Senate The European Politics Thread

Ah, Jacques Chirac. I remember when he brought in religious symbols ban 11 years ago.

As I said in a different thread, France has one of the worst records of integration in Europe; its what has led to the riots recently and 11 years ago, too.

 

This is such a calculatingly nasty and devious juxtaposition. People are protesting an instance of rape by police officers, symptomatic of systemic injustice and abuse of power, and she urges people to refrain from protesting out of respect for the police, framing it as if those who protest are opposed to the police as a whole, or against policing altogether. She is deliberately framing it as an all or nothing, us vs them, with us or against us. If you're siding with the protesters, you are ipso facto a thug.

 

She is also trying to suggest it is really about Islam and not institutional racism within the police force.

 

Funny how the assimilationist cultures in the West are having a devil of a time with racial disharmony and have such a tightly woven tapestry of shared values. French republicanism informed American republicanism; both are assimilationist over multicultural, and both have significant integration issues.

That's not to imply multicultural societies are free of any strain or stress; just that it is not as pronounced.

 

That's the problem, you could argue, with a republic; the assumption everyone will happily adopt one identity and live happily ever after. In most cases, it won't happen - people will want to maintain cultural heritage and beliefs, whilst being French or American. If the system opposes it, like French Africans of Latino Americans, you'll find those groups will begin to dissociate themselves from the rest of society.

 

It is the bizarre concept that, somehow, multiculturalism undermines the values of the Republic.

 

The French tend to see it as undermining their own culture. Bit daft but they can't help it. They're French.

 

BBC News reporting that French police are searching the National Front HQ in Paris in relation to Le Pen's fake EU Parliamentary assistant job.. Nothing further - it's just breaking news.

 

Whether this will dent her is hard to tell. Corruption is so common in French politics; the police might as well house officers in each party HQ.

 

Isn't culture something that is malleable? What makes the French or Chinese or anyone else think their culture today is the same as it was a hundred years ago...or even twenty years ago?

 

France has a history of this, not only with immigrant/post-immigrant populations but also with local cultures and minorities. For instance the way the people from Brittany were forced to assimilate was horrendous (they had signs in shops, administrations etc that read "it's forbidden to spit on the floor and to speak Breton" and stuff like that). France has pretty much taken the notion of a single, homogeneous national identity as the foundation of the nation-state to the extreme. That does come with some positives (e.g. a very strong public education system) but combined with immigration from their former colonial empire and the way they handled it, it's a pretty toxic mix.

 

In theory, yes. But national heritage and history dilutes it, in some cases. In Europe, there is a romantic link to our historical past. Of course, though, a minority to take it to blood and soil nationalism.

 

how does the system oppose French Africans ?

.

 

Macron takes a hit in the polls after, quite rightly, pointing out French colonial activities were far from saintly.

French voters are so confusing sometimes.

 

Erm, or Americans?

The idea is not that culture is immutable, it's that the primary identity is Being French and Having French Values. In some cases, as Chyntuck said, they've gone to extremes in support of this. But they still regard being French as the most important thing. You guys aren't that different, in terms of the value of Being American and having American Values.

I think, and I speak not for but looking meaningfully at my British siblings, the beauty of being multicultural is that you have no idea what it means to be <insert that country's name in adjectival form here>.

 

Yeah, see France's immigration laws in the 1990s. Being born in France didn't count for automatic citizenship in some cases (i.e born to a foreign parent)

LOL so true.

It's the opposite to being Irish American*

"Hey, I'm Irish, too"
"But you're 1/28th Irish?"
"I know. That makes me Irish!"

*Ironically, my Northern Irish blood is mixed with Irish American. We owned land in the colonies

 

and I mean, look at the pomp of those countries. France and America have pompous anthems - revolutionary themed war songs. Yours asks an invisible friend to look after Her Maj (a reasonably request) or in my case, says our country is roundly okay.

 

Have you heard the second and third verses? we ask the sky pixie to kill people and destroy governments in her name. It's quite romantic, really.

Regarding the French anthem, at least people stick the revolutionary themes and overthrow the republic when it fails - unlike Uncle Sam and his kids.

 

Yes but I mean, I support that. I personally wish she'd speed up the timeframe to announce she will live for four thousand years and that the Second British Empire is has arrived, mofos.

 

I've never understood why Europeans have a problem with this. My great grandfather was born in Ireland. My grandfather was born in India (british Raj). If I say I'm Indian-American, there's no problem. If I say I'm Irish-American, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. Seriously people.

 

Honestly Lord Vivec, I don't have an answer for you. Just brought up around people, who took offences if you were not truly Irish. Usually it is the Irish ask about your heritage; and, yeah, there is a strong cultural dislike towards Irish Americans.

 

Well as soon as you go beyond half-something ("I'm 1/8th Irish!"), you're really stretching. It's the same here when people have their Irish or Scots ancestry makeup and you're like... they left Scotland 200 years ago mate, pretty sure you can let that go?