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Senate The EU Senate - Closed by Sith Coup d'etat

Discussion in 'EU Community' started by GrandAdmiralJello , Jul 25, 2007.

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  1. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    The only reason I can see for having a volunteer then, would be to call what topic is next up for discussion. Other than that, no real reason. Sey's point about having the person who posted the topic lead the discussion makes sense.
     
  2. Kahn_Iceay

    Kahn_Iceay Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2006
    The only issue I see with that is that if someone wants to discuss something or if a person has more than one idea. People will complain over who goes first or complain over someone over running the thread and taking it over.

    So I think a person, like the Chancellor, without VIPship, should be selected via General Consent of the forum to run the thread for a set period of time to set schedules for peoples ideas and discussions. Senators wouldn't be necessary, but thread representatives could still be selected as needed to relay ideas. This way, the users still have a place for intra-thread relationships in someway ran by the users. The Mods don't have to be bothered cause nobody has to get VIPship, they'd only have to step in if people got out of line or violated the rules.

    Every once in a while set up a poll to elect a new 'thread leader' or however they're titled, and after a certain point in time the person with the highest number of votes sets up the schedule of people representing idea's and threads. Its simpler then a full blown senate and less chaotic then a free for all discussion thread.
     
  3. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    That's were courtesy and modding comes into play. Whoever posts first gets to have the discussion first. Once that dies down, then we move on. Its no different from any other thread.
     
  4. Kahn_Iceay

    Kahn_Iceay Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Modding shouldn't come into play. Unless things get out of hand and rules start getting violated Mods shouldn't be forced to go out of their way and effect the interactivity of users and user groups. Having someone who maintains a schedule keeps you Mods from having to do something that you're not necessarily required to do. It keeps things orderly, a loose backbone to keep everything running smoothly.
     
  5. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I don't have any real problem with a single, non-vip discussion leader/facilitator. I'd still like this place to be run by the community.

    However, with the bureaucracy gone, the mods might also be able to interact more directly with the users here because it would be a one-on-one sort of thing instead of having to go through the framework of the Senate.
     
  6. Thrawn1786

    Thrawn1786 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2004
    I agree with all three. It might be naive of me to assume this, but unless you stay on everyone's case all the time(and where's the fun in that, mods and users alike?), it's really hard to keep courtesy in line when people really get going, RL and OL alike. And time zones might play a factor into the idea of who gets there first. We've all had posts where we thought our words were the first, only to look up and see others ahead because of the way the boards go when several people try to post in the same thread at the exact same time. While that shouldn't be a cause for trouble, it would get pretty annoying. A simple schedule would take care of such.

    To take Horsey's idea and give it a bit of a tweak, perhaps there could be a sign-up of sorts for the schedule, and whoever gets there first as far as sign ups go, that's what is discussed first. And to take Jello's idea, if the mods are involved with this discussion thread via posting(heck knows you two already have enough on your plates) maybe that will be enough to quell any possible problems. Everyone would be on equal footing unless the situation called for it.
     
  7. Aspiration

    Aspiration Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2008
    While it's obvious that activity has dropped severely, I don't think taking away all the formality of the Senate is the best solution.


    Some threads having designated representatives and not others would most likely result in a much worse case of the average member being unwilling to post. Nothing would change for some groups, which undoubtedly wouldn't solve any problems, while the others would end up with a feeling of 'our opinion isn't wanted anyway, so why bother?'


    The mods appointing people would, I think, be contradictory to the purpose of the Senate. I see nothing wrong with the elections.

    I'm on the same page as everyone else concerning VIPship, though.
     
  8. CPL_Macja

    CPL_Macja Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Holy cow I go out of town for a couple of days and come back to find the Senate hall alive with discussion.

    IMHO I think that the Senate should go, but the Senate Hall should stay. Cut out all the useless bureaucracy have this as a place where users can gather to discuss ways to better the EUC as a whole.

    I agree that there should be one person who leads the discussion. This person would not have VIP-ship, a staff, or any special powers other then guiding the discussion. There should be an "understudy" to the leader in case of the leader needing to be away.

    These people should be selected by the users of the EUC (possibly in a poll format) with the top vote getter being the leader, and the second being the backup.

    I also think that ideas for discussion should be PMed to the leader so that they may maintain a schedule for when the next topic is brought up.

    As far as where the Senate hall is set up I think it should be a sticky on the first page of the EUC much like the Welcome Thread is. This way users don't need to go searching for the Senate to have their voices heard.

    Like I said this is just IMHO.

    Thank you,

    ~CPL
     
  9. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    *muses on this, and decides he should comment, as one of these nebulous Chancellors of eras gone by*

    I think that the political element, the large heirarchy, could possibly be thinned, but the Senate need not be destroyed. The potential for the EUC is there, it just requires a Chancellor to do it. That was always my contention - that the Senate can run things if the Chancellor is willing to take these threads of activity and community and make something out of it. It takes a great deal of work, and it can be difficult to find what to channel that into, as well - there are only so many things we can run/do/play/create. In some moments, however, it can be even more difficult to achieve - perhaps even impossible.

    There's also the fact that the EU has taken some sharp body blows as of late. The NJO stirred up opinions and activity, but LotF just killed characters. The toll from LotF was horrendous, and although it might be for some long-spanning reason that we can't see as of yet, it has stung mainstays such as the NJO/LotF FC, the Jacen FC, etc. Legacy also runs the risk of stunting the current Bantam/Del Rey generation with plotlines already clearly decided. But that's more of a discussion for Lit.

    But look at it this way, as well. Our primary sources of the EU as of late are the Clone Wars TV series, and before that the Force Unleashed arc. The future is likely to be dominated by the Old Republic MMORPG. None of which are friendly to the EUC, and all of which are friendly to the LACWAC, SWC and Games forums. The EUC has LotF and FotJ - neither of which are very popular in their own right (see above).

    But that's not what I'm saying, either.

    *stares into space, and thinks for a moment*

    The Senate became, after a fashion, a route to Modship, and then, dutifully, we removed the Mods from the standing. This route wasn't anything formal, nay, just a realisation by the Mods that anyone willing to be Chancellor had the dedication to the boards to become something more than a VIP. It's the way things go, really. But what eventually happened that there was a disjoint between one generation and the next - that the Chancellors became Mods too quickly, and the roots weren't sufficiently laid down to continue and nurture the growth.

    I'll accept a dose of blame for that, myself, there. I don't feel like I sufficently focused on the next generation - or DRL won a few rounds and claimed a few of the next gems e.g. Sorridom, Ewok15, etc. But look at things - from the last half a dozen Chancellors and Vice Chancellors we have Jello, Sey, myself, Imperial_Hammer and Prenn - all Mods to some degree.

    I think the simplest thing to do would be to allow Mods to become a Chancellor. Make them chosen by popular vote still nonetheless - and thus they can be nominated and refuse, etc etc - but allow the Chancellor to have a larger mechanic to run things - and not end up forced to do everything by a weak link in the chain of Mod and Senate; the government itself.

    Thoughts?
     
  10. Thrawn1786

    Thrawn1786 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2004
    So, if I'm understanding you correctly, what you're proposing is let the community pick one of the Mods to be Chancellor?
     
  11. Kahn_Iceay

    Kahn_Iceay Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2006
    I have to say. I don't agree. The governing of standard interactions between users and user groups should be done by the users, not the mods. By including Mods into the equation it takes away the little power the users have. The Mods are the Federal Government, the Senate, is the state government. The Feds, in the end, have the power to over rule the state, but for the most part don't have to as the state runs itself. Plain and simple. A Democracy. When it comes to your standard everyday forum activities the Users should be the ones working on what the users do. When you have the Federal government becoming directly involved with the state it becomes more a Communist state. The Senate, as a Senate, or as a Discussion thread of any type, should be a User driven institution.
     
  12. cloneCommando1138

    cloneCommando1138 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2005
    sounds like the century old debate between small government involvement vs. large is coming up...

    even though I haven't been here in a while, i have to say that I think that allowing mods to become chancellor would be acceptable. as long as it wasn't limited to mods only..
     
  13. Mikaboshi

    Mikaboshi Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Why can't the person just be someone who is very interested and has a lot of time and ideas? Rank, titles, EUS experience and such should be a total non-factor here. As long as the person in the position has a strong desire to do this and actually backs it up with some action, it shouldn't matter if the person is a mod or oldbie or newbie.

    As long as we get results, who cares?
     
  14. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I don't like the idea of a mod being chancellor for several reasons. Firstly, it defeats the point of having a community instititution. Secondly, it adds extra work that we really don't need. Thirdly, the mods could just as easily do these projects on their own (Horsey mentioned the stuff she likes to put up for holidays and events, for instance) without being chancellor.

    What I suspect is that Sinre is aching to sit in the chancellor's seat again.

    To that I respond: look at what D1, myself, and others have been saying. The pomp and formality (and you know how I love formality) get in the way. If you have ideas for the EUC, Sinre, post them here as a user in a community fashion. You know people will hear you out.

    You don't need a title for it, whether underneath your name or not. You don't need a staff for it. If you enjoy taking on responsibilities, make the offer.
     
  15. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Oh dear Wotan no. I don't want to be Chancellor. Far too busy offline and on to take on a responsibility that deserves me dedicating more than the 1% of my Net time I'd be able to offer it. Nay, nay, nay. What I was hoping to circumvent was the sense that Sey feels guilt for doing things for the Senate and thus eventual frustration with it.

    I don't have any more ideas. I know very well that people listen to me. Too much for my liking!

    *chuckles softly*

    *gives Kahn a glance*

    I don't have a comment about the governmental model. I live in a weaker democracy than you'd care for, probably. But yes, the Moderators could do it, they don't need a title, don't need a staff, don't need anything if they want to do it. Nobody does, arguably. But it's still a voluntary job, as much as Chancellor is. I'm not advocating formality, I'm throwing another solution into the pot.

    It can be dissected, and destroyed. I have no possession of it once I've handed it out to you guys.
     
  16. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    It looks like most have come around to the idea of turning this into a communications thread for the EUC and seeing how that goes. As Jello and I have said, this isn't something set in stone, but I think we need to do a trial run for a few months to see how this goes.

    Any other discussion on this?
     
  17. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Looks like that's about it.
     
  18. CPL_Macja

    CPL_Macja Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2008
    That being said... who volunteers to lead the discussion first?
     
  19. The Loyal Imperial

    The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 19, 2007
    I'll volunteer, if you need somebody.
     
  20. CPL_Macja

    CPL_Macja Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2008
    Seeing as it has been a week with no other takers... Loyal Imperial I think you're it.

    {If the Mods have no problem with it that is.}
     
  21. Deciple_of_Malak

    Deciple_of_Malak Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Finally managed to get the time to read through this discussion. So here's my opinion. I don't think the Senate should be disbanded. Ok, I'm personaly not the most active of users around, but as long as I've participated in the live of EUC, Senate has been present, shaping up things, coming up with cool ideas. And I had a good time as Acolytes of Revan Senator, being able to participate in life of the community, posting news in the main thread, etc. Now, as I've said, I'm not the most active person around, due to real life being real life, but EUS still means something and I think that the Seante probably has an even bigger role in hearts of poeple who get to be online every day. That's just my 2 cents.
     
  22. Fire_Ice_Death

    Fire_Ice_Death Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2001

    That actually made me support the EUS again for a fraction of a second. Bravo. Something I created means something. Even if it is a little thing online. Good to know.
     
  23. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    If anyone has an idea for a poll post it here!
     
  24. Kahn_Iceay

    Kahn_Iceay Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Well, here's a question in regards to polls. Does the EUC poll need to necessarily be about the EU? Or could it be something in regards to the Users of the EUC? An example being, a Poll about Favorite Music Genres? I mean if we can "Not discuss Star Wars in the JCC" certainly we can discuss a few non star wars things in the EUC no?
     
  25. s65horsey

    s65horsey Otter-loving Former EUC Mod star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Actually, our polls need to directly relate to Star Wars EU. Because otherwise we're stepping on the C&G forum's toes and we don't want to do that. You can always do an informal poll in the Social thread for music genres, but we can't have that be a formal poll.
     
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