories that served as a capper but a lot of arcs and fates remained in limbo and unfinished. Had it had at least one more year to properly close off all open major arcs, characters and such, I'd feel happier about the reboot. Such a capping needs not only to happen furthest in the timeline but across all eras I think. There is always more to be told but one can find peace if there are no open ends, even if the ends leave room for more. Return of the Jedi was a great end for a time, NJO The Unifying Force as well is epic as an end. Crucible was ending some yet set up more and not really closed it off. Legacy comics were cut off with too many open ends. Likewise other comic series in other eras.

Meanwhile new canon too had its share of ends. TCW ended, and will do so again next year. Rebels ended. December Marvel comic lines will end before next year something new restarts comicwise. Episode IX has big expectations regarding it ends a saga, a family and a trilogy as well as much more, many characters arcs over 1-3 trilogies etc.
As TCW and Rebels showed, meaningful impactful ends were great and well done, yet characters lives went on. Only the galaxy had changed with the gamechanger ending or the group of characters had separated to go different paths but they are still out there and bound to return some day (I hope). End on a high note instead of running the show to exhaustion is a good advise. Fans crave more but remember it always as pure golden win instead of dragging on till a slow death.

Episode IX is another big turning point not only for the galaxy but the saga. Whoever survives it does not matter. What matters most is that it resolves the threads that began the saga. No neverending series of wars, no dystopian evil never dies, no fairy tale good guys win happily ever after either. Chronologically, the Prequels began with a prophecy of a Choosen One and bringing balance to the Force (misread as it could have been) and subsequently his rise and fall. Hope prevailing in Dark Times, it was claimed there is another and even if what was once interpreted as one generations task turned to the legacy of several. Be that the original plan or due to failure of the first is a debate for other times. But I suspect balance will be restored and we learn what balance means. We already got told that if one side tips the scale, the other rises to meet it, no matter if light or dark start the imbalance. Even if some dislike a grey resolution, or rather light and dark joined/working together, not merged, that may happen. Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe Star Wars surprises us all and tells us after Do not trust visions that we should not trust prophecies either? The Prequels had both sides set all hope in one being and it failed under the pressure torn between light and darkness. Anakin failed the older generations. The next generation tried to pick up the torch and stand firm yet also faltered briefly and unleashed a new terror as Luke failed the next younger generation creating Kylo Ren. Yet both sides, light and dark learned of their orders failure and subsequent purges: Snoke and Kylo attempt a more balanced approach despite being evil, likewise Luke and Rey do the very same from another perspective. Light and Dark never has been less separated before and even worked in unision in TLJ throne room fight. Like a pendulum swinging ever closer. From many Jedi and Sith in the Prequels (cause despite the Rule of Two we had several Sith apprentices which makes more sense now) to two vs two in the original trilogy, to one on one in the Sequels.
In a way the Sequels show us to not place our faith in saviors and heroes to do it for us but stand up ourselves and do something. Finn, Rose, Broomboy, they all teach a message like that. Rose believes herself to be small and saw Finn as a hero. Disappointment in your heroes is a theme in TLJ (Luke for Rey, Finn for Rose, Holdo for Poe,...) they all learn to do it themselves. They also learn to do it the right way, to be an example, not a cocky one man army flightshow, nor a suicidal fool, nor sitting things out and despairing afraid of collateral damage. Poe learned at great cost what many superheroes in Marvel and DC need still to realize: collateral of their heroism! Save what you love, don't fight what you hate. Fighting and hate turns them blind to collateral, saving though does not! In that regard, Holdo's sacrifice was to save those she left behind and loved. Finn's copy paste attempt at Crait flying suicidal though would not have worked and was foolish.
So would it be too far reaching to say, we learned to not need a Choosen One but stand up and be all choosen ones together? Everybody, every nobody (!) can do it. There is no superbeing needed, no Force prodigy (which probably was a lie by Shmi anyway to make Anakin sound more interesting to the Jedi and save him from slavery! Clever woman). The Prophecy was misread. Yet there is one thing it did achieve. It set things in motion that will come to an end soon. Even if the hopes, interpretations and all that placed in the prophecy were false or misread, it served its purpose anyway and that is all it was needed for. To get things in motion, people and chess pieces in place. The Force guides/manipulates all often without people understanding or knowing why. Why does death exist? Why do people need to suffer? The Force/God is evil or not caring? Nope... pain is a teacher and the Force allows it to exist so everyone with his/her free will can choose his/her path. Karmy baby! You can do as you please but it all serves as a lesson for yourself and others to learn the true values and find your way back to the Force, one way, or another.

Sorry for that longer rant but I had to elaborate some themes and currents within the Sequels and Saga overall that may come into play in the end. However they do it, whatever end they choose, however open to interpretation it will be for everyone, we'll see. I bet it is crafted in a way that both, those that like grey or working together light and dark and those that hate it and prefer a clearcut victory will believe they got what they wanted.


As for other ends and character arcs...

Characters need not reach old age if their end is done well. But some I wish to see for a while longer. Personally I can't wait to learn more about Sabine Wren, Ezra Bridger, Doctor Aphra, Lina Graf, Ahsoka Tano and others after their last appearance timeline wise. I wonder if it is wise to wait months or years till we learn more about them? Yet I can understand why they drag out some stories and do not rush out all asap. Some characters are so good interest in them keeps up over longer times. Or you see them again many years inuniverse later and if fans wait as long in real life, its like they grew up with them and meet them again in real time. In general I wish for stories where fans and fav characters age in real time like Legends had with the generation of Jaina and Jacen Solo for many years before jumping ahead. Using up all tales about certain characters now would need more as much liked characters to keep fans interested in the future. They balance creating new with keeping old favs around but I hope they do not overplay their hand and wait too long.


With Episode IX the big mystery endpoint (for now at least) and next few years tying the entire saga together with backstories and Sequel leadups across all eras, I do wonder what the next big marker for SW will be after IX.
We sure got many announced projects that are big and epic be it for tv or the movie trilogies in whatever era they place them.
They might open an all new era in distant past or future as Legends used to do. All new characters, tales and freedom to write. Aside some KOTOR or LEGACY paralell expectations from fans and the obvious callbacks to the OT in design and story, this has the most opportunities to create a longterm all new Star Wars to go on with for decades.
If going to the future I hope they leave more than 100 years before a new conflict arises, 1000 or more even maybe. The 9 movie Sagas legacy and meaning for said future may be explored along new stories and with the new era beginning, one might even add spinoffs set after the Sequels to resolve the fates of the Sequel survivors. In a way the future would be more free to craft than the past where mirroring KOTOR in success or story is on one hand wanted by fans, on another a dangerous task if they get it wrong and some fans will always complain.

Will there be another reboot down the line, a remake? Probably if Marvel and DC are any example. But that may be 30+ years in the future.


Personal character ends of Legends and canon that are memorable and epic:
-Ganner's Last Stand in NJO Traitor (Legends)
-Jacen Solo in LOTF: Invincible (Legends), sad but well written book and even if one disagreed with some paths taken with that character it was memorable and epic
-Kanan Jarrus, Rebels tv show (canon)
-Thrawn's death in Legends
-Ahsoka walking away from the Jedi in TCW (not final end but a great one)
-Everybody in Rogue One, especially the Tantive IV Rebels that faced Vader
-Luke Skywalker in TLJ
-Han Solo in TFA (everybody expected him to die with the Falcon or flying but this fit him and his new father role so much better, he no longer was the young flyboy)
-Holdo's selfsacrifice in TLJ
-...

Not every character has to die or get a last stand or suicide run. Han's fate was unexpected but fit old Han more than what one imagined for young Han once in ROTJ. Ackbars unglorious end in TLJ was not liked by fans including me, but I get it. It's war, it happens, glory is not for everyone, even if you deserve it. Ackbar likewise beloved by fans like new character Tallie Lintra died in the same way, horribly and not with a glorious final act of heroism like f.e. Paige Tico or Amilyn Holdo did.

Some go quietly in their sleep like Yoda and maybe Leia in IX for she has a Yoda kinda role given her wisdom and since TLJ passed the leadership torch, she got not much left to do. Others may live ordinary lives and do their part to the cause in other ways like Owen and Beru did despite their gruesome unfair end. We all love to see Poe in a cockpit, but even if he does some stunts once more early on, I doubt he will revert to cocky flyboy after his evolution in TLJ. Like Han he may get a different fate out of the cockpit with the big picture now clearer to him. Rose already grew much over TLJ and has a new albeit smaller role in IX possibly as leadership roles TLJ blew up with the bridge are filled by the younger cast now.

As for the evolution of the villains and their ultimate fates?

The Prequels had mixed bag of villains, some behind the curtain, others on both sides, and yet others clearcut and defeated in the end. Some villains got away with it, or won in ROTS, others got rounded up and slain or punished and yet others became antiheroes as heroes became villains.
The OT was less mixed presenting clearcut sides battling it out, yet over the course of three movies, each side tried to convert the other to their cause. In the end a villain became a hero yet died after of injuries. The good won and Palpatine was gone (for now believed dead).
The Sequels now though once more present us a mixed bag of villains. Early one we see supposed villains defy orders and defect via Finn. We see Kylo Ren whose family legacy is good, not evil to walk in his grandfathers footsteps yet torn by both sides despite leaning more on the evil side. But tantrums and instability make him conflicted. Snoke too talks in riddles that sound more balanced than dark yet his actions reveal his true darkness. Then came TLJ and muddled the waters even more not just in marketing but story itself. The heroes were painted as villains with Luke and Holdo who only later showed their true goodness. Rey was tempted by the dark several times. And even if Snoke is a goner, Kylo was torn and tempted by the Light more so than ever before. Hux, Phasma and other villains were there too, even DJ in the middle neither ally nor villain. And it was the heroes, Finn and Rose, hunted by law enforcement and police on Canto Bight, not villains. Villains did freely enjoy their life on Canto Bight as the alien mishandling the child slaves or the rich and powerful warprofiteers who are villains in their own right living untoucheable. Hux is a clearcut villain in the beginning that may not see redemption but choose for other reasons (frustration? revenge?) to try a different path though if he will be successful or rather see that one cannot out of the wrong reasons do the right thing in the end. Nor can one do the wrong things for the right reasons as other villains may learn like Kylo.
How it ends is still open.

But the evolution of the villains already resembles a pattern. Yin and Yang!
The PT has heroes and villains, and Palpatine hiding in the middle of the heroes, whereas there is also a hero hiding in the middle of the villains loyalist Bail Organa in ROTS!
The OT too follows this pattern but there are no more people hiding in the others side. The Death Star took out Alderaan and Bail and the Emperor lost control over the Rebellion if he ever had/intended on (as Legends The Force Unleashed by Lucas tried). Instead, Vader tries to turn Luke and Luke tries to turn Vader, each side attempting to create new One hiding/aiding from within the other side. As Luke defies his Jedi training and early on in TLJ looks darker choking Gamorreans, one suspects Luke might fall, yet ultimately it is Vader returning to the light that ends the cycle and destroys the darkness from within, evil turning on itself.
But no side can be without the other, so the ST and its backstory, rebirthed the dark side from within the light as Ben fell and became Ren. Light rises and darkness to meet it. Scales balanced more or less again, Yin and Yang spun and turned faster and faster closing in on the end of the pendulum dance. Snoke, a darksider talking balance and taking into account the light and Luke , a Lightsider aware and integrating the dark/shadow gone, Rey and Kylo duel it out, sometimes together, sometimes at odds. Is Rey Light and Kylo Darkness? Is she darkness (her mysterious origin) hiding in the light, as Ben is light (still torn), hiding in the darkness?

The story is Yin and Yang in motion, evolution and ultimately resolution with IX.


enough of me, I could go on... more later. Now though what do you have to say about Ends and arcs and themes and where they might lead?

 

I think that TROS will end much like ROTJ did, only not have Ben die, and have him have to live with the guilt of what he did and learn how to overcome that guilt, I feel like that would be refreshing in a way.

 

The story never ends though.

All stories go on and on and on, so long as people tell them, and imagine them continuing.

 

This is the end....But the moment has been prepared for ;p

 

Things can be ending and still leave room for more, Avengers: Endgame and Revenge of the Sith pretty much pull this off easily. Even in Star Wars, some endings should stay endings. The biggest example of this personally for me is Dark Empire. 1 comic miniseries. Didn't need the other ones after it. It's totally an ending. Sure there was and should have been Star Wars stories after that but Dark Empire itself just should have been one thing.

 

Funny how you mention Dark Empire when it comes to endings

 

Tell that to my beloved Legends


Dark Empire was a nice post ROTJ addition and end beyond the end with hopeful outlook at the next generation's future in one panel and the rebuilding galaxy not shown as utopia but as all getting better now finally. In that regard it worked well! I even can see the need for Dark Empire 2 with clones and endless returns an issue to be explained. But Empires End really went downhill fast.

Another nice endpoint despite story continuing had been the UNION comic, my fav of all comics to this day. The end of the YJK book series before the NJO also was hopeful and interesting.

 

Not sure if I need to put spoilers on this since this is more projecting but just to be safe I will

Spoiler

On the conceptual level Episode 9 being the Dark Empire of the Post ROTJ NuCanon set of storytelling i find more fitting ....At least for my own views of how endings and Star Wars ending should happen then being square in the early parts of post ROTJ stories.

 

I USED to feel this way about DE, because I always thought the sequels were diminished returns, but now I think each brings something awesome to the table and I love them all equally.

 

I too really like DE 2 and EE I honestly think it makes the story better. I love DE and all but ...Sometimes i think it's too short.

 

The Unifying Force was the end. There is nothing after that.

 

Darth Krayt disagrees.

 

@ColeFardreamer

Here is something interesting about Star Wars, is that we are always moving the goalpost of what "THE END" is.

When George was making ROTJ he had that in mind as ....THE END....No more Star Wars after that to him that was "THE END" the "AND THEY LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER" ....Then the EU happened.

And then when we got NuCanon and the ST the goalpost of the THE END, was moved to Episode 9, for that is now the new "THE END"

Star Wars is a odd franchises of moving it's goalposts of what was what from the time they were made.

 

That is very true, great post. In a way it allows people to choose their end as many did with TUF. But it also rejuvenates the saga in that it goes on and adds and changes the universe. You can move stuff without reboots is a good concept. Some ends are more final than others, even if only for a time, EpiIX I hope is such an end that will last not forever but be a tentpole for some time to come.

Cue Episodes 10-12.

Or if one actually can pull it off, do Prequels to the Prequels. That may not fit numbering wise but like Rogue One and Solo add a lot needed stuff to the saga even if not part of the numbering.

Regarding moving goalposts: There is always a bigger fish! Or larger myth envelopping the current one! Like the Hobbit grew into a saga within the Lord of the Rings epic, within the Simarillon etc.

 

Oh Star Wars is all about recontxulization for sure.

My favorite video game franchise Kingdom Hearts did this with "THE XEHANORT SAGA" because Kingdom Hearst 3 was supposed to be THE END to that saga (Aka the story that was started from the first Kingdom Hearts game back in 2002) but it was never planned out that way that's just sorta how the overarching story evolved from 2002-2019 and then whatever the next Kingdom Hearts game will be the start of a new saga (Although the main character remains the same)

Episode 9 is doing what Kingdom hearts 3 did is that is' gonna recotexulize everything that started with ANH to today as "The Skywalker Saga" and if we get 10-12, it might be the start of a new saga.

 

Can they really ever start a new saga that is not tied to or rooted in the OT? I know why the Sequels are a nostalgia feast. But will a new saga work, that has neither Jedi, nor Sith, nor Skywalkers or Solos, nor McQuarrie as visual cues or John Williams as musical ones?

SW needs to be fresh and new and the Prequels were a great mix of new and old elements. At the time fans backleashed because of the new unfamiliar stuff. Now they do because of the too familiar nostalgia in the ST. Thus, will every new saga and expansion be a recontextualisation? Or will it really break new ground in a big way and it still is SW?

Can SW be SW if... if what? If it hits the cues the OT and Saga hit without using the elements that did hit those? Or can SW break totally new ground and still be SW in an unstarwary way? What makes Star Wars Star Wars? Is it the setup and style of storytelling? Campbellian Myth? The way and art of how it is done more so than the with what it is done?

SW can survive non-Williams new composters, we already had a great share of those. SW has many art influences outside of McQuarrie too already. What of SW has to remain like Status Quo and what is free to be changed? Techlevels? Oddities like timetravel or else?

The books tried it all the time, NJO was breaking a lot of new ground yet remained true to a lot of Campbellian myth and storytelling cues. Joe Schreiber did great Horror SW some felt did not fit SW but I loved it. TV tries new formats that moviefans were not used to and learned to love.

So what is this new saga gonna be like, what should it or shouldn't it? What is free to be recontextualised and what should not be changed? Fans already debate if they are ok with the identity of the Choosen One and his/her success/failure being recontextualised. Or quotes like "There is another" reinterpreted to mean someone else than previously thought.

How about a story humanising young Palpatines fall and telling how he got to be the man he is? From likeable to monster, breaking bad, instead of always the jerk. What if deconstructing our heroes twists and turns the saga on its head? Jedi from heroes to flawed is already a theme.

 

Funny enough I was just talking about this on a podcast I got to call into and I made a suggestion that the next Saga...Or maybe Trilogy ...Be essentially what I dubbed a "MORTIS TRILOGY" ...That to me is the next logical step.....Get into the metaphysics of the force....Go all out Mortis and Yoda Arc and explore the ancient mysteries and origins of the Force itself.

Essentially what I think George Lucas was sorta building up too with those TCW episodes and what little he's talked about when it came to "His Sequel Trilogy"

My hope it is directed by Rian Johnson.

Bring in the Whills, Celestials, the Gods.....Something mystical and wild.

 

SOLD, take my money! This is the same I always want and talk about

 

Thank you

Idk it just seems to me that a trilogy or saga exploring those elements seems like the most natural place to go that still feels part of “the myth”

I once thought the ST would be this (not that I mind) before becoming a more meta-commentary on the OT and PT to a extent.

Again not that I have not been unhappy with what we’ve been getting so far.

Though what one would do beyond a “figuring out the creation of the force” arc in terms of 13-15 and beyond is a mystery to me

 

One thing I like about Supernatural Encounters is that it provides closure for a lot of ambiguous things in the Legendsverse, though of course, given its own wobbly canon status it's probably up to the individual whether to count it or not.

 

What did that wrap up if I may ask?

 

Various minor characters with ambiguous fates, explanations for a lot of ancient eldritch stuff, and a very interesting window into the ultimate fate of the Galaxy itself.

 

Regarding Supernatural Encounters, I love it but it is not perfect either. It too much dives into Cuthulu-paralells and gods and eldritch horror akin to Stephen King. It has its place and is great, but overall I think, it is an old Marvel lovestory. If one elevates the old Marvel entities to gods is one way to go, another is to place them below the Force and that is how Mortis etc. worked for a time, keeping not gods but the Force on toplevel whereas for Supernatural the Force is just one part of it all, not the ultimate level.
And the end Supernatural provided is more a projection that "all will be fine and everyone redeemed in afterlife" than actually closing some storylines off. Especially given it is set not after Legacy but before and in between some books. Some characters that experienced what happened in Supernatural feel out of character if having said knowledge and still acting like they did in the books set thereafter. I'd have place supernatural a decade or two later than it had been. I love how it adressed the multiverse and other elements though.
What we need is a Supernatural Encounters styled event that closes off open story and character fates across all eras and fits all styles and explanations inuniverse, not just eldritch one.



Lucas Sequel trilogy would have been different yet hit many of the same marks for sure. But he'd have cut some nostalgia in favor of other background details and sitequests told through a variety of visual, musical and character story cues. Like the PT, the ST needs a tv show between 8 and 9 that adresses all this and adds what is missing. Pity Resistance won't last longer than Season 2. New show then already in the works and that is why Resistance is capped? probably!


Yet with the movies touching the Mortis etc. stuff aka vision cave and other bits less direct than TCW and Rebels did, keeping it at an TESB vision cave temple level, I think we have a perfect setup to continue the Force deepdive with Ezra Bridger, Ahsoka and other characters one day on tv or movies.

Ezra literally is a Bridger and his fate is not always tied to Thrawn. So once Thrawns involvement and return is resolved, maybe even with Thrawn exploring Forcerelated art, we can continue the deep dive. I bet his story is tied to exploring Palpatines other observatories and the Unknown Regions, as well as ancient sites and more WBW connections. Now that timetravel gateways are canon lets use them but not for the same old timetravel paradox issues of classic timetravel stories. Lets use them properly, new, fresh and Star Wars style!

Ok, forgive me a personal little headcanon for it fits here: Whills may be a short form of "Wizards on the Hills"... myth always has a wise man and wizard on the hill, as Prime Jedi and later Luke on Ach-to. The Apprentice seeking the Master and passing tests until he is worthy. Its classic myth. So why not? If my headcanon theory is correct about the meaning of the name Whills, then the Whills are the first Forceusers that once were the Prime Jedi etc. and the first to ascend and become more powerful than one can possibly imagine. Living in the Force only now and being literally like Gods. Yet as it happens, gods are too much like the living, they can be flawed and tempted and corrupted and some evil Whills may have originated the imbalance and started a war amongst the gods that transcended down to the mortal plane in paralell. In a way Microcosm of the Force (as Lucas wants it) is the very same as the Macrocosm of Life and the Force (with ascension and Gods, the multiverse etc.). Up is down, inside is outside. An atom looks like a star system, there are many more paralells. So the war in the macrocosm is the same as the war in the microcosm, the cancer of darkness rising and light to meet it.
I think we will learn a great deal more about the Whills. Force Priestesses and Mortis Gods are ascended beings that once were mortal. Maybe the next stage after Force Ghosting if you take a special role and not merge into the ocean of the Force? Well, the Whills are in the Force as Lucas said himself, so the ascended people paralell fits and they express themselves either through Ghosts or Shamans that can communicate with them. Some can appear or talk, others only send visions and be cryptic. Why, story reasons and probably some convoluted inuniverse explanation.

Back to using the WBW etc. in stories with Ezra Bridger and Ahsoka. How did she become Ahsoka the White? I suspect she travelled and sought out other sites that might access the WBW to prevent the Empire finding and using them by either rendering them inactive or removing them as Ezra did the Lothal temple. And I think she met others that are guarding them too and joined them. Guardians of the Whills? An order built on guarding the sites, not using them. Of not using/abusing the Force but protecting it! In the same way, Ezra will have been on the other side. Ahsoka covering the known galaxies sites as Ezra does the unknown regions ones with Thrawn?
I'd not even be opposed of really out there timetravelling stories including loops and whatever. A new level of war and guarding time.

 

@ColeFardreamer

I definitely think there will be new shows that will fill that role TCW did for the PT in terms of....Expanding the universe of the ST era, (Of course as I always say the movies should stand on there own) but I do think will get that...I think The Mandalorian will also fill that role, Resistance has definitely helped in that regard in terms of showing how the Galaxy functions.

I'm more curious if the Ezra/Thrawn/Ashoka story will be it's own thing, or will it be told through a Luke/BenSolo filter...meaning they will cross, or will they go there own paths.

Heck Ashoka could show up in the Mandalorian Season 2 for all we know.

Edit: I think Resistance was always sorta a filler series in terms of Rebels and the next long season show. But man for a "Filler Series" if people will call it...It sure was a good one, for it knew what it wanted to be and told it's story to the fullest....Hopefully (Season 2 pending)