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A/V The EPISODE IX - Rise of Skywalker - Thread - Untagged Spoilers Allowed!

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Ghost, Mar 1, 2018.

  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Do find this kind of funny as we got, via TROS, a film version of Dark Empire.
     
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  2. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Curious as to why you feel we're being "lied to" about canon - especially now, with examples of genuine connectivity between live action and literature being more frequent. Have you noted frequent instances of live action overwriting novels / comic books in the canon era?
     
  3. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    I’m talking 1 to 1 adaptions not HEAVILY INFLUENCED BY like TROS.
     
  4. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2020
    "One-to-one adaptation" seems like an oxymoron.
     
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  5. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    well I don’t consider TROS a dark empire adaptation even if it takes ideas from it.

    a adaption would be same story, Byss the eclipse, Nema etc etc
     
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  6. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Star Wars books were big because people love the universe and characters and wanted to see more of them.

    I think on a very basic level a lot of people understood that the books weren’t the same medium as the films and that it was always a scenario of “If you want you can pretend this is what happened next” rather than “this IS what happened next.”

    George very openly saying as much only solidified it imo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2022
  7. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    I’m honestly not convinced that Star Wars books would have been big if the EU didn’t eventually do the whole “interconnected media” thing.

    they’d have a audience sure lilt Star Trek but I don’t if they be the thing they are now


    I mean deep down I know in my heart that if there was a irreconcilable aspect of “paper canon” and “screen canon” screen canon is going to win out
     
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  8. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    I mean, you don’t really have any basis for that. But on the flip side, there is direct evidence that the early EU novels were unambiguously successful financially. You don’t get that if a lot of people aren’t reading.
     
  9. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    yeah but a lot of people considered those books continuations of the movies.

    The fan narrative because the Thrawn Trilogy was 7-9 and it’s a stigma that stuck around for decades.
     
  10. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    I think it was more that people wanted those books to be the official sequels, rather than taking it at face value that they were.
     
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  11. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    but I don’t think Lucasfilm as a company did any favors to discourage that talk regardless of what Lucas said
     
  12. SyndicThrass

    SyndicThrass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 25, 2016
    ….should they have?

    I don’t see any wrongdoing on Lucasfilm’s part for letting fans of the EU enjoy the EU.
     
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  13. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    But is there evidence? Live action overwrote literature in the old days because of George's "their universe and my universe" paradigm, but George is gone now and Black Krrsantan roams the streets of Mos Espa. I see little evidence we were lied to about connectivity. Fans frequently fear that hypothetical scenario in which some maverick filmmaker rides up to Disney with a dump truck full of money and an idea for a Star Wars film that cannot be refused, even though it will completely annihilate this or that novel from canon - but is that a realistic fear? I don't think it is, for multiple reasons.
     
  14. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    I mean I would love it if that scenario happened personally. For all I know it could be my next favorite thing

    granted then I think the easiest option then is just set it in a timelime without a lot of real estate
     
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  15. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    I mean...TROS wasn't far off. There are clearly creators without interest in connecting up to the EU (or, hell, even the prequels, really) who aren't being prevented from doing their own thing.
     
  16. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    If worst really came to worst, we saw with Visions that Lucasfilm will just go ahead and label a project as non-canon if there's just no way to reconcile it with existing canon. They won't use that specific term, of course, but we know they keep the option in their toolbox. No reason they couldn't do that with a film or live action series if it ever really came down to it, although given Story Group's entire purpose is to prevent situations like that I don't think it ever will.
     
  17. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    See I wish they did label it as canon just so every other question on that series wouldn’t be “is it canon”.

    speaking of this topic reminds me of this thread




     
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  18. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    TROS didn't overwrite anything so far as I can tell. Regarding creators who are being allowed to "do their own thing" without regard to existing canon, who specifically are you thinking about?

    The reality is that in all cases, on all projects, the finished project is the result of a complex relationship and collaboration between creators, Story Group, and Lucasfilm (aka Kathleen Kennedy). The idea that certain creatives are simply given carte blanche to do whatever they want without regard for Story Group or existing canon doesn't line up with what we can glean from the actual creative output.
     
  19. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    JJ Abrams.

    In his mind Poe started off a smuggler regardless of Greg Ruka's book said

    And Finn was a janitor in the First Order instead of "A Up and Comer who was consider someone for Phasma to keep a eye on"
     
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  20. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Yep. JJ. Rian, too. Favreau. And maybe Trevorrow, had his Grey Jedi stuff got through.

    Pablo's been clarifying on Twitter how the Story Group only advises. They're there to serve whatever story the chosen writer/director comes up with. There's push back at times, like Bad Robot wanting to blow up Coruscant and Lucasfilm saying no, but even in that case it ended up as a comprise of inventing a Coruscant-like planet to blow up. There's no "continuity curators get the final say" here.
     
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  21. Jid123Sheeve

    Jid123Sheeve Guest

    Which in principle I actually think should be the way. Creatives shouldn't be beholden to rules or lore. Cuz let's face it Star Wars isn't this deep lore heavy kinda universe.

    As that tweet thread from above entails.

    Star Wars worldbuiding and lore is more of a uh "What are we vibing with today" kinda feel.
     
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  22. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I wouldn't have minded at all if they had toasted Courscant in Force Awakens. Hell, I thought it WAS Courscant when I first watched it until the dialogue clarified otherwise (and even then I thought Courscant could have been in the Honsian System they mentioned). Would have had more punch than the newly invented planet with the rotating New Republic capitols mentioned later in supplementary materiel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2022
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  23. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    The revelation that JJ, Rian, and Favreau (of all people!) routinely tell Story Group to go pound sand in regards to the larger continuity would probably come as quite the shock to Story Group (and Kathleen Kennedy, whose influence on the creative process in all cases should not be underestimated). Not sure how you guys are reaching some of your conclusions about how the collaborative process works at Lucasfilm but it's clearly not just ego-fueled creators running roughshod while KK and Story Group nod their heads in mute, impotent approval. Abrams and Terrio's coming up with a "smuggler" backstory for Poe, that as best as I can tell doesn't actually contradict anything in Rucka's book, is extremely slim evidence to the contrary.
     
  24. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2016
    Think you're misrepresenting us, here. We're not claiming any of that. But these creators are coming in with their own ideas, some of which don't match up exactly to ideas established in the previous or expanded material. We just had another one today, without spoiling anything. It happens.

    I'm more talking about the approach of letting creators create rather than tying them down to absolute continuity.
     
  25. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Fair enough, though the starting point for this divergence was the claim that we are being "lied to" re: continuity between live action and literature - something I don't think is true, and relies on an erroneous impression of how the collaboration between creators, Story Group, and KK actually works. We can see glimpses of the reality in the Art Of books, various interviews, etc. Obviously, creators are allowed to create - all I'm trying to say is that they don't do so in a vacuum.

    Maybe our point of agreement can be on something I've said before in other threads - no other franchise is even trying to do what Star Wars is doing with some degree of success in terms of giving the impression that live action, animation, and literature genuinely co-exist in the same continuity. It's not perfect and never will be, but I prefer to celebrate that accomplishment rather than be too focused on the imperfections.