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A/V The EPISODE IX - Rise of Skywalker - Thread - Untagged Spoilers Allowed!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ghost, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. darthzac14

    darthzac14 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2012
    I believe Snoke could be a clone of the original Darth Plagueis. Maybe Palpatine did kill him and had clones of him to do his dirty work.
     
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  2. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    What? You think the reason Palpatine is scary is because he hasn't had sex since the reboot? Is that what you're saying?
     
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  3. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Can we assume Palpatine is the reason why Luke couldn't get a Jedi Order up and running in 30 years? The Emperor was sabotaging every effort behind the scenes? The last thing Palpatine would want is a full fledged New Jedi Order fighting against his hidden Empire.

    Even in Legends, Luke only set up his Jedi Academy proper literally immediately after Palpatine died his final death in Empire's End.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  4. TheAvengerButton

    TheAvengerButton Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Sorry, I assumed that "get ****ed" was a pretty common colloquialism. What I meant was that he needs to die already because I can't handle how evil he is.

    Unless I'm totally reading you wrong and you're just having a laugh.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
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  5. PimpBacca

    PimpBacca Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 2015
    A short but pretty cool interview with Ian mcdiatmid.



    check the channel out he’s got a few of them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  6. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    I thought that’s what you meant, but then everyone started talking about Palpatine having sex.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I agree that's rather odd for a movie discussion. However, as the latest spoilers say that Palpatine is a grandfather, his dating life is unfortunately now relevant to the movie.

    If it's bad now, wait till after the movie is out.

    Interviewer: Mr. McDiarmid, who's Rey's grandmother?
    Ian: [face_sigh]
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2019
  8. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    The part of me that would like to enjoy this film is still desperately, desperately hoping that's misinformation. Like "Obi-Wan Kenobi killed your father!".

    Not holding my breath though.
     
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  9. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Anyway now that we’re still talking about Palpatine having sex, that was totally a thing in Legends. Triclops’s mother is likely Sly Moore. Roganda Ismaren is described as one of the Emperor’s concubines.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
  11. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Even in canon Palpatine had many dates... Talzin, that lady from the Underworld scripts Lucas wrote that never happened.

    Regardless, I miss the days the Emperor was just a puppet for the evil advisors manipulating him... before he became a Forceuser...
     
  12. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    You miss a few years in the late seventies?
     
  13. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Given how incompetent Tarkin, Motti, and the rest are in ANH (the ones supposed to be controlling the puppet Emperor), Lucas probably watched it afterwards, realized an actual galactic Empire would never believably have lasted very long with those guys in charge, and promptly made the Emperor a more competent character.

    Also, the ANH novelization outright has Obi-Wan mention "later corrupt Emperors". As of the novelization, Senator Palpatine who declared himself Emperor was not the same Emperor as of ANH. This changed in the ROTJ novelization when the Emperor is addressed as Palpatine and there's a scene where he sits around thinking about the good old days of being a Senator.

    While we're waiting for 9, let's play a game of who the "later corrupt Emperors" of the ANH novelization were! Legends has a guide:

    Sheev Palpatine (Senator who declares himself Emperor)
    Triclops (Sheev's son, corrupt Emperor who inherited his position)
    Ken Palpatine (Sheev's grandson, corrupt Emperor who inherited his position)

    Going by what we know, I propose the current ruling Emperor in the ANH novelization is either Triclops or Ken (depending on if Sheev himself is counted in Kenobi's "corrupt Emperor's" novelization line).
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  14. Todd the Jedi

    Todd the Jedi Mod and Spokesman of SWTV star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Oct 16, 2008
  15. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
     
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  16. MercenaryAce

    MercenaryAce Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2005
    That is how I felt about the TLJ spoilers...and this is the same leaker I believe.

     
  17. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    I find myself actually ok with the idea about Palpatine being Rey's grandfather, and I've been one of Disney's fiercest critics around here. One flaw of the OT was how Vader suddenly turned from an evil villain who Luke won't bother to redeem to someone he was going to throw away everything for to try to redeem, solely because of biological relation. Palpatine being Rey's grandfather fixes that flaw by showing biological relation isn't everything.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  18. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    A few more days before this can be put to rest...



     
  19. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    yub the wild Glam years... Coruscant and Palpatine's Velvet Goldmine era ;)

    Are you suggesting Palpatine stepped down? Or used puppet rulers staying himself behind the scenes early on?

    If IX plays on this to explain his ROTJ survival, bravo!!! Great comeback of old lore!

    Then other Legends mentions of royal family may refer to these other Emperors loves and offspring, not Palpatines! Like... Pallopides being related to them?

    In the end, Palpatine was a puppet all along... and Cronal/Blackhole the puppeteer? or in canon, Plagueis!
     
  20. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    It wasn't "solely biological relation".

    Luke sensing the good in his father wasn't wishful thinking on his part. He was right. It was there. The familial connection facilitated a deeper understanding of who Vader was at his core, no doubt, but it wasn't the true reason for Luke's about face.

    There's no flaw that needs to be fixed.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
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  21. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    Except it was wishful thinking. Just because he happened to be right is like saying your wish you will win the lottery tomorrow isn't wishful thinking if you somehow do manage to win it the next day. In both cases, there was no evidence given to the wishmaker beforehand that the wish was remotely realistic. Vader chopped off Luke's hand and made it clear in ESB his only concern in keeping Luke alive was to rule the galaxy. Vader made no effort to save Luke near death while he was holding onto Bespin's weathervane (this is clarified in the comic adaptation where Vader hears Luke's pleas to Ben's ghost and basically laughs at them. In the movie, he could presumably have calculated where Luke fell to but didn't bother). Earlier in the same movie, Vader had no problem with an orbital bombardment of Hoth that could have killed Luke.

    This is further clarified in ROTJ where Luke foolishly thinks Vader won't turn him over to the Emperor and Vader did just that.

    I'm not saying Luke should have killed Vader eagerly like Ben's ghost was urging, but when you're trying to redeem an evildoer, it should be done from a place of safety. Not risking your life (and a major Alliance operation) to do so. Han had proper concerns about Luke running off on Endor as the commander of the mission, yet the movie promptly de-legitimized his concerns by making him act like a jerk towards Leia (a common dramatic trick where by making the character who is expressing proper concerns a jerk, the entire matter of his proper concerns can be dismissed by those who want to dismiss them).

    The only good thing 8 did was highlight the absurdity of it all when Rey does the same wishful thinking for Kylo, and Luke suddenly can't point out how it's any more absurd than his own wishful thinking for Vader was (because objectively they're on the same level of absurdity).

    Also, this wasn't in any of the spoilers before: https://comicbook.com/starwars/2019...a-appearance-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker/ .

    Spoilers said Anakin doesn't appear. However, they also said nothing about Ahsoka. I'm hoping if Ahsoka appears, Anakin does as well and that they just hid it very well up till now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  22. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Your analogy would only be relevant if the one in question literally had insight into the future the same way a Force user has insight into emotions. In which case it would be reinforcing my point.

    "I feel the good in you. The conflict"

    Sure, Luke's a bit naive at the start -- you're right to say he's far too confident that Vader won't turn him over to the Emperor (esp. when selling the idea to Leia) -- so I'll grant you that there's some wishful thinking in play in regards to his chances of success, but he quickly comes to understand there is a battle going on within Vader and that it's possible he might lose that battle. Still, the fact the evil (or defeatist) in Vader wins the battle up until the point he finally turns against the Emperor does not undermine Luke's firm grasp that there is good in there, and it's possible for that part of Vader to win.

    He is vindicated entirely.

    Are his decisions dangerous? Yes, absolutely! But that's not the point of contention, here. Your fixation on my choice of words does not change that Luke is not, as you claimed, motivated solely by biological relation. If Luke had felt nothing but pure evil in Vader then he would have had no qualms about recommitting to the Dark Lord's defeat and destruction after processing the paternal relevation.

    I reiterate: there is no flaw that needs fixing in this regard.

    edit: spelling (defeatest? oops)
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
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  23. sidv88

    sidv88 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2005
    There was literally no indication Luke "felt" good in Vader before the revelation of the biological connection. None. He had the same Force abilities the entire time. He was not having lengthy conversations on Dagobah with Yoda in ESB saying how he felt there was good in Vader on the Death Star and, maybe there's some way to redeem Vader?

    Luke only started feeling that Vader had good in him after the biological revelation. Anyone would view that with suspicion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  24. Ulicus

    Ulicus Lapsed Moderator star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2005
    As I said in my first post regarding this that "The familial connection facilitated a deeper understanding of who Vader was at his core, no doubt".

    I'm not going to talk in circles. I've said my piece, and others will come to their own conclusions as to which of us has a better understanding.
     
  25. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Heavy spoilers for latest leaks, but mostly a general post with conjecture connecting bits and pieces from them to the past before the ST with Luke, Snoke, Ben and the Jedi Academy:

    Exogol, the place we meet Palpatine in the movie is intriguing in design as per tv spots, and seems to have many secrets about it that need to be explored in or after the movie.

    What we know so far:

    -Palpatine resides there and has followers there with him
    -cloning technology is present
    -secret shipyards or an entire buried fleet is hidden there below the ice crust
    -megalomanic brutalism architecture is present and speaks of ancient times, statues as giant and mysterious as on Jedha or Korriban
    -the planet is hidden behind a dangerous space anomaly/hyperlane as only access via a Wayfinder device
    -above Palpatines lair floates a giant cube as per leaks, tv spots showed no cube but an upside down pyramid that may or may not relate to a Tho Yor / Mortis Monolith.

    Furthermore, if tied to this from previous canon we know:
    -Palpatine sensed something in the Unknown Regions like an origin of the Dark Side
    -Vader did not sense it
    -Palpatine searched for it via observatories and other help

    As per leaks, Luke Skywalker knew about Exogols existance and also searched for it once alongside Lor San Tekka (with or without little Ben Solo?) like he searched for Ach-To with Lor San in the past. So the site is of similiar importance and age, like an Anti-Ach-To?

    New canon so far despite all ancient sites in the known galaxy has placed the true origin of things even further past into the Unknown Regions. At some point in history, a conflict ripped the galaxy apart and separated the Unknown Regions, cutting the galaxy off from its true past. Starting over, the galaxy was freed from its baggage and yet a shadow lasted upon it that would one day return to threaten it until resolve reunifying both parts of the galaxy into one, as the barrier became obsolete and permeable.

    Architecture-wise Exogol is closer to Jedha than Ach-To. What if once the Jedi spread out from Ach-To into the galaxy, the first great shism, that origin of the dark side and its users, split the galaxy in two. The Jedi on Jedha remaiend firm in the light as the Darksiders on Exogol (which sounds etymologically close to Exile, Exogorth, Alien etc.) embraced the darkness.

    (Sidenote: Exogol sounds suspiciously close to NJOs Exgal, as in extragalactic... one more tie to the observatories both Legends and Canon has)

    Now, without going too far into conjecture how Thrawn and the Chiss tie into the UR projects, how Ezra might and so on, that will come in the future once more hints arrived, it is interesting to look at Palpatine and Ben.

    TLJs scene where Luke is about to kill Ben in his sleep was interpreted as him contemplating to kill an innocent boy to thwart off a dark future. Many critizised the movie for that. But now it looks more like something else entirely. With Palpatine being every voice in the boys head as per his own words, what if Luke did see a vision of Palpatine and when he pulled his saber and ignited it was still trapped in the vision not realising he threatened Ben at all! A typical Palpatine ploy... either he scares Ben into his waiting Snokey arms, or he kills him and falls himself. A trap for Luke via a vision placed within Ben waiting for Luke to find it!

    Likewise, revealing himself to Luke this way would ruin hope and focus within Luke and many would not believe him if he told them he saw Palpatine alive and returning. Paranoia, Jedi discredited? Like nobody believed the Resistance about the First Order. These tiny leaks drew the good people out of the government they served and weakened the Republic thus as much as they captured the people with a vendetta-esque hunt and lookout mission for their enemy that would not come for decades! Wearing them down.

    While Exogol is not in hard to reach Deep Core as Byss was in Dark Empire, what might that red space anomaly be and why/how is Exogol hidden beyond it? I first thought it is the Unknown Regions barrier's most dangerous section finally seen on screen, but Exogol this close to known space? Not so sure anymore. Is it a part of a cluster like Hapes or the Akadese Maelstrom of Kesse land the Maw? We did not see it surrounded by it, or did we? Maybe it is. Still, this dangerous route to a secret place invokes many Legends places, be it the Deep Core Byss, Maw Cluster Intallation near Kessel, the Kathol Rift leading to Otherspace or even the Unknown Regions home of the Sorcerers of Rhand!