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ST The Even More Magniloquent New Rumor Intellectual Thread of Seriousness for Sophisticated Discourse

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by A Chorus of Disapproval , Dec 15, 2015.

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  1. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Jun 12, 2011
    It reminded me of a character who was assumed to be dead and then against all odds, came back next episode with just "I got lucky, real lucky" for an explanation. Meh.
  2. MotherNature's SilverSeed

    MotherNature's SilverSeed Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 4, 2013

    But really, that's kind of the question, and it depends to a certain degree on how much Rey springing from anonymous (for all intents and purposes) loins contributes to a major theme in the macro sense.

    In other words, a question we should really be asking is:

    IF Rey is "random," will we ever find out who her parents were?
    • because Rey (and the viewer) never finding out who they are, but (at some pivotal point in the timeline of her character arc) accepting that she'll never know and moving on, could be a seen as a expression of the themes that find virtue in "acceptance" and "personal strength" and "personal growth."
    • Or does it turn out that her parents and the circumstances surrounding and details of that flashback scene are important to the main plot...and we will in fact find out who they are, because there's "story" there?
    • I like to color.
  3. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 17, 2013
    Great stuff to discuss in the last few posts, I wanted to throw in my thoughts:

    1. Bloodlines absolutely, positively, without a shadow of a doubt closes the debate for me as to whether Rey was dropped off on Jakku after the academy massacre. As the poster above discusses nicely, Bloodlines is set 6 years before TFA, and Ben Solo has not turned. Rey is about 13 years old when this event happens. She had already been on Jakku for years at the time of this event. I don't see how Rey's arrival on Jakku can have any link at all to the massacre.

    2. Secondly, if someone of significance from the Alliance/New Republic stashed Rey on Jakku, why would they have left her with a common thug like Unkar Plott -- the Watto of this trilogy -- to live a life of misery?

    3. IMO, the path of the saber lost its importance when the map being carried by BB-8 became the key to finding Luke. The 'a good question for another time' line was a way to smooth over that plothole created by the change and get the saber into the hands of the heroes without it being the key to finding Luke. Hence, the missing shot of Maz handing the saber to Leia that we saw in trailer. I think it is clear the story of how the saber got back to the heroes changed. I don't expect it to be addressed again, because it isn't critical to the story. If there was some business about Maz swiping it from Ren, perhaps the 'that saber belongs to me' line was a holdover from the larger, abandoned path of the saber storyline and no longer holds the same relevance. ALSO NOTE: Maz is a thousand years old. If the saber came to her a mere six years ago -- at the time of or after the massacre -- I would hardly consider that an 'age', particularly for someone as old as Maz.

    According to Mark Hamill, TFA originally DID open with the long-rumored saber tumbling through space shot, so I think we originally were going to get more on its backstory, including the Maz/Rey theft, but when changes were made to the film, they were cut, but some of the references remained, such as the 'that saber belongs to me' line.

    Again, just my opinion, but I think Rey's vision was a combination of the saber's history, her history and possibly her future.
  4. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Apr 16, 2014

    Maybe this guy has seen a ton of concept art? Maybe In the first act Leia has as many or more scenes than she does in TFA, but then she's out of it once she's unconscious of course. "Looks like Han is gone" could just mean he hasn't seen any concept art, but if they pull a brief snippet of his scene with Kylo as a flashback or part of a force vision they don't really need concept art for that now do they? It's the "fair few new characters" that makes be think he's seen concepts and multiple looks/costumes for new characters that weren't in TFA.
  5. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

    Mar 10, 2013
    Passing on one's genetic material is far more important, if we're to pass on anything at all. Humans will always look for rootedness in their relationships and identity can only be understood through an understanding of history. I agree that genetics do not make someone a father or a mother, a sister or brother; people build those relationships. But genes are history and history is identity nonetheless. For instance, Rey may not be a Skywalker, but where does she come from. Does she even parents and what happened to them? If not, is she a Child of the Force? So in the end, if she's not Luke's daughter, some explanation most be given for her existence.
    PlagueisWise and DarthIshyZ like this.
  6. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Jun 12, 2011
    I really want Rey to be tested in VIII, I need to see her fail big time at something or seeing her actions having big consequences for her allies.
    Shadojoker likes this.
  7. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 17, 2013
    This is a never-ending cycle though. Who was Luke's father? That he is so special? Anakin Skywalker. Who was Anakin's father that he is so special? Uhm ... he didn't have one. 17 years after TPM, we still don't know if he was created by The Force or by the Sith. There's evidence for both. There are theories for both. It was meant to be ambiguous to stop the who was Anakin's father's father's father speculation.

    Be prepared that Rey's origin may just be a shrug. I am not saying that is for sure, but they went a little weird with Anakin, right? That it was either a virgin birth or genetic engineering? I am just suggesting that it shouldn't come as a shock if they either go with Rey as well, or just don't go there at all.

    Something that I had never thought of before: If we had the Internet in 1977, would be people be speculating that Obi-Wan Kenobi was actually Luke's father, and threatening to leave if he wasn't?
  8. Darth_Bertie

    Darth_Bertie Force Ghost star 6

    Mar 30, 2014
    So much talk about Rey but, what about Finn? What is he up to on this movie?
    Dak Oolron likes this.
  9. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jan 11, 2016


    Plus... "How can people still think Luke is Darth Vader's son? That has been debunked to high heaven"
  10. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Jun 12, 2011
    What do you think about the possibility of a romance? In ESB we had Han and Leia and in AotC, we had Anakin and Padme but the dynamic was different. I fear we're going to have another romance story because it sells so who?
  11. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

    Oct 31, 2014
    Finn and KMT :)
  12. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Jun 12, 2011
    I really hope they develop her for something other than just romance since this is her introduction. Please?
  13. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 17, 2013
    If they stick to the pattern -- Luke in ESB, Anakin in AOTC -- you will get your wish. :)
  14. ManaByte

    ManaByte Chosen One star 5

    Aug 20, 1998
    Williams says he expects to come back:

    “He plans to begin work on Spielberg’s next film, “Ready Player One,” in November, and then next year expects to do the next “Star Wars” film. “If I can do it, I certainly will. I told Kathy Kennedy I’m happy to do it, but the real reason is, I didn’t want anybody else writing music for Daisy Ridley,” he quips.”
  15. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Apr 16, 2014

    Maybe Rey is Luke's daughter after all, and her being hidden on Jakku is tied in with the arrival/resurgence/reveal of Snoke as a powerful darksider. Snoke's reveal as evil could have happened years before he wooed Ben Solo to the dark side. Luke senses Snoke or has a conflict with him, and to protect his family, his wife and child are hidden away separately. IDK...just spitballing.
    nightangel likes this.
  16. Darth_Zidious

    Darth_Zidious Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Dec 3, 2001
    Definitely not! Some of his speculation has been wrong. Below are the saved posts I have from him in 2014. He may have posted more at the time. Newer posts at the top.

    In spoiler tag due to size.
    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Thu Jul 3 2014 16:45:10

    Makes no difference in this case, Boyega is playing Lando's son.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Thu Jul 3 2014 16:42:29

    Believe me, he's Lando's son.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Thu Jul 3 2014 16:41:09

    Ha. Some of that is so close you wouldn't believe it.

    To whoever didn't believe the stormtrooper lead idea, you're incorrect.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Thu Jul 3 2014 16:35:38

    It's not rumour or speculation when you've seen them with your own eyes

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Mon Jun 30 2014 13:33:10

    Absolutely right, Jeorj. I love this blind ignorance some Americans have about their own culture; apparently this extends to finally include African Americans.

    One thing, though, is the assumption that Boyega is playing a Jedi. This has not been so much as hinted at, and it's been indicated to me that he isn't a Jedi at all, but in fact Lando's son. I imagine he'd make a great rogue, if Han's kids are Jedi and can't fulfil that role.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Mon Jun 30 2014 03:40:49

    He's *probably* Lando's son. Possibly allegedly.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Sun Jun 22 2014 13:39:59

    Crikey it would absolutely get me in trouble. I'm not on Star Wars, but I'm around. I know a couple of other users on the boards are also on the lot.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Sun Jun 22 2014 13:31:07

    I don't know, all I've seen or heard is hearsay on the lot and a few signs, memos etc. I've got to say, people do leave them laying around more than they're supposed to.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Sun Jun 22 2014 13:15:36

    They won't allow that. They would rather push it back, trust me. What I don't want is for them to shoot Ford later and do any atrocious compositing into other scenes, like we saw in the prequels.

    Personally, from the vibe I've gotten from this production, I think they'd rather just leave all his scenes till later and shoot them normally.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Sun Jun 22 2014 13:00:52

    I haven't ever claimed to work on Episode VII. There are many other things going on at Pinewood.

    And you're on ignore, so reply all you wish, I won't.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Tue Jun 17 2014 01:22:39

    Well, the helmets I saw were white. Maybe they'll be painted, though I think they would have been made with black plastic instead if they're black. The story elements suggested there do chime with the sets I've seen; the Imperial installation, Tatooine, Hoth and a tree dwelling (personally hoping that's Yavin IV).

    It's funny, because I've seen what I've seen, we have pieces from various other people and yet we could be piecing it all together completely incorrectly. It's fun.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Mon Jun 16 2014 07:15:46

    That's good speculation and probably close to the truth.

    I do like the helmets being Vader-esque. It's a smart way to keep his presence in the movie even without him there.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Mon Jun 16 2014 06:10:24

    Sadly I only got a proper look at the helmets. The flare out, okay, I can't describe it other than they look like Vader's helmet in that respect, which I love. Obviously made in his image or something like that, which is interesting and a very clever way of keeping his presence in these movies.

    Even though I've seen the sets, seeing these helmets has just set my head on fire!

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Mon Jun 16 2014 04:36:10

    Hehe I suppose my description might have, but that wasn't a thought I had when I saw them. No strobing red eyes at least. They look great though. After seeing them I just couldn't stop thinking what the fu** Lucas was thinking doing all the clone troopers CG. Even his VFX supervisor begged him to build a real suit and Lucas refused.

    I have so much confidence in this new film now, I can't tell you.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Mon Jun 16 2014 04:08:42

    I guess this also confirms something about the story, combined with the big Imperial set they've built. I'm hoping the empire is rebuilding in secret and not "still there".

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Mon Jun 16 2014 04:07:26

    I know some of you won't believe me, and that's cool. Move along.

    For those that are listening, there are real stormtrooper suits at Pinewood. And they're really good. Not a single CG trooper to be seen. ;-)

    They have white helmets which flare out, which is weird but looks good. The eye is just one thin black strip, and it's creepy.

    I have a really good feeling about this.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Wed May 28 2014 14:29:01

    Not unless you can link into my visual memories, I'm afraid hehe. We're not allowed to carry phones on the lot, so unfortunately there's no way to take a pic. And everyone on the lot has been warned in very strong terms not to do so.

    The thing about the Imperial set is that it's totally pristine. It didn't look abandoned or un-maintained for 30 years. It really got my curiosity up, more than the others. The Tatooine set is great, but it is what it is, looks like Tatooine. The Hoth set (if it is Hoth and not another ice planet) was also great, has a crashed ship in the snow, and the tree dwelling was also interesting because what I saw didn't look like either Endor/Ewok or Kashyyyk. Not unless they're reimagining Kashyyyk, which I would welcome. I'm hoping that it's Yavin IV. That I would love.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Wed May 28 2014 07:49:50

    It's a fact, whether you believe it or not, that there is a huge Imperial set built at Pinewood. If you choose not to believe me, then please move on to another thread. If you are open minded enough to accept that a few people on the boards have been to or work at Pinewood, then let's discuss...

    This set is massive, about three storeys high, no blue or green screens, all built in black and chrome, with platforms and gantries etc.. I can't imagine it's anything other than an Imperial set. Now, I personally feel it's likely there will be remnants of the Empire scattered around, but I have no idea how much power they might have, or indeed whether they're actually a new Imperial presence as opposed to what's left of the old one.

    So, how much do you think we'll see of Imperials? How much do you want to see them? Personally, I would sell my grandmother to see Snowtroopers again. And there is an ice planet set... very possibly Hoth.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Mon May 26 2014 13:28:34

    Well then you'll just have to pretend those things I've seen are made up until you see the movie in 18 months' time and see that, in fact, every single one is real.

    Tatooine environment - residential places, market area. Rocket of some sort in the open area.
    Ice planet, probably Hoth. A ship crashed into it.
    Tree dwelling, could be one of several places.
    Imperial set.
    Falcon set.

    Choose to disbelieve them, your loss. You won't get any sources because no one on the lot is stupid enough to risk taking photos of the above.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Sun May 25 2014 14:27:02

    Sure, you're right about it being speculation.

    But I'm curious to add information and see how much we can piece together. The crashed ship on "Hoth", the rocket on the Tatooine set, the basic tree dwelling habitat, the Imperial set which is pristine, not run down.

    I remember how much fun this was in the '80s, and we didn't have social media then...

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Sun May 25 2014 13:58:10

    Well, at this point, I have no idea why Hoth. It could very well be an entirely different ice planet, so who knows. All I know is there's a ship crashed in it.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Sun May 25 2014 13:05:07

    It still isn't lazy, no matter which way you put it. Just because it already exists isn't lazy, as everything still has to be designed and created from scratch, albeit adhering to an established aesthetic. That isn't lazy.

    How do we know it's relevant? Because it's relevant in the movies we already have. It's very relevant to Luke, who, along with at least one of his children, will appear in the new movie. So, it's still relevant.

    It's highly likely there will be a Jedi/Sith rupture in the story, and given that there is a huge Imperial set built at Pinewood, highly likely remnants of the Empire still exist.

    For what it's worth, you're also going to see Hoth again. And possibly Endor or Kashyyyk, though the tree dwelling set could easily be on Yavin IV, so who knows.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Sun May 25 2014 03:18:48

    It's Tatooine. JJ Abrams has said it himself. Several people on the boards work at Pinewood and have seen the outdoor Tatooine set.

    Oh, and seeing as it's the pivotal planet in the entire series, why the hell would they create another planet that looks the same?

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Thu May 22 2014 06:30:04

    It's not really a secret, it's widely reported there will be scenes on Tatooine and there's a big outdoor set built at Pinewood.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Thu May 22 2014 05:24:43

    The outdoor Tatooine set, which is easy to see, the Hoth set (indoor)... I assumed it's Hoth, being a fan favourite rather than some other generic ice planet but of course it could be just that. Also a very big Imperial set. Not sure what it is going to be, but it was HUGE. A tree-dwelling - I hope to god it's not Endor, possibly it's Kashyyyyyyyk. Oddly I didn't manage to see the Falcon set, which I would've loved to see.

    Mr_Ghostface_Lives » Thu May 22 2014 04:47:12

    It cracks me up that the AVCO signs are everywhere in place of "Star Wars" and yet they're in the same font, just like Blue Harvest was. Not sure what the point of a code name is if it doesn't conceal anything...

    But the sets are cracking. I've seen four different ones, and there's barely a blue or green screen to be seen (apart from a massive one at the back of the outdoor Tattooine set).

    Anyone else been who dare share any info?
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  17. SaintKenobi1322

    SaintKenobi1322 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jul 17, 2013
    If we had any indication at all that Lor San Tekka was watching over her from afar -- like Obi-Wan did Luke -- I would buy it, but I just cannot get my head around Luke dropping his daughter off with Unkar, or leaving her with someone who would. If we meet Rey and she is being watched over by Lor San Tekka -- who is on the same planet, mind you -- I would be all-but convinced.

    The galaxy is huge place. I just cannot see Luke Skywalker leaving Rey in the same kind of situation (worse even, because at least he had family that loved him) -- a backwater, desolate world, that he grew up in and hated so badly.

    And lastly, again, just speculating, if Luke were to marry and have a child, he surely must realize that one day a new Dark Side-based threat would rise. Would he really be so short-sighted as to a. not think of what that would mean for his family and b. not have a better plan?
    Darth Caliban and Jedi Jessy like this.
  18. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

    Feb 28, 2016
    And we don't know when Luke and Leia find out about Snoke. If he was a "friend", it explain why Leia don't think about him in Bloodline (maybe Leia and Luke feels something in Ben but don't know who/what is and they think Ben is "safe" now in his training).

    And if Luke wanted to protect his family, sending his wife and a little kid alone on a junk planet is not the best idea. Keep them with him, the last jedi, is better.
    Darth Caliban and JediLight like this.
  19. B99

    B99 Force Ghost star 6

    Nov 10, 2014
  20. littlepadawan91

    littlepadawan91 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jan 11, 2016
    Copying and pasting from the parentage thread

    Yes, that passage stuck out like a sore thumb. I've been working with the idea that Rey was sold to Unkar as a slave for a while now and Bloodline has more interesting info. For those who haven't read it, here's what we find out: there's a cartel run by a fellow named Rinnrivin Di whose money finances a group of warriors in the Outer Rims, which the book suggests to be the embryo of the First Order. Leia & co. find out that Rinnrivin's cartel became powerful 7 to 10 years before the events of the book. That's roughly 13 to 16 years before TFA, around the same time of Rey's abandonment. It might be reaching to connect the two, but it's pretty much the only significant event we know that can be chronologically linked to her abandonment.

    Unkar doesn't deal with money though. At least I don't think so. He trades food for parts and he owns ships. It makes more sense if Rey was traded by the cartel for a bombass ship that could get their shady business going.

    As a sidenote (?), there's a passage in Aftermath informing us that Han and Chewie were looking into criminal organizations which the last remanescents of the Empire were leaning on. I think it's all connected:

    Satipo and JediLight like this.
  21. Rodie

    Rodie Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Apr 16, 2014

    I don't know. Great points. It's hard to believe. All of it. But then, it's difficult to really wrap my head around a heartbroken Luke disappearing alone for 5-7 full years prior to TFA, all the while the FO rises, his nephew and student falls deeper to the dark side and his sister and best friend split apart. . . All of it is heartbreaking. I would have loved to have gotten a TFA where Lor was one of Luke's elder students (discovered as FS post-ROTJ) and the lone survivor of the academy massacre tasked by Luke with looking after Rey from a distance just like Obi-Wan did while Luke searched for the first Temple and a way to defeat Snoke...and Luke had given Lor the map to use when the time was right, etc. But that's not what we got, so I don't know what's happening ha.
    ChildOfWinds likes this.
  22. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Jun 12, 2011
    Yeah, now there's absolutely no chance for an happy reunion like RotJ. [face_sigh]
    ChildOfWinds likes this.
  23. DarthIshyZ

    DarthIshyZ Chosen One star 8

    Jan 8, 2005
    Not to minimize your emotions, aren't there any number of other scenarios that could create happy circumstances? Relative of OB1, for instance.
  24. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 5

    Jun 12, 2011
    Seems quite a bit of a stretch if you ask me, but sure we could have a Leia and Luke reunion but it won't be the same with Han dead. But, it will still be better than nothing I guess.
  25. MotherNature's SilverSeed

    MotherNature's SilverSeed Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Feb 4, 2013
    This is an opinion.

    This is an opinion.

    Many, many scientists, philosophers, etc. would argue that the individual's life experience and environment have a far more profound effect on one's identity.

    Sure, this is indeed a fact (though once this is realized, the obvious question "to what extent?" is raised), but circumstances and environment are also both history and identity.

    Many, many scientists, philosophers, etc. argue that genes play a significantly less prominent role in one's identity and their true nature than their environment. (It's probably obvious, but I guess I'll point out that this would not be a fun debate in which to engage, before anyone gets any big ideas.)

    As I noted already in a post (above), exploring the answer to this question may in fact inhibit the story group from telling as compelling and meaningful a story as they intend to. To focus on her parents can be a waste of time if it's immaterial to the story, and it may effectively undermine a fundamental theme of the story of which the unknown nature of Rey's past is an element.

    This question is fine, but if the answer to it is not relevant to this story, it shouldn't be explored.

    If the answer is important to the story, yeah--they'll explore it.

    Some of this is so plain I can't believe I'm typing it out.

    Once again, this is so totally not the case.

    To plant one's flag on such dull and predictable story elements--to draw otherwise arbitrary lines-that-shall-not-be-crossed--is to surrender oneself to an extremely narrow-minded and, frankly, old-fashioned ideal.

    I mean, I'm trying pretty hard but for the life of me I can't think of a more disappointing outcome for Episodes VIII and IX than this unimaginative, purely conventional paint-by-numbers story many on here demand.
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