Characters The Enigmatic and Mysterious Count Dooku - Happy Life Day Sir Christopher Lee! (27 May)

Curious to know which part of the EU you don't like? The fact that it sorta gives him 'personality' while the movies juz makes him a 'plot filler' and a 'last minute' addition like Qui-Gon was for TPM?

I like EU due to that reason - giving him a personality and somewhat of a background (LoE and DR mainly...hmmm a few comics as well).

I don't like 'plot fillers' those are so annoying..but then again GL/LFL are known for that aren't they?

LoE, DR, and the cartoons were pretty sweet, I agree!

 

The EU is mostly (MOSTLY) hogwash

I meant the Palpatine stuff. Dark Empire when the Emperor is cloned like 5 times and keeps comming back again, and again, and again.

Then they paint him as this sort of Necromancer kind of thing that can jump his soul from clone to clone, or at the very end, body to body.

THEN, that REALLY, REALLY, dumb death by a BLASTER SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

That should not have been his FINAL death!
That was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong. (unless I missed something, he has never returned since then. Has he?)

That alone made me hate the whole cloned Emperor thing. His FINAL and TOTAL Death for me is at the end of ROTJ when Anakin, rightfully the tool that Palpatine used and abused for the better part of 22 years, plunges him into the very core of the evil weapon he had developed to destroy good creatures and people.
That was a good and well done end. (and fantastic end scene)

Being shot by a blaster, by Han Solo?????????????? NO! That just is WRONG!!!!

I'm all for cloning and I do sort of like his soul transfer idea, but after doing it like 3 times or whatever, that's just......
After a while, I found myself telling him to die already.
Palpatine is the most amazing character as far as masterminds are concerned. But c'mon. Even he has to stay dead.
And that just makes Anakin's turn back and fullfillment of destiny so much less satisfying. It fits that Palpatine get killed by his little project.
Also, 16 year old Palpatine????
22 year old Palpatine?

I hope that none of you really care for DE Clone Emperor series. If so, just disreguard the whole post.

Dooku's EU, is rather OK.
I know what LLL is talking about I think.
There are a couple of writtings painting him as this hateful bigot or Hitlerisc individual who wants to rule an EMPIRE OF MAN.
I don't know what to think about this really.

You might think at first glance Dooku's a plot filler.
But actually, he's SO much more of a character when put up against Maul.
And that voice.... I could listen to Christopher Lee talk for a very long time.

 

I don't like that version either...and it doesn't match any of the other writer's version. Sooo not too sure if that was a fluke or what.

Ohhh yes! That man's voice... great leaping lizards... *dreamy sigh*

And the Empire comics...well they are ok. But I agree about the essence hopping. A couple times I can believe...but the continual? Naaaah. I have all those comics I enjoy them and ignore that minor detail in it.

 

That's what I'm talking about!!!

And it really creases me.



I had a thought. Why Dooku originally opened himself to the idea of turning: It was the only way to become powerful enough to do what he believed needed to be done.

Which begs the question: Either he knew Palpy wasn't going to be a good ruler ... or he didn't. Did Palpy misrepresent himself even more than what we know about? Or did Dooku have some idea of possibly bumping him off?

If he did, that doesn't tally with what he does in LOE.

 

Sorry for getting so worked up about DE.
I just think Palpy deserved a better final death.
Maybe a duel with Luke or something...anything really.
I like his movie death though.

Oh yes, I assume you've enjoyed Saruman too?
It's the exact same thing. I can listen to him talk for long long time.
Now, Saruman was a Hitler-like person. That is not really a question there. But Dooku.....Nah, no no no! That was an attempt to make him more evil I think. It doesn't work all too well.

I think his "vision" for the Galaxy was a bit more sinister. Because we don't really know what it is.
I assume he would have been the President/Chancellor of a collection of Systems. The gist of that one deleted AOTC scene seems to say that he would rule over a collection of businessmen.

That's if he stayed with the COIS.
What he would have done with Palpatine is be a second man like Vader was. His being too old to overthrow Palpy? Oh, I don't know what to think of that either. For someone who seemed driven in AOTC, does it make a whole lot of sense for him to throw in the towel?
Well, that was all farse really.
Wasn't the plan for Dooku to give up and then rule with Palpy later on?
None of that matters. Clearly Dooku was told by Palpatine to give up. That's why he didn't use the lightning.
It just went bad......REALLY BAD.

 

Oh, I don't like the DE series either.

The whole idea was to put Luke through the wringer, which it did, but Palpy was a crazed maniac.

And there's only but so many times you can do something before it becomes silly.

First time is funny, second time is silly, third time is a spanking.

 

Yeah, well most of the EU beyond the Saga I've never really gotten into. It just seems unecessary because Star Wars was mostly the story of Anakin Skywalker. Once he is dead, what's the point?

Clone Wars EU is OK.
Luckily that deals with Dooku.

 

If you don't believe anything ever really dies, there could be some point.

 

I've wondered if curiousity could have been part of his reason for turning. I see him as constantly searching in the Temple Archives. He and Jocasta likely shared a love of learning. I can see Palpy tempting him as much by a chance to gain knowledge as by actual power. Seeking out alternative philosophies such as the Sith out of curiousity might make him want to try and make the Jedi into what he thought they should be - with greater power and less corruption. One of the things that's interesting about Dooku is that in many ways he's right. The Jedi are too much under the control of the senate and bound by some rules that don't always make sense. A way to fix the problem would be tempting.

Hrm, Dooku did seem to have a little army of powerful dark jedi in the EU. I wonder if he wanted to have his own order of dark Jedi once the real order was gone? He might have liked to have a council with Asajj, Obi-Wan, Quinlan, Sora Bulq, etc. I mean, assuming he could turn/keep turned all of them and not have them kill each other.

 

True enough, LLL, true enough.

Lovely-in-Orange, great post!
I think I like this theory the most. This seems to fit with what I think of Dooku. He seems like a knowledge seeker. Nice job fitting Jocosta in there too.

It would make sense, she runs the archives probably out of wanting knowledge, and Dooku was also that way. Perhaps in their old age, they would spend long hours in there. (Seeking knowledge )

He was curious. I like that.
He wanted to learn more. And he wanted to help the Jedi. Palpatine probably told him of Darth Plagueis or something and all his "Great power" that Dooku probably wanted to learn because he had never really been taught of such a "Sith legend" before. A Sith Lord could expand his studies much more than a Holocron.

His own Jedi Order of Dark Jedi?
I like this too.
Dooku teaching others of what he himself has learned. Without rules to govern what they can or can't study.
Great post.

 

There's something somewhere I've read about him wanting to start a New Order (it'd be Sithly...but more organized than the old Jedi Order).

LOL! I liked the added Jo mentioning there too!

Yep yep I could see Obi on the Council too! Along with the others...prob not Asajj though...like Dooku mentioned in Dark Rendezvous she was only after one thing - death of all Jedi. What would she do after they were all killed? She'd have no life afterward...and she was too reckless to be trusted in that manner of decision making I'd think.

His thrist for more power and his want to right the wrongs got twisted about

As for Palpy being a great ruler to Dooku's eyes... maybe at first, but I think it became evident that the man was after the distruction of the Republic. Bring it down and rebuild it...but not as the old Republic and what it stood for (which is what I believe Dooku wanted really) but as Palpy's new Empire. But that's juz me humble opinion there

He got drawn in to the spider's web and got caught. Once ensnared...it was too late. Ohhhh the horrors he must have suffered at Palps' hands though. In DR he closes his eyes and shudders at a memory or two when talking to Asajj about paying for each lesson the Master teaches.

 

Oh, no doubt Palpy can deliver some evil lessons.
Twisted things.....
Poor Dooku.
Both he and Saruman wanted knowledge. And both just went mad with it and didn't understand what kind of fire they were playing with.
That's probably why CL agreed to do Dooku. Apart from Peter Cushing once being involved with the project.

"I was told Peter Cushing would be here."

 

Hello Paddy Sis and everyone I'm in Louisiana with no phone or internet but I found a coffee shop a ways away. I'll get caught up soon.

Just got the DVD and looking forward to seeing our Count dueling once again, even if it is short lived.

 

HEY, there you are!
I've been missing you.
How's it going?
I hope you get caught up with things eventually.
There's a whole bunch of Fan-fics (from me ) for you to read when you can.
And I hope you're doing well.

 

His own Jedi Order of Dark Jedi?

Hmm. Regarding this idea of a New Order of Dark Jedi.

Why did they have to be dark? For that matter, why did they have to be light? Perhaps it was FREEDOM Dooku was actually after, freedom from all rigid rules and dogma, freedom to recreate things so they worked better from anyone. "To truly understand the Great Mystery, one must study all its aspects ... " That would be more consistent with this idea of curiousity and understanding that is being discussed, and with having Obi along on such a council.

Perhaps Dooku plunged himself into it just to LEARN IT ALL, in order to be able to choose what of it he wished to keep and use?? And have total choice in HOW? -- instead of having Jedi rules and/or Sith rules there to say, "No, WE don't do it this way."

Just a thought.

 

Why did they have to be dark? For that matter, why did they have to be light? Perhaps it was FREEDOM Dooku was actually after, freedom from all rigid rules and dogma, freedom to recreate things so they worked better from anyone. "To truly understand the Great Mystery, one must study all its aspects ... " That would be more consistent with this idea of curiousity and understanding that is being discussed, and with having Obi along on such a council.

Perhaps Dooku plunged himself into it just to LEARN IT ALL, in order to be able to choose what of it he wished to keep and use?? And have total choice in HOW? -- instead of having Jedi rules and/or Sith rules there to say, "No, WE don't do it this way."


Well, the fact that he slaughtered millions, tried to engineer a coup by plunging the galaxy in civil war, and got a madman gleam in his eye while twirling his laser sword around (though who doesn't?) would probably mean he could be considered one dark dude. Intentions versus consequences, I guess.

But I see where you're coming from. There are certainly multiple and seemingly valid, rational perspectives of the Force. The Sith are just all evil-cackly about it

 

Why did they have to be dark?

Good point.
I don't think they had to be. But it wouldn't matter.
In my latest fic "A Grievous Crime" (which is written in my sometimes confusing for others script format )
Count Dooku's plan is something to that effect. Except that it seems a bit idealistic.

He would have viewed himself as the ultimate master. He would have known both sides of the Force. Perhaps he would have left Palpy's group as well, and started over fresh. This idea sure does fit with most of his character.


But like Exeter said, he did it with a madman gleam in his eye. You can try to learn both, but the Dark Side is so seductive and twisted, that you will eventually lose your noble intentions.

 

I believe he wanted to know 'both' sides of the Force to be able to utilize it to the fullest in order to achieve his goals.

I agree about the:

Welcome back Padawan Sis! Glad to know you weren't caught up in that hurrican! Was a wondering there!

 

Have to pop my head in here and tease Kynstar about her "love affair" with our favorite count...

Are you still slepping with Mini-Count (you know, his "action" figure on you pillow??

Just kidding...

Do they impose Mr Lee's picture over the stunt double during the fight scenes? Or is it just a creative camera angle type thing??

 

Hey now! You aren't supposed to tell anybody that!



They digitally superimposed...(what is that word? ) Mr. Lee's head onto his body. Computers...the wonders of the world!

 

LOL, hyperspace_police

Yeah, Mr. Lee's face is on the doubles. Sometimes he's even digital!

As a result, we have really cool flips, jumps, kicks, and FAST blade crossing.

 

I thought I wasn't supposed to talk about when he's under the covers...

hee hee hee hee

Just kidding.

How much stuff is out there about Dooku in the Expanded Universe? I'm not that familiar with it.
So, any info is more info than I know right now.

Anybody got any pictures that get up close on the clasp for his cape?
I'm trying to sculpt one out of "Sculpy" for Kynstar's Dooku costume.
(It's her one chance to get inside the count's clothes)

So any help will be greatly appreciated by us both...

 

"(It's her one chance to get inside the count's clothes)"

 

I did a massive search for Dooku clasp close ups but none so far were great.
I can post the ones I found if you like, but none are as detailed as I think would be helpful.

 

Oh my goodness hyperspace_police!

But on a side note!

EU Dooku...unfortunately it is thru EU where we find most of the info on the beloved Count. Sad...but true. Comics and books. There have been several books already mentioned and of course some of the Republic comics have had him in them. There is also a Tales from the Jedi (or something like that...) that has him staring in it. Which of course I have! Also have the Yoda one. That one was sad

Hey Palpy you can post a few of those close ups if ya like. If anything it'll be more pics of the man! A couple should be ok. I think she mentioned about PMing you later her e-mail address so you can send her the other links. Thanks so much!