Lit The Essential Atlas and Galactic Cartography: Official Discussion

Hm, I wonder if that's meant to imply where all the -ooine planets come from. "Heptoonie" I assume is supposed to be "Heptooine".

 

If there's an origin given for "Ord", I may just have to move to Canada and marry this book.

Man/book marriage is legal in Canada, right?

 

There is.

It's part of a campaign of the Republic's depots created to protect Human settlers. Ord is considered basically "World for the benefit of humans" amongst aliens.

 

Didn't that come from the Wizards or WEG material?

 

Equanus and Patriim are misspelled on the map as Squanus and Patrum, respectively. The text seems to have the correct spellings, though.

This is a little confusing:

Now this sounds like a continuity fix for the fact that both Roa and DXo'ln have been said to have taken Han on his first Kessel run. But The Hutt Gambit already fixed this: in that novel Han and Chewie go to Smuggler's Run, meet DXo'ln for the first time, and leave immediately with him for Kessel. They seem to go directly to Kessel, which is the traditional potato shaped atmosphere-lite Kessel. Han even comments on the garrison moon. At Kessel, DXo'ln introduces them to Roa, who teaches Han how to fly back from Kessel. So how do the two stories fit together? Does one retcon retcon the first retcon? Anarchy!

By the way, that scene on page 135 with the green Myrialites forcing human slaves to dig a hole in the desert using only primitive hand tools...that wouldn't be on Lorrd, by any chance...?

TC

 

My biggest problem is the galaxy now no longer has a million settled star systems.

It now has a BILLION.

Somewhere, along the way, the galaxy became x1000 larger.

 

Ord as short for "Ordnance/Regional Depot" is a pretty old explanation, but I don't recall the original source. The Atlas adds that they were created as part of Contispex's Pius Dea Crusades, and all that Charles said.

 

Ah, and that also explains why "Red Twins" is marked as one of the Outer Rim Sieges. Excellent!

Kalee's system has a planet with name Abbaji, the same as a planet near Endor - is that also a duplicate planet name like Ruul?

 

Is Eport on the map? I can't seem to find it...

TC

 

The "Ord" acronym dates at least from Dan's original Essential Guide to Planets and Moons; not sure if it came from anything before that but it sounds like something WEG would have cooked up.

 

Charlemagne 19's Review of the Star Wars Atlas

I'm of mixed feeilings.

1. The drastic re-sizing of the galaxy is something I don't really approve of. The galaxy was large enough with 100,000 inhabitants planets being more than enough that we'd never cover them all. Yet, we had a million planets that was roughly corresponding to the Warhammer 40K universe. Now we have a BILLION planets, which is just ridiculous. There's literally no way that a Empire could exist in any, shape, or form that I can think of where Palpatine or Leia or anyone holds any real individual sway over the universe.

I disapprove, I disapprove heartily. Palpatine probably never even met most of his ADVISORS to realistic run something like this.

2. I personally feel that Jabiim's lack of inclusion in the major write-ups is a major foul-up because the planet played a fairly pivotal place in the Clone Wars. Also, we never got to find out what happened to Jabiim after it was forcibly depopulated by the revenge of Darth Vader during the Galactic Civil War.

3. The idea of Imperial Anti-Slaving laws is just silly. For twenty years, Star Wars has gone with the idea that the Empire repealed the Republic's slaving laws. The Mon Calamari, the Nosurians, the Wookiees, and so on were all victims of the Empire's slavery. What exactly compelled the writers to think this was a good idea? The idea that criminals could be enslaved but not sapient species?

It downgrades the Empire's racism and frankly sends a disturbing lesson about the possibility of such things being ignored in real life.

4. I like the transformation of Grand Moff to a historical title. It's been a long time in the EU that we have had the Moff title but we never got a real explanation of what a Moff was. The idea that it existed in the early years of the Republic was nicely handled.

5. I think Grand Moff Kaine's death is still startingly vague. Was he executed for treason as the text implies or did he die in battle? I would have preferred a more rounded explanation because I was one of the first people to believe Kaine died for refusing to completely bow to the Emperor while GAJ went with the idea he died nobily.

6. As a huge WEG fan, I like the lionization of the Pentastar Alignment as the heart of the Second Empire. I also think GAJ will appreciate that it's canonized, more or less, that the Empire of Daala and Pellaeon has no real connection to the Empire of Palpatine after the dissolution of the Crimson Empire.

BTW, I enjoy the canonization of those terms in-universe.

7. The book is going to irritate both Grand Admiral Jello and myself. Emperor Palpatine is given credit for retaking Coruscant. On page 204, he's the one who assembles the coalition that retakes Coruscant. However, then the book goes on to say that the clone more or less lets the Empire enter civil war WHILE fighting the New Republic.

That is the biggest credit to the idea that the Clone is insane.

8. The establishing of Admiral Zsinj as a Grand Moff is curious to me. We've had mentions of the possibility before but was the Admiral title just a holdover or what? It's rather peculiar, though it does explain how he assembled such a massive military empire as opposed to just being another rogue Naval Officer.

9. I absolutely 100% love the Hydian Way opera. What I love most is actually Banu Hydia's portrayal by Amaro Fonteen with a COMPNOR defense of it. The fact they actually stuck a reference in to Blackface of all things into a Star Wars book is tremendous.

10. Admiral Gar Stazi's Galactic Core Fleet has control over Ryloth and Sluis Van? Really, it's interesting to realize that the "Retaking Bastion" thing is actually also a lot more realistic. Roan Fel seems to control more or less the entire former Imperial Remnant as opposed to one single planet.

11. The book seems to confirm there's a Marshal Petain situation going on with the Galactic Alliance having formal existence but "de facto" Imperial control. I am not sure I like that as it complicates a simple total annexation of the Allia

 

regarding the Abbaji in same system as Kalee:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Abbaji

is the Dawn pyramid on Aargau the same as the massive pyramid city Boba fett and aurra Sing visit on Aargau in the Boba fett kiddie books?

Did the discrepeancy of planets in the Empress Teta system, that existed between TOTJ comics and Planet Hoppers, get resolved?

I am glad y?all clarified there are two Ruuls. I always had a hard time figuring out how the beautiful garden moon of the Weequay elite became the barren human-inhabited canyon world!

I am glad Acherin got included?I am thinking the Atlas will provide possibilities for all kind of fanon ?theme? maps, like maps illustrating Separatist remnants or travels of OB1 and Ferus.

Regarding the mysteriousness of EOTH, I wonder what revelations Unknown Regions WOTC supplements may have?

As for Ord?s being for benefit of humans, that is rather sad (if realistic), especially since some Ord?s are homeworld (Ord Radama, Ord Cestus, etc.)


concerning Wonders of the Galaxy, this older article
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wonders_of_the_Galaxy
lists several not on the Atlas list. It seems to me looking over these they are too young maybe to be included in the 10000 BBY list. Were there later or rival lists drawn up that listed an alternate 20, more than 20, or modern as opposed to ancient wonders? This article seems to indicate the Empire had its own list.

I am also curious as to what the capital of the Pentastar Alignment was.

ok, what was the capital of the Empire (ie, of the Council) after Coruscant fell? They had to have some HQ between Isard's loss of Coruscant and the Emperor's public "I'm back" on Byss, right?

After Byss, best I know the next capital was Ord Cantrell; after its fall I'm a bit vague on whether or not the capital was immediately moved to Sartinaynian. From Zahn's duology I got the impression "Bastion" was a codename for WHEREVER the capital was, and that the capital had been moved periodically over the years, Sartinaynian being only the most recent "Bastion" and made the permanent one only bc the GP Treaty made keeping the location secret no longer necessary.

 

There's a nice rant by one of the Senators that Democracy was invented by humans and for humans. Basically, it favors them since they're the most populous race in the galaxy and it all focuses Coreward.

 

no there were always about +-50 million systems...now there are 69 million inhabited systems include 1,75 million full member worlds!

the ~1 billion inhabited systems are all known galaxy-wide

My question is what is the differential between sectors and subsector?

and was the 1024 sector rule after the fall of the Republic repealed?

 

It's still ridiculous.

 

Chuck, 2,000 years ago....

[image=http://www.dl.ket.org/latin1/gallery/people/images/cicero_.jpg]

Six billion people? Ridiculous! How could an individual affect history in such a world!

 

It was in Pirates & Privateers the year earlier. Whether it dates to something earlier than that, I don't know.

According to that book, they were still creating Ords (e.g. Ord Antalaha) as late as the Clone Wars.

 

I don't really understand what the difference is...

Both are huge numbers, far beyond any form of government on Earth. If you can swallow a million, a billion is little different to a trillion or a quadrillion. They're all incomprehensibly gigantic forms of government compared to our own minuscule social structures.

The same, of course, would be true if you went and got a Stone Age caveman who ran a tribe of fifty people and showed him the USA. Once upon a time feudal lords couldn't manage their own families, let alone entire countries.

Hmm... if I'm understanding you right, I'm actually surprised if that was the reason, as having the large numbers be pacifists remains in keeping with her small clans as the few who remained militarised. People and societies don't remain static forever (even the Jedi and the Sith don't), so having a bit more diversity is a welcome introduction in my book.

It also would help account for how quickly Mandalorian culture was revitalised by the time of LOTF. In essence, I suppose what would have happened is all the people who had downed arms finally decided to take them up again at some point... either during the Galactic Civil War, or, in particular, during the Yuuzhan Vong War.

It's not completely without precedent either... Mandalore the Preserver, i.e. Canderous, was in a certain sense a peace maker as well. He was not a pacifist, but he certainly seemed open to putting Mandalorian culture first, rather than just running knee jerk into another war with the Sith. It certainly seems a bit strange that there were tons of Mandalorians who just sat the entire Clone Wars out, but depending on what had happened in this other war three hundred years earlier (I take it ARR is After Ruusan Reformations?), it may just be that the bulk of Mandalore's regular population had the fight beaten out of them.

Which in turn makes the few who are still warriors come the Clone Wars the lone dogs of war who are still standing up for what they believe to be true Mandalorian culture, instead of having anything to do with the ordinary population who had just surrendered and given up. Actually, it'd pretty much be a "the last of the Jedi will you be" situation: Luke, Ben and Yoda were the only ones left playing Knights; the rest had just crawled into a hole somewhere. Presumably we've not got a similar setup with the Mandalorian clans.

Or do you mean they were still warriors who fought in the CW, but just didn't wear armour?

 

A question for Dan and Jason: In the Bothawui planetary profile, Golm is said to have the alternate name "Bothawui Prime". Is that a retcon for the ringed, gas-giant-looking Bothawui from TCW?

 

In the text and the chart on pg. ix, the standard OBAFGKM naming convention is used for stellar classification. In the chart included with the illustrationon pg. xi, though, each star type is associated with an Aurebesh letter which doesn't match up with that system; instead, it seems to just go through alphabetically, A-P. Was this an error, or are the letters used in Aurebesh to classify stars different from those used in normal writing?

 

Thanks.

As for the twins' birthdate, there are several battles that day, so that day is pinned down if you know what to look for. I don't have it in front of me right now, though. I seem to recall it being the day of a battle at Ord Mantell, but I'm not able to check right now.

If it helps, I've got TPM covering a total of fifteen days.

Too long.

I've been thinking about doing a thread on figuring out timelines of each of the movies. The Atlas confirming some stuff and providing other new stuff makes it easier.

For what it's worth, LFL already has this, at least to some extent. That's how we're able to have so many detailed HoloNet News dates, for example.

 

You sound as if this is a bad thing. My book is still in transit, can't wait!

Exactly. This is a galaxy of civilizations, few people seem to appreciate what that actually means. The astronomical amount of worlds is just that, astronomical. Same with the words "quadrillion" and "quintillion", although there might be "good" and "sound" reasons why there can't possibly be that many people or soldiers or whatever next in a galaxy. Not that I have any experience in mapping out civilizations in real life, but I guess others on this board do?

 

My question is what is the differential between sectors and subsector?

and was the 1024 sector rule after the fall of the Republic repealed?

 

As some arbitrary numbers... if the Earth's population is currently 6.8 billion, so let's round that up to 7 billion, or throwing in the zeroes for added bafflement 7,000,000,000.

So, if there are a million inhabited worlds, that gives us a galactic population of 7,000,000,000,000,000. If instead we now have a billion inhabited worlds, that now gives us a galactic population of 7,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Honestly, I don't particularly care about the extra three zeroes one way or the other. It's still a really big number, insanely more so than anything on Earth. If Palpatine could cope with 7,000,000,000,000,000 then I'm sure he can handle 7,000,000,000,000,000,000.

Having said all that, "inhabited world" could mean anything really. Dessel came from an "inhabited world", but I doubt Apatros had that all many people living on it, so the actual figures are in fact probably much lower than basic multiples of the Earth's population. Antarctica is "inhabited"... by a couple of scientists, etc.

Plus "population numbers" start to become even more meaningless when you also throw in the fact alien species come in all shapes and sizes, so what is a high or low population for us might be completely wrong for a huge population race like the Killiks. I daresay places like the Colony would distort the galactic average through the way the Killiks pretty much lived everywhere they could find, so in a system that humans might only have colonised a lone world, the Killiks probably would have hives on every single rock orbiting the star.

So make that one small rock for humanity, one giant system for bugkind.

 

There's also the fact of inhabited moons, asteroids, space stations, travelling starships. And all from the same system, potentially. And species that reproduced much more rapidly than human beings.