Lit The Essential Atlas and Galactic Cartography: Official Discussion

When does this book come out in Canada? All the chapters/indigo/coles in toronto and all surrounding areas dont even have one copy, and its 3 days after release. Any other stores carry this? Is there a canadian release date i dont know about? Im dying to read this!!

 

That map is brilliant! Only a couple of typos...that is so detailed it surpasses any reasonable expectations I might have had about such a map.

TC

 

*shrugs* I'm just going on the information from the Bounty Hunter sources...Dengar takes at least two weeks to recover from the day Boba staked him out in the desert, then another few days before he finds Boba Fett in the desert, and then the Bounty Hunter Wars books take place over another couple of days (but still end concurrently with Return of the Jedi). Tales From Jabba's Palace also seems to indicate that Leia spent two nights in Jabba's palace. Taking all that into account, I figure about twenty-two days total for Return of the Jedi. That's minimizing the number of days by assuming that one week=five days and "a couple weeks"=ten days. Of course, most of those days are Tatooine days, for whatever that's worth.

TC

 

This has the Stark Hyperspace Wars taking place in 46 BBY, allowing their fallout to spur the commissioning of the Katana fleet (set in 46 by the NEC).The main problem with the retcon is that this would have Obi-Wan appearing as Qui-Gon's apprentice (in The Stark Hyperspace War, now 46 BBY) two years before Qui-Gon picked him as his Padawan (Jedi Apprentice: The Rising Force, 44 BBY). I'm not seeing a way to resolve this without contradicting something (probably the 46 ABY placement and Katana fleet link, as it's a little hard to move Jedi Apprentice and Obi-Wan's background and age around). We could:

1) move the Katana fleet date to 44 BBY and ignore the 46 BBY SHW date here as an error as well as the 46 BBY NEC Katana date;
2) leave the Katana fleet date where it is in 46 BBY, ignore the 46 BBY SHW date as an error, and disassociate the Atlas bit about the Militarists pushing through the Katana fleet from its SHW context to save the literal statement that the Militarists pushed it through, if not its implications that they did so on the back of Ranulph Tarkin's sacrifice;
3) or try to save the 46 BBY SHW date and move everything regarding Obi-Wan around.

My preferred retcon is to toss the NEC date for the Katana fleet and have everything else line up simply, but that's just me.

 

Things I like: extra info on the Warlords; nod to the two Han backstories; larger Remnant after the NJO; explanation of why there's more than 1024 Senators...

Things I'm curious about:

* Any word on total numbers of Senators/Sectors/Moffs?

* Any word on whether Delvardus' Metellos attack is the one that was part of the Ruling Council's reconquest-of-Coruscant campaign?

* Senatorial stuff (mostly to Jello)[/u] - Dane Jir's comments about the Senate are those of a loyalist; if the Senate had been acceptable to Palpatine and Tarkin, they wouldn't have abolished it...

Which leads into the next topic - giving the Moffs direct control was a necessary result of abolishing the Senate....

They're not sovereign, but they're the suffects of the delegates of the sovereign people. And with that in mind, my memory of DESB is that the Moffs didn't ask the advisors to form part of the electoral college; they insisted that if people were electing a new Emperor in the Senate building, they felt they had a right to attend - and they got their way...

And, ever since RotS called Moffs "planetary governors", I've often wondered if the "Diet of Imperial Planetary Governors" which "fosters an illusion of representative democracy" is actually the formal name of the Mofference.

I'll concede that COMPNOR may be independent, but that's about all - and the Advisors' status is as delegates of the executive, not as representatives of the people - they possess the power to utilize Palpatine's authority, de facto if not de jure, but that doesn't mean that they inhereted the role of the Senate, which rests with the Moffs...

* The Emperor's/Imperial Ruling Council/Circle - this is a horrible mess, but it's perhaps easiest to think of it as one body with a number of names, as there's no clear evidence for factions: the names "Cabal" and "Emperor's Ruling Circle" are associated with the group - perhaps a majority - who followed Ars Dangor after Endor, and who also - still led by Dangor - were behind the reconquest of Coruscant afer Bilbringi. I'm curious what canon Jello has to show they backed Thrawn, too, though - beyond the new references to the D'Astas, who're part of the Council through this period, supporting him...

The statement that Isard purged the Council (rather than the Tribunal) is odd, but is a nice echo of the old WEG statements that the Council (rather than the Tribunal) indicted Pestage...

However, after Isard's coup, the Council survived as a functional quorum: Abel and the Crimson Empire backstory establish that the Imperial Ruling Council continued, with Feena D'Asta (or rather her Black Sun clone) deputizing for her father from before Dark Empire, Sarcev Quest letting Pestage go and eventually steering the group, and Carnor Jax appointed as Supreme Commander after Thrawn; heck, Nefti and Sa-Di were apointed to the group by Palpatine, which shows it remained in formal existence right through Dark Empire...

I think it's easiest to try and overlook the varying terminology, though the reason for the post-Endor "Circle" rather than "Council" is unclear... any ideas?

I have a couple of concerns about the idea that Palpatine contacted the Cabal before their reconquest of Coruscant - doesn't that contradict Dark Empire Sourcebook? I suppose it's possible that Quest and Jax knew, since they're established as essentially leading the Council at this point, but their motives weren't straightforwardly pro-Palpatine.

* The Remnant and its relationship with the Alignment...

Isn't it a total retcon to say that the Alignment backed Thrawn? Or has that been misread? I was under the impression that Krennel had ignored him, too...?

I'd be interested to know if Jacen and Dan intended to highlight the continuity in the way that Thrawn and Pellaeon both emphasise the mobile fleet as the embodiment of the Empire, shifting both ships and perceptions (remember, Thrawn reorganized the Navy, entrusting planetry

 

The number of Chiss families changing because of the Killik? I thought that was already established in Dark Nest.

 

I'm not sure I like what I'm hearing about the calendar stuff, though - on internal evidence, there are no more than five months from Iron Fist to CoPL, eight months from CoPL to TG, and at most six months from TG to HttE, perhaps much less. How do these fit?

If you're looking at internal evidence, then you should be fine. That's what all of the dates for the X-wing 1 - 7, COPL, and Thrawn Trilogy (plus, basically Tatooine Ghost and Isard's Revenge) dates were based on. It's all internally consistent with how the stories play out in the novels themselves and their internal references to each other. (Note, however, that HTTE has one duration internally and another given in DFR, and one was chosen over the other to make sure dates were consistent with the other novels around it.)

TG is certainly approx. 8 months after COPL (per Holocron), and that TG placement helped set the date for the birth of the twins, which the rest of the Thrawn dates then circled around in their relative placements. You'll find Zsinj defeated on 43:3:21, approximately 7.5 - 8 months before TG and Thrawn beginning his push right around the start of 9 ABY (including his first mentioned attacks right before HTTE begins, putting HTTE's strike on Obroa-Skai at 44:4:15). Thrawn's defeat at Bilbringi on 44:8:27 (based on internal evidence, days, dates, et al) leaves enough space thereafter for the full duration of Isard's Revenge, again based on internal dating.

As for Iron Fist / Solo Command / COPL, you'll find that Iron Fist's battle at Kuat takes place on 43:1:26, followed shortly thereafter by the events of Solo Command (43:1:29 - 43:2:28 or so), then COPL begins 43:3:3 (approximately, before anyone's brain boils) with the Battle of Dathomir on 43:3:21.

Internally, Iron Fist through the end of COPL only really allows for a couple of months or real time, though IF would begin around 42:12:25 (Christmas! Yaaaaay! heh).

(I have all of this info in DOC form on a huge table with how all the dates were connected, derived, etc., so, no, this wasn't from memory. It's been months since we finished these up.)

Oh, and, by the way, for those curious, by all of this reckoning, the twins were born on the first day of Month 8, so they just had their "birthday" in our universe, so to speak, a couple of weeks ago.

 

Now that you've spilled the beans about this chart, and about that day-by-day chart for the events of the films, you realize you're gonna end up having to give us some details. You realize that, don't you?

 

Is there anything about Kyle Katarn in the Atlas? New artwork/retcons, perhaps?

 

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure how much I can. I figure I can certainly say a little, but I don't want to overstep any boundaries here. I'd like to help out again sometime.

 

Well, here's a simple request, just to get things going: could you provide me with, say, a day-by-day breakdown for The Phantom Menace? We have one for AOTC (which is admittedly old by now) and one for ROTS (courtesy of Insider 84), but nothing for TPM. Calculating the exact calendar date that Palpatine ousted Valorum, for instance, would be sweet.

 

That I am not sure I can do. For TPM, I utilized the start date from the Holocron. All of the other internal TPM dates would be from the Holocron file I was sent if I were to post them. If they haven't been publicly revealed, then those dates are probably ones I can't post.

 

was Balan a Warlord? I thought he was part of the Empire Proper and served the Council (Ars Dangor and Sarcev Quest, etc.)

The Old Republic comics seem to be setting up Senator Am-Ris to be the Chancellor during the game timeframe, though I could be misreading that...he seems to be acting as "fill-in" chancellor in the recent webstrip

as per updates, new editions of the entire atlas would seem redundant and frankly, costly. i couldn't afford to buy a new one every four years; the atlas is worth every penny, and Dan and Jason certainly deserve pay for such excellent work, but it ate up my sw budget for quite a while!. slender Appendices or "yearbooks" would be more affordable, or perhaps online supplements...free OWS content would be preferable, but Hyperspace or WOTC would be possibilities. A published errata article similar to the ones WOTC does for the sourcebooks might work. Updates could also be done thru WOTC in conjunction with Planet Hoppers?

 

Aw, shucks, that's okay. Had to try, right?

But what about those computed dates, Jacen and Jaina's birth date and so on: if you computed them based on material in the books and only got LFL's green light, then are they a bit more permissible to post one day? Don't even try to do any of that tonight; maybe your personal site could eventually have a subpage devoted to that? Not that I have any right to go begging when I have a heap of new dates already. But perhaps you'll consider doing that some time; if you did it to a degree in your recorded account, and some more here on these boards, maybe the whole thing is not too impermissible?

Our slight difference over the Jedi date aside, I think you did a fantastic job.

 

If it helps, I've got TPM covering a total of fifteen days. Palpatine's confirmation as Chancellor could come any time during days nine to fourteen. TPM is a little tricky, though, because I was assuming that the locations on Tatooine, Coruscant, and Naboo were all having day and night at the same time, which is far from a given, plus according to--I think--the Queen Amidala journal, there were a couple of days between the end of the battle and Palpatine's arrival.

TC

 

So that holocron, the famous data base for all things star wars really is more than just a random collection of continuity junk and is actually organized and arranged. I always thought they were making that part up. I guess it's real.

You'd think there would be fewer arguments about continuity.


To repeat my question:

Date Posted: 3:09pm Subject: The Essential Atlas and Galactic Cartography: Official Discussion
So does Executor still launch at 6 months after Yavin or did they change that?

 

There's no evidence of a change to the Executor launch date that I can see.



Note: the revelations about the New Republic's initial surge and the post-Endor condition of the galaxy are awesome. That whole major transition has been vastly underexplored, and it's a real treat to see it handled.

Does the statement that the Mon Calamari fleets "limited themselves for a time to protecting the emerging New Republic government, leaving Mon Calamari space in force only to stop the Stenax rampage through the Gordian Reach the next year" confirm that the NR capital, before the capture of Coruscant, was Mon Calamari? If so, I will join Nick in squeeing like a little girl.

 

I've been thinking about doing a thread on figuring out timelines of each of the movies. The Atlas confirming some stuff and providing other new stuff makes it easier.

 

Hav, I hadn't thought of it like that. However, I REALLY like that implication that Mon Calamari was the defacto capital of the NR up to the time Coruscant fell.

--Adm. Nick

 

It depends on how it is worded I think as Isard's Revenge, which I just reread or I'd have no recollection, mentions how Krennel offered some support to Thrawn but never acknowledged the Grand Admiral as his superior.

Page 29:
"Krennel found it expedient to offer Thrawn some support - munitions, personnel, some basic resources - but he never acknowledged Thrawn as any sort of superior."

 

This Xim's conquest map is great, as well as all the new info on Xim provided. The Tionese names (I presume) for the planets are a nice touch; Korriban is "Pesegam", Ossus is "Idux", Jabiim is "Gwynhes Minor", etc.

 

This book is simply amazing. Go buy it. Go and buy it right now. Seriously, stop what you're doing and go buy this book. I'm not kidding.

 

I loved the Xim map, and the expansion of his story. The fantastic amount of new information in the Atlas is easily its best feature; it's all really interesting stuff.

EDIT: I see the Atlas gives Zsinj the position of Quelii Oversector Grand Moff; I believe that originated as a theory somewhere on here (McEwok was possibly responsible for it, IIRC). Wonderful to see it confirmed, in any case.

 

Man, the original Republic was tiny. "Galactic Republic" was a bit presumptuous.

 

Hey all, answers to a variety of questions. Apologies if I'm a little scattered; it's been great to finally have the book out this week, but also exhausting.


Ruul: Yes, the Core Worlds planet is from Force Commander. Not the same as the moon of Sriluur.

Dornea's placement: I honestly can't recall the thought process for placing it exactly where we did, but am glad it worked out. We did work very hard at figuring out how to make those placements logical, and to use the placements/maps to tell or suggest intriguing stories.

Acherin: Planet in the Red Twins system.

Despayre/Horuz: Time to fess up -- I dislike the name "Despayre" and tried to avoid it. The caption should have said Horuz I or something.

Death Star Map: TC, what are the typos you've found? Please let us know for possible future fixes. (And so I can brood about them until then.)

Kyle Katarn: I don't recall any significant use of him beyond what you'd expect.

Stark Hyperspace War: I need to look over this one when I'm not hopelessly fogged. That was my chapter; sounds like I goofed something up. Ugh.

Empire of the Hand: We mostly stayed away from this one. We felt that it was important for the Atlas to leave some of the galaxy's mysteries intact, and we also tried to be careful about not hemming in future storytelling possibilities and tying other authors' hands. The EotH seemed like a particularly good place to tread lightly, given that Tim Zahn is still writing SW material. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see him explore the area in some future book, and he ought to have a free hand in doing so. (That's not a hint -- just a guess.)