main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The Essential Atlas and Galactic Cartography: Official Discussion

Discussion in 'Literature' started by CeiranHarmony, Oct 14, 2005.

  1. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    I think until some of the continuity issues with the CW are completely settled (which probably won't be until the TV show is at least close to being finished) they really have to walk lightly around that section. Stuff changes too easily otherwise.
     
  2. Senator_Cilghal

    Senator_Cilghal Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2003
    Almania and Teth are both in appendix as Outer Rim, but should be Outer Rim, as per EGP&Moons and Clone Wars (movie) respectively?

    Shouldn't Gardaji Rift also be in Wild Space? Zonama Sekot wasn't in the Republic.
     
  3. Dan Wallace

    Dan Wallace Author: Essential Atlas, Essential Guides, RPG star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 1998
    In my case, I used "various" and "other" as equivalent terms. In the case of Nar Shaddaa I think Jason did that stat block, but my guess would be the "various" represents all the starhoppers who hang out there and "other" represents the Evocii or vrblthrs.

    Dan
     
  4. Dan Wallace

    Dan Wallace Author: Essential Atlas, Essential Guides, RPG star 3 VIP

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 1998
    Hi everybody -- just a note that the fifth and final installment in the endnotes series is now up. You can check it out at:

    Geekosity
    Starwars.com blogs

    Also, all of the relevant online pieces of the Atlas will be rolled up at the following address on the official site, if you're ever looking for something: starwars.com/atlas

    Dan
     
  5. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 12, 2000
    alright, thanks for the response!
     
  6. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    What he said. :p

    The larger issue is the line in Fury; that the withdrawal of the three Hapan Fleets (of which we already knew the Hapans had lent the GA two battle fleets per Tempest) took away 20% of the GA strength. On top of this, Caedus explicitly states that there were more wrecked vessels than active a week into the Battle of Kuat; but we know from Kashyyyk itself and Invincible that the 5th and 4th Fleets are mostly intact. Thus, the majority of the wrecked vessels must come from the 1st, 6th and 7th Fleets.

    If you take it that the GA military post-Kashyyyk just lost three fleets, and then three fleets seceded (four counting the Wookies), then the GA just lost 20% of its remaining fleets; which is 15 fleets... but then that leads into the point that Nick will probably raise that the Nine Fleets are likely to be the mobile strategic elements, and don't include those vessels in sector fleets and the like; so the Hapans withdrawal removes 20% of the Galactic Alliance Defence Force; but not 20% of the Fleets.

    Though I'm quite of the view that the 1st and 6th make the Core Fleet, the 4th the Colonies, the 9th the Mid Rim, the 2nd, 3rd and 5th the mobile elements, the 7th the Kuati Fleet, the 8th the Coruscanti etc... (per the concepts we're seeing in Legacy).

    GrandAdmiralJello:

    Ah, was that it? Then we can ignore it, then. Surprising how persistent a memory a game can produce, though. :p

    Thus my expectation that Xa Fel would be near Derra IV was merrily shot. [face_laugh]

    How so? What about the maps really suggests a change? The understanding I'd always had was that Thrawn faced a shortage because the Emperor kept recalling assets to Byss, and that swollen fleet was destroyed when the planet went boom. It seemed a nice explaination for why the Rebellion never got its butt kicked by the Empire's strategic reserves and only faced sector assets.

    If the NR had a massive amount of sector fleets, then the comment that Thrawn and the NR are evenly matched translates, very loosely, into the Empire with 250 sectors fielding a certain amount of Star Destroyers and support ships per the 24 SDs to a sector logic, and the NR equally fielding a certain amount of cruisers and Destroyers fielding the same amount of ships to 750-odd sectors. Which translates into thousands of Star Destroyers. Suggesting that the NR fielding (primarily) Four Fleets and is about equally armed to Thrawn makes smaller his assets proportionally - or, as you suggest, swells what the Emperor kept at Byss even further.

    Indeed. We're like philologists--we can't enjoy a work without tearing it apart line by line, first. :p

    Exactly so!

    Nick and Jello:

    I don't think that the Thrawn Campaign map invalidates your idea of numerous New Republic sector fleets. The fact that it shows where the First through Fourth Fleets were stationed in 9 ABY doesn't mean that the sector fleet's do not exist. If anything, it DOES validate the fact that both the sector fleets and the federal fleets existed at the same time.

    Granted, an average sector fleet in the New Republic appears to
     
  7. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    My estimates pegged a NR sector fleet at about eight Star Destroyer equivalent vessels; the NR and Empire are roughly matched, the Empire has three times less territory, an Imperial sector fleet is 24 Destroyers; thus eight. I felt the need to reply to this as well, in the end. [face_blush]
     
  8. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    The sectorial Moffs are all there from the beginning - the 20 special Moffs are the ones that got control of one of the 20 "Sector Army" military territories; essentially oversectors, but as the HNN article showed they didn't have a special title at the time. Tarkin later suggested changes to the concept of oversectors and the title of "Grand Moff" was started then.
     
  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Little aside from the Nagi entry;

    With a Faruun fleet, Maccabree muscle and the aid of a mysterious cyborg... named Lumiya, the Nagai devised a desperate plan: They would wait until both sides of the Galactic Civil War were exhausted, then carve out an empire...

    So... Lumiya had contact with the Nagai before the Battle of Endor...

    ...and didn't tell Sidious or Vader? [face_mischief]
     
  10. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Here's something interesting re Dr. Vindi -- I couldn't figure out why his species was so mysterious, given that I said he was a Faust in Ultimate Battles (something I got from something internal to LFL, but can't remember exactly what). So I checked the book as published, and that paragraph was changed to remove the Faust reference. Interesting! I asked Leland, and he said Vindi's species is unclear at present.

    So Vindi may or may not be a Faust, or a Permese. FWIW, I wrote him up as not a Permese -- the line in Ultimate Battles is meant so suggest that the Permese crime families arrange accidents all the time, so it was suspected that they'd killed Vindi when he disappeared.

    I'll be very interested to find out what's ultimately decided....

     
  11. AdmiralNick22

    AdmiralNick22 Retired Fleet Admiral star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 28, 2003
    A sector fleet with 6-8 major capital ships would equal 4500-6000 major capital ships for the NRDF circa the Thrawn Campaign, IF you simply assume that the 3/4 of the galaxy controlled by the NR was fully stocked and staffed equally.

    I would argue, however, that sector fleets could vary significantly given their size, strategic value, location, etc. Backed by 3/4 of the galaxy, it is easy to imagine the New Republic fielding a few thousand large capital ships at this time. A mix of Mon Cal cruisers (probably at least 50%), captured Star Destroyers, and newer designs like the Republic-class SD. The NR heavily relied on Assault Frigates in this era, so it is also likely that during the push to the Core that countless Dreadnaughts were captured, acquired, purchased, or found in old scrapyards and depots.

    Of course, I didn't mean to derail the cartographic discussion, so we can start another thread for this if you like. :p

    --Adm. Nick
     
  12. Senator_Cilghal

    Senator_Cilghal Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2003
    Jason and Dan: Since y'all are doing a highlight of the Tion Cluster, don't forget it was the location of the asteroid where the Colicoid Creation Nest was relocated (cf. the novel "Millennium Falcon")

    regarding the Faust: aha! Jason thx for clarifying that about the Faust, as I was real curious how I was missing that!

     
  13. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    After digesting the conquests of Xim map, I can hardly wait for the Tion Cluster... :D It's strange that most of the information about it comes from one obscure WEG module and one of the Han Solo books!
    Jason and Dan, the endnotes mentioned you guys had a bunch of never-published WEG material. I know they had mentioned a future Hegemony SB in the Corporate Sector one - did they have any notes on that SB that you'd be using in your article?
     
  14. jasonfry

    jasonfry VIP star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Couple of new things up at the official site, with big thanks to Pablo Hidalgo. Here is the online version of the appendix. It will be updated periodically -- in fact, it already needs an update to add some new placements and to fix some errors. (We'll get to it; we don't want to drive Pablo totally insane right off the bat....)

    And here is a behind-the-scenes piece Dan and I put together that talks a bit more about the book's development.

    More to come!

    (Oh, and don't forget Wednesday's chat on Suvudu....)
     
  15. IcePirate

    IcePirate Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    after postin in the rpg section... i realized this belonged here...


    So Resh 9376 apparantly has roughly a 20 year "orbit" and since I don't own the atlas.... yet, I'm trying to figure out where that orbit most likely is. I remember something about the Gordian Reach being nearby, but not enough to close in much further. Guesstimating, how many systems would the comet glide past with a that short of a run? and which way (up down north south east west)? what was had in mind by those who made mention of it in the atlas?

    I'm a big fan of continuity (i know... good luck to me) and am trying to fig out how to get my players to stumble upon it when they are stuck with a broken hyperdrive, practically adrift in space somewhere around the corporate sector/sith space/the gordian reach neck of the woods.

    They're going to die from starvation, asphyxiation, or pirates... aren't they?

    edit: where is the Niuri sector?
     
  16. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    [face_dancing] Even if you have the Atlas - ESPECIALLY if you have the Atlas - go there right now. SECTORS! (Not for every planet, but there's an additional column for the sectors in the Online Appendix!)
     
  17. IcePirate

    IcePirate Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2005
    i don't... i have to wait for a paycheck that allows me some wiggle room.
     
  18. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Sorry, IcePirate, our posts overlapped and I should've included Jason Fry's post in mine - I was referring to the Online Appendix. Apologies about the confusion (although you might find answers there anyways)
     
  19. Gomez_Addams

    Gomez_Addams Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2009
    ... If anyone needs me, I'll be in the corner, hyperventilating.

    This is just awesome beyond words.
     
  20. Malachi108

    Malachi108 Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Jason and Dan - this Online Companion is better than anything I could have hoped for! The Index now has sectors! This is simply beyond the meaning of the word "awesome" =D=

    I'm seriously thinking of start a new religion decicated to worshipping you two. (What, I'm regularly praying to Chris Trevas since the day I first saw the Essential Guide to the Force)
     
  21. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Where's this DS3 reference? I'm not seeing it...
     
  22. Darth_Culator

    Darth_Culator Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2005
    The online index is fantastic, but please let there be some easy way to distinguish updates. (Translating that to a wiki table was not as simple as I expected and I'd hate to have to re-export the whole thing every time an update is announced.)

    Seriously, though. An online chart of 4,387 systems is a monumental piece of reference material even if we didn't have the Atlas to go with it. Have you seen the kind of chaos your creation caused before we stopped needing to copy everything in by hand? [face_laugh]
     
  23. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Unless "Karthakk" doubles for it, I'm noticing the online appendix doesn't list "Lok".

    I don't have the Atlas yet, but I would guess to look near Endor (for either the comets that preceeded the battle or the "restricted combat zone" of the battle itself) or Coruscant (if they're putting any weight behind the "modified/upgraded habitation sphere" theory inspired by the Illustrated SW Universe).

    Speaking of which- does the DS map touch upon the events of the Death Star Video Boardgame? ie: the DS2's movements to Endor or the battle that took place in the game?
     
  24. blackmyron

    blackmyron Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Oct 29, 2005
    Quest, Lok is indeed in the Karthakk system.
     
  25. TalonCard

    TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    Jan 31, 2001
    I've checked near Endor; I can't find the reference either. :( The map does point out D'rinba as the site of Rebel spy activity [face_dancing] , and also suggests it's the site where the Death Star II's superlaser was constructed. This may be a retcon, suggesting the superlaser was constructed at D'rinba, and the Death Star II was moved there briefly to install it...but this doesn't quite jive with the boardgame backstory as presented in the game rules. It could also be accidentally only referencing Abel's mention of the D'rinba mission in the Dark Forces articles, and not taking into account the game itself. Personally, I now wonder if the initial construction site wasn't Geonosis...for a number of reasons that would take a small essay to explain. :p

    TC