Discussion in 'Community' started by DANNASUK, Feb 16, 2017.
I see no problem with it, since there is at least a days time inbetween the posts
Congrats! Wish the same would happen to our (Slovak) neo-Nazi party leaders...
Send them over @Mar17swgirl, we have a few good judges and comfy jails
One of the big honchos is apparently on the run, the police can't find him. It's lucky the prosecutor had argued in favour of a suspended sentence because there was no flight risk.
Yes, I'm enjoying all this far too much
Macron and other French politicians/academics say the ideas of leftists in the United States on gender and race are too radical and a threat for France
The threat is said to be existential. It fuels secessionism. Gnaws at national unity. Abets Islamism. Attacks France’s intellectual and cultural heritage.
The threat? “Certain social science theories entirely imported from the United States,’’ said President Emmanuel Macron.
French politicians, high-profile intellectuals and journalists are warning that progressive American ideas — specifically on race, gender, post-colonialism — are undermining their society. “There’s a battle to wage against an intellectual matrix from American universities,’’ warned Mr. Macron’s education minister.
Mass protests in France against police violence, inspired by the killing of George Floyd, challenged the official dismissal of race and systemic racism. A #MeToo generation of feminists confronted both male power and older feminists. A widespread crackdownfollowing a series of Islamist attacks raised questions about France’s model of secularism and the integration of immigrants from its former colonies.
Some saw the reach of American identity politics and social science theories. Some center-right lawmakers pressed for a parliamentary investigation into “ideological excesses’’ at universities and singled out “guilty’’ scholars on Twitter.
France has long laid claim to a national identity, based on a common culture, fundamental rights and core values like equality and liberty, rejecting diversity and multiculturalism.
To many scholars on race, however, the reluctance is part of a long history of denying racism in France and the country’s slave-trading and colonial past.
“What’s more French than the racial question in a country that was built around those questions?’’ said Mame-Fatou Niang, who divides her time between France and the United States, where she teaches French studies at Carnegie Mellon University.
Three Islamist attacks last fall served as a reminder that terrorism remains a threat in France. They also focused attention on another hot-button field of research: Islamophobia, which examines how hostility toward Islam in France, rooted in its colonial experience in the Muslim world, continues to shape the lives of French Muslims.
Abdellali Hajjat, an expert on Islamophobia, said that it became increasingly difficult to focus on his subject after 2015, when devastating terror attacks hit Paris. Government funding for research dried up. Researchers on the subject were accused of being apologists for Islamists and even terrorists.
Finding the atmosphere oppressive, Mr. Hajjat left two years ago to teach at the Free University of Brussels, in Belgium, where he said he found greater academic freedom.
“On the question of Islamophobia, it’s only in France where there is such violent talk in rejecting the term,’’ he said.
Along with Islamophobia, it was through the “totally artificial importation’’ in France of the “American-style Black question” that some were trying to draw a false picture of a France guilty of “systemic racism’’ and “white privilege,’’ said Pierre-André Taguieff, a historian and a leading critic of the American influence.
Mr. Taguieff said in an email that researchers of race, Islamophobia and post-colonialism were motivated by a “hatred of the West, as a white civilization.’’
“The common agenda of these enemies of European civilization can be summed up in three words: decolonize, demasculate, de-Europeanize,’’ Mr. Taguieff said. “Straight white male — that’s the culprit to condemn and the enemy to eliminate.”
Behind the attacks on American universities — led by aging white male intellectuals — lie the tensions in a society where power appears to be up for grabs, said Éric Fassin, a sociologist who was one of the first scholars to focus on race and racism in France, about 15 years ago.
Macron once again accommodating French ethnonationalist (i.e. racist) sentiments? I’m not that surprised.
Well, I see the New York Times does not actually pay attention to what thinkers and politicians have to say across near the entire French political spectrum, and carefully pick out a few sentences after removing their entire context to build their argument. The selection of people quoted is rather remarkable as well in how the NYT uses them to construct its narrative - because that's what it is, in the end: an American narrative for American audiences with Americanocentric views, concerns, and the attendant BS.
Then again, after their infamous misrepresentation of national student identification numbers that existed since the early 2000s as being a tool designed in 2020 to register and discriminate against Muslims, I'm not too keen to place importance on anything the NYT has to say about the racial debates in France, and would encourage people to take everything they have to say about France with a grain of salt - they have proved willing to resort to fake news.
I know nothing about this particular story, but The New York Times are notoriously bad when it comes to reporting on other countries. Unfortunately they're still counted as one of the most reliable news outlets in the US, so their shoddy reporting gets taken seriously.
I don't see how a common culture and fundamental rights are somehow incompatible with diversity or multiculturalism.
Wow, Sarkozy gets a custodial sentence. Little Nicky in the Big House.
It's only the "Big House" if his actual house is big.
Unless this piece of info that makes France look bad is also fake news according to Lordban
Nice troll, kid.
The actual answer for people who are actually interested: hard jail sentences tend to be commuted when they are below two years here, that's the reason the public prosecution had required two years hard time + two years suspended, which would have been enough to actually get Sarkozy jailed.
Restriction of movement + electronic bracelet is indeed a likely possibility - should a court of appeals confirm the sentence. Sarkozy has thirty days to appeal, and he almost certainly will; the appeal suspends the sentence, as there was no immediate execution included in the sentence.
His initial sentence was three years, but two were suspended, and the last one gets to be at home. I'm sure you think you're not a joke when you jump in every time France looks bad (like earlier in the thread with the French government going after universities), but I can assure you people looking at this think it's bad.
Amusingly enough, you called me out by name, and now are taunting me for having responded. A couple of years back, when I attempted to draw a reaction out of you and you pointed out it's against the rules, I accepted that and reported myself to moderation. Let's see if you have the same intellectual honesty today.
I actually don't care about whether Sarkozy's conviction makes us look good or bad, or how his sentence is handled in the end - if it is confirmed; as explained above, there's an appeal process. And if you actually paid attention to what happened to past French Presidents, it's the second time one of them is convicted in the last ten years (the other one was Chirac).
I did explain, in a few words, how this works, and what is likely to happen next. I happen to be working in law. It's also why I can correct you about "his initial sentence was three years" with 100% certainty about the terms of sentencing - this is the initial sentence, not was, and two of those years are suspended, leaving one year hard time as delivered in one sentence and one singular verdict, passed in a judgment by the Tribunal Judiciaire de Paris today, which did not demand immediate execution of the sentence. This latter element is why Sarkozy is not already in jail this afternoon.
Normal process, if the sentence is not appealed, is the scheduling of an audience in front of the Juge des Libertés et de la Détention (lit. judge of liberties and imprisonment), who would be the one to decide how the one year in jail sentence sees application. As delineated above, official policy is to try and find alternates to jail when the sentence is less than two years of hard time, which is why there would be a chance Sarkozy would end up imprisoned at home with an electronic bracelet to monitor him.
If he doesn't appeal, which, again, he has 30 days to do, and is almost guaranteed to happen.
We have Draghi mfs !!! Who's the loser now?
Wow, I really am behind on my Euro politics. Ex vampire squid, Ex head of ECB, now PM. Where next?
Obligatory posting of the never not funny Crouching Tiger, Hidden Draghi pic
There's a limited lifespan on his government, though. He doesn't really have a coalition to fall back on, and the next general election, if I remember correctly, is in 2023.
EDIT - Oh, and Sarkozy is indeed appealing. So is his lawyer. If the former judge who was sentenced with them doesn't, it's going to get very, very awkward.
Well, if we want to make it serious, yeah, we are going nowhere, with or without Draghi.