A/V The EPISODE IX - Rise of Skywalker - Thread - Untagged Spoilers Allowed!

So Snoke just said "I bridged your minds" I guess was just him/Palpatine taking credit for something that was already there. Importantly they're still connected at the end of the TLJ, although Rey closing the Falcon door implies that she severed the connection. although they don't have a Force chat until Rey is on Ach-To so mayyybeee Snoke/Palpatine bumped their connection up a notch to make his statement not entirely fake. TROS seems to imply that they haven't had a Force chat for the whole year after he dials her up, but I could see some lit media saying that Rey and Kylo were still having chats the whole time and it wouldn't really bump up against TROS.

I will say the dyad does retroactively make Rey learning Force mind reading from Kylo in TFA work a bit better than just she figured it out after he tried to invade her mind.

 

Since Palpatine didn't know they were a dyad until they were both there together on Exegol, Snoke almost certainly didn't either. The logical conclusion to me is that Snoke in his overconfidence thought he *had* bridged their minds. (And for all we know, he might have been right! We don't necessarily know what dyads are "normally" capable of. Long-distance communication, complete with matter transport, may not ordinarily be in the dyad toolbox.)

 

I hope to get a Snoke story or something soon because I still think Snoke is a fascinating character. He's like a manufactured Count Dooku and I wanna know what his own internal thoughts were like.

Someone once said he could be a experiment of Palpatine that tried to fly to close to the sun and then well...SLICE!

 

Maybe Snoke's manipulation accelerated the development of the dyad.

 

I also thought of this once. Like: he indeed bridged their minds what actually made the (secret) dyad between Kylo and Rey only “grow faster“. Like bringing two soulmates together actively or something.

 

Lets consider for a moment, what if Snoke actually had the intent to go against Palpatine, at least whenever he was not remotecontrolled, which was not a permanent state after all. Did he train Kylo to one day kill Palpatine and free himself from his control? We know Palpatine had his plans and intentions but I believe not always was Palpatine behind Snokes actions in the ST.

We all know Kylo and Rey's minds bridged in the interrogation scene when he went into her mind and she returned the favor. Long before Snoke saw her. So I doubt Snoke could have bridged there minds then and there or initiated the Dyad or forming of it. That happened naturally.

 

Keep in mind that according to most of the Sourcebooks that detail Snoke they do say he has Free Will.

They also say that even he is not aware of his full intentions (I.E being a test for Kylo Ren) so he can honestly think that's he's being set up to be master of the universe or something.

I honestly don't think there is any direct remote controlling going on.

 

I kinda like PuppetSnoke, if only because the Snoke one-shot and the Kylo Ren comic really leaned into PuppetSnoke. Although I'm not exactly going to go down swinging on that point but from what I've read in the Marvel comics it leans more that way. (and I kinda dig the notion that if Palpatine is puppeting Snoke he is literally trying the Throne Room bit yet again on the Supremacy in another generation, it worked with that Anakin kid and Luke wimped out but for sure it'll work with this Kylo Ren kid).

Also the Rise of Kylo Ren comic seemed to imply that they were connected even before Starkiller Base, Rey feels cold on Jakku when Ben goes full Dark Side. I think some of the dialogue in the ST implies that too they've always had a subliminal unconscious connection.

 

Something I found interesting with regards to Snoke is the idea that in the Book Skywalker a Family at War, they almost made Snoke to be like this weird imaginary friend Kylo had when he was younger.

So I do wonder if Palpatine made the identity of Snoke to hide his own presence and then once something more "Physical" was needed he unleashed the creature Snoke into the world with more or less free will but added false memories and thoughts in his own head.

 

Rise of Kylo Ren has kid Ben talking to Snoke via mental telepathy chats. Potentially that was Palpatine and eventually he needed to grow his own "Snoke" to meet Kylo physically. Maybe the first time that happened was after the destruction of Luke's temple.

 

Possibly hard to say I always got the impression Rise of Kylo Ren they have met at least once

Obviously Palpatine needed a Snoke to rule the First Order.

 

So, it's obvious that a certain former Supreme Leader was just a Snokescreen.

 

I still can't believe they went for the "Lord Shadowspawn" = "Lord Shadow's Pawn" trickery and pulled it off on the big screen with a Snokescreen... but I love it. Still imagine Snoke not wearing golden bathrobes and slippers but instead Cronals Shadowspawn cloak with a starfield/invisibility cloack style look to it? I kinda need younger handsome Snoke wearing that in some source please!!!

It's all Snoke and Mirrors... Snoke basically when not ruling the FO just says what Kylo wants to hear, even if it is something he does not like, he wants it, believes he needs it to fuel him along. He always agrees with Kylo, even and especially Kylos selfdoubts. In TLJ when he had enough of it finally and killed Snoke, he gave up his doubts and did start to believe in himself or Rey or something at least no longer needing this imaginary friends confirmation of every step he takes up or down the road. Even when scolding Kylo he starts by reciting his destiny and delusions of grandeur as Vader's heir and Chosen One and torn between both sides of the Force before confirming Kylos doubts and fears. Kylo seeks guidance and only gets confirmation of both his ups and downs. Like a parent who you want true admiration from and no matter what you do you always get the same result, never an honest one. To the point of you doing terrible things to at least get a honest punishment if no honest admiration is possible.

Snoke kinda is like the Mirror in the fairytale... Kylo's subconscious asks always "who is the most powerful, hot, ripped, Chosen One on the Jedi Academy site?" and Snoke replies "You are, Kylo my dear but 7 parsecs away is this tough nobody girl that..." Boom anger and vendetta to find the girl!

 

Here's a video essay on Palpatine's return in TROS using the canon and quite intresting. For anyone not in know it all. I think futher canon will give more into Palpatine's return.

 

It is kinda fascinating how much of the Canon that was developed during this time seemed to play into the idea that Palpatine was planning a comeback.

 

Yeah, you can make it look like it was all part of the plan if the pieces fit together that well. Might be you never had one but it looks like A follows B follows C. Preferably so well that you don't see the joins. TRoS doesn't get to that level but it does a pretty good job given what it was lumbered with.

 

I mean honestly i sometime question how badly the lack of planning is gonna hurt the ST down the line especially with people coming into the fandom and who just watch the movies back to back to back with no expectations or time to build up their Star Wars theories.

Now one could objectively break down what works, what doesn't due to lack of planning and yada yada but honestly i think audiences overall are gonna be more forgiving and not notice the tug of war between JJ and Rian and just except the story as is.

Star Wars has been lucky in a sense of being able to keep that "Illusion of Cohesiveness" when newcomers enter the fray so I'll be curious to see if the ST can hold up in that regard...which i think it will.

Not saying we should't try to be a bit more organized down the road but i don't think lack of planning is gonna hurt the ST's legacy prospects.

 

And we were talking about that? No, we weren't.

I was more interested in and pretty much agreeing with you on that the pieces can be fitted together reasonably well.

 

No but that's what i was just thinking about.

But yes, they surprisingly do...which is kinda shocking how it would have played out if DoTF had been made considering how Palpatine was not involved really...at all.

 

I remember Aftermath 1 having an Imperial Sith cultist convinced that Palpatine was out there somewhere.

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Then in Aftermath 3 Yupe Tashu said Sidious was "Out their in the dark"

 

I tried to look at a potential post -IX scenario. Imagine a few Sith Eternal/First/Final Order cultists remaining and attempting to bring back their god another time. But not Palpatine who failed, weak as they witnessed.

What if they intended to bring back Kylo Ren?

Imagine for a second, they know Palpatine failed and is a goner, they know Palpatine wanted Kylo and Rey for a purpose. They saw, if around long enough before escaping, that Rey returned from certain death like a messiah. They saw Kylo do it, to return her to life from certain death, finish what Vader started and the Emperor craved but never truly achieved. What Plagueis researched.

Even if Ben and Rey had been their enemy in the end, they seem to be the obejct of their fascination and admiration. Their gods, their goals in the flesh. Would they intend to bring back the Dyad? To bring back Kylo as new idol? To turn or clone Rey for the same reason?

Obsessive folks can get creative and persist... (fans should know that lol)

So, What if Kylo/Ben is resurrected through the same unnatural means that brought back Palpatine before? Cloning? Rituals? What if they clone Rey or try to turn her dark after all, obsessed with her like Cronal was with Luke in Shadows of Mindor?

Also, Jedi could ghost so far and be very physical and active as ghosts like Yoda in TLJ with Lightning and Luke in TROS. Going one step further than this would be an actual light side return from certain death as a Force Ghost gets so involved and active he returns to the flesh and looses the etheral blue glow.


So, cue Episode X-XII

Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is a Force Ghost at first that will return to the flesh. In part thx to Cultists nececcitating him to, assisting in it, which calls into question who is back, Kylo or Ben, or a mix of both? (Kinda like the post ROTJ scenarios with Vader / Anakin returning, and conflicted/split scenarios as per TFA Artbook!)

Rey of course is heavily affected by it, more so with the Dyad active and alive again. Will she believe he is truly back? Call it a fake by the Cultists and try to destroy them and their fake-god? Will she come around to see it is truly him, or will she proof it is not him? Might she fall in the process of this vendetta tearing her apart like previously Kylo had been?

And as these two dance around each other once more for three movies, can Finn hold the young small Jedi Order emergent together as she is off on her own? What might Grand Admiral Dameron of the Galactic Alliance think of this? And how many are still willing to flock to the Cultists side to form a faction for another war emergent? I mean, if truly spiritual, how many cults will witness in public the return from certain death and a "god" walking amongst mortals? That may shake up the galactic scene of believers more than that of the technocratic nonbelievers. But still plenty may form new cults and join them as if a new messiah draws in followers that threaten the new stability of the galaxy.

And, to make it even more complicated, and add another spiritual concept to the gffa, why are some children, especially Forcesensitive ones, have strange memories of past lifes they never lived. Is rebirth at hand of being proven? Is this another ploy by some schemer or entity freed when the boundaries between life and death were opened to let one man return to life? One could have an Abelothesque nemesis added or not, children affected, or even have the children truly be old characters reborn as Kylo turns out to be fake or an entity. Many options and mirrors to Legends, Myth or abandoned movie plans exist.

Thoughts?

 

I love this!

 

Nice little vid of why Anakin might not have told Luke about Exegol or did he?