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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST The Even More Magniloquent New Rumor Intellectual Thread of Seriousness for Sophisticated Discourse

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by A Chorus of Disapproval , Dec 15, 2015.

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  1. Evetssteve10

    Evetssteve10 Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 21, 2015

    I think you took that a weeeeee bit too literally. I'm talking about him taking her under his wing. A mentor, a surrogate father.


    I don't think Luke is going to be signing any legal documents in episode VIII.


    I think one of the messages Luke will give to Rey, if he isn't her father, or maybe even if he is this: Rey certainly doesn't NEED a mom or dad at this point, she's an adult - at this point she probably is more interested in knowing where she came from and why they left her more than anything. And Luke of all people can attest to her that it doesn't matter where or who you come from, you forge your own path and you decide who you are. ( even if that isn't 100% true )
     
  2. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    Hahahahahaha. Me? I'm just hoping 4 Rey-walker 2 make up 4 all the sins of the past.
     
  3. WookieeRage

    WookieeRage Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2016
    Using shortcuts in your sentence construction completely takes away all seriousness in that post, I'm typing on a freaking tablet.
     
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  4. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015


    So using numbers as words cheapens my sentence?
     
  5. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 14, 2015
    Yes.
     
  6. RobbyV

    RobbyV Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 22, 2015

    Yeah, I think you're onto something about the light saber. In the Visual Dictionary it says someone found it in Bespin, which I couldn't reconcile with Luke's hand still attached to it floating in space. Perhaps they did scrap their original "path of the saber" part of the story in favor of a simpler one (which I think they should tell later).

    There is one part of the vision I do have trouble figuring out though -- why are the dents and holes on Kylo's helmet on the wrong side?
     
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  7. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    Time is precious so I take short cuts. Like going thru parking lots avoiding reds!
     
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  8. Evetssteve10

    Evetssteve10 Jedi Knight star 4

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    Sep 21, 2015

    This is just an aside and not a direct response to your preference really but I always find it weird when people have a desire of the plot to go ways that they think it should in their head rather than just having the story told to me. And that in itself is a personal preference, but I dunno that's just interesting to you - I guess it's just different strokes for different folks kinda thing. I don't really care what ends up happening in stories as long as it's emotionally satisfying or just well done in general.
     
  9. ChildOfWinds

    ChildOfWinds Chosen One star 6

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    Apr 7, 2001
    At this point, Luke has never even met Finn, and just met Rey. So, at the moment, Luke is no one to them, and they are no one to him. Perhaps they will be close someday, but we don't know that right now. In fact, if one of the rumors is true, there will be a rift between Luke and Rey. If they aren't father and daughter, there may never be a strong connection between them, even if Luke does pass his knowledge on to her.

    Luke hasn't seen his sister in about six or seven years, and from bloodlines, they don't seem to have spent much time together even before Luke left.

    Luke's life's work, his Jedi order has already been wiped out, hence why I said Luke was left with absolutely nothing. I truly hope that Luke will get to rebuild his Jedi order in the future, but I very much fear that once Luke has trained Rey, that the filmmakers will consider him unnecessary, and may very well kill him off so that he doesn't stand in Rey's way. Heaven forbid that Luke should accomplish anything when they can have Rey do everything! I am afraid that Rey, and not Luke will get the credit for restoring the Jedi order. The Jedi legacy will be hers and not Luke's.

    As for helping the resistance rebuild the Galaxy, in the first place, if Luke wouldn't have left, the first order may never have become so powerful or so bold. Maybe a lot of the death and destruction could have been avoided. That's another thing that the filmmakers took away from Luke: his basic character. The Luke of the OT wouldn't have run off like a coward when his order was destroyed. He would have stayed to help defend the Galaxy from the first order and from Snoke and kylo. But I don't think that rebuilding the galaxy was ever Luke's job. He's not a politician or an architect or a builder. Training Jedi is a pretty time-consuming job.

    I have always admitted to being a Luke fan. But Rey being Luke's daughter is about more than doing right by Luke. It's about what makes for a good story. Having Rey be Luke's fits well in a " generational" story. The PT was about Anakin skywalker. The OT was about Luke skywalker. It works well to have the ST be about Rey skywalker. If Rey is just a random character, there is a real disconnect between the prior two trilogies and this one. If we weren't going to get a skywalker protagonist anyway, why not just jump ahead a hundred years and not impact and destroy the lives and legacies of Luke, Han, and Leia to tell their story????

    And, if Rey isn't a skywalker, we're left with just evil, emo kylo as the only legacy character. What a terrible way to end the skywalker saga!! And, I hate the idea that random Rey, the new, New Hope has to set things right because the skywalker family and especially the old New Hope, Luke, failed at everything and ended up being just a messed up, doomed family of losers that needed to have an outsider fix things that they weren't capable of doing themselves. Do you consider that to be a good and satisfying story? I don't!

    Then, there is the fact that TFA hinted very strongly that Rey was Luke's kid. People of all ages left the theater feeling that way. Most people on these boards, even robbyv thought Rey was Luke's daughter after seeing the film. It's only because of comments made by the filmmakers and Pablo afterwards that many people started to change their minds. In my opinion, the film should speak for itself. We shouldn't need outside sources to figure out the story. And, if Rey was truly meant to be random, we should have been told that from the beginning. She should have been introduced not as someone who was left on jakku by someone else, but as a child who was born on jakku but whose parents had been killed in some tragedy. Her name shouldn't be a secret either, and Luke's life didn't need to be such a mystery. If Rey is random, very deliberate misdirection was done just to trick the audience, and say, " gottcha!" That's not satisfying at all.

    Plus, if Rey is random, there will never be the possibility of a skywalker character in the future once Luke and Leia are gone. I can't believe that Luke and Disney would want to burn that bridge and never be able to use that iconic name / bloodline again. ( and I certainly hope that evil, tantrum-throwing kylo never has any kids. We've already gone that route with Anakin. And kylo really irritates me. I don't want to see a redemption arc for him.)
     
  10. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015


    Personally I have no problems with Rey Adopted or Rey Random if only she had say 2 or 3 things in common with the Skywalkers. But since 90% of her character is based on call backs of Luke or Anakin in they way she lives, fights, facial expressions, cam angles, mannerisms, etc, etc.......I will feel "ripped off" if she is not a Skywalker.
     
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  11. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 14, 2015
    Facial expressions and mannerisms? Really? Ridley looks, sounds and acts nothing like Hamill, IMO. Aside from a similar level of eagerness.
     
  12. jedijax

    jedijax Force Ghost star 6

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    May 2, 2013
    For some, hoping/thinking that Rey is Luke's daughter is about Luke's character, yes. Nothing wrong with that. For others, it is certainly about storytelling based on the clues from TFA. Nothing wrong with that either. No sense in clumping all "Reywalkers" in the same boat. I suppose that is the same for the Rey-ndoms as well. Not all have the same intentions for their thoughts and opinions.

    And Thrawn082 you are correct in that much of what was shown about Rey centered on some sort of mysterious connection to the Skywalker family. Great point! There's NO denying that.

    There are plenty of people who want Rey to be a Skywalker but claim that they just don't see it happening. I call baloney. Too buying into all the crap and rumors that are not, as of yet, substantiated.
     
  13. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015

    Just how Luke looks nothing like Leia yet there siblings?
     
  14. WookieeRage

    WookieeRage Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 3, 2016
    Cue Luke and Rey comparison picture...
     
  15. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    So if genetic material creates institutions, does that mean we can have a baby build us a court house?


    JabbatheHumanBeing -- please shoot me in the DNA. Apparently, it's doing my thinking for me. ;)
     
  16. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    I'm not exactly certain why you've addressed my post since your response gives the impression on a overall general misinterpretation of my post, but I'll attempt to clarify:
    1. Strictly speaking there is no life without genetic material, thus no one to pass anything on to. Humans must first regenerate if there is to be families, mentors, guides and teachers. That's all that was meant.

    2. Nature vs nurture has been argued by psychologists ad infinitum with no resounding conclusion. There is ongoing interplay between the two throughout life. One no more dominant that the other. As Machiavelli observed: virtue and fortune.

    3. I'm not sure what a paint by numbers story is. I would suggest that simply ignoring Rey's backstory when she hasn't even a hint of a surname would be the worst kind of storytelling imaginable. If they'd given a last name I might be inclined to agree, but since it's been withheld my "paint by numbers" assumption concludes a reason. Yes, I'm drawing a line in the sand. We'd better learn her surname and a bit about here nature.

    Apparently there are AI posters in here.
     
  17. JabbatheHumanBeing

    JabbatheHumanBeing Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jul 14, 2015
    This is simply not true. The evidence is clear that "nurture" is a far greater factor in determining a person's character. One of the most compelling cases revolve around "feral children," who were raised by animals (often wolves, and often in Siberia...). Those children who were rescued from that existence basically...acted like wolves. So "nurture" is absolutely critical in determining the character of a human being, while nature is much less so. There's little to no debate about that among reputable psychologists.

    Plus, by "nature" psychologists aren't talking about genetic heritage. They're talking about the chemical makeup of one's brain at birth (which does indeed have an impact on personality). This doesn't mean a Smith is born with a particularly Smithy brain, while a Robertson's brain is super Robertsony. It's just that people are born with different brains.
     
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  18. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    I don't want to pile on Immortiss here since he's already standing in a fairly deep hole (I can't even see his head at this point) and I know he's a history major and I can forgive folks for perceiving the world through the ideology of their chosen discipline (rather than their DNA), but I must point out the irony of this conversation and the idea that a fictional character has genetic material that can and MUST be passed on to another fictional character.

    I have read a lot of books in my time, and seen quite a few movies and even cartoons, and I have yet to find any DNA stuck to the pages (except for perhaps Sports Illustrated's swimsuit issue), movie screen or camera lens.

    I suggest we end this debate before the DNA of the mods begins speaking to us...
     
  19. Immortiss

    Immortiss Force Ghost star 5

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    Mar 10, 2013
    Simply stating your views with an air of authority doesn't make them true, Jabba. Nature plays as vital a role as nurture in human growth and development, even though psychologists believe the old dichotomy insufficient due to the constant interplay of the two. And, yes, it does relate to genetics. Your thinking of personality disorders, which are marginally relevant to the debate. Yes, people are born with different brains, or, in the scarecrow's case...
     
  20. La Calavera

    La Calavera Force Ghost star 4

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    Sep 2, 2015
    Rey was raised by sand in an hostile and isolated world, and became a morally grounded, compassionate and kind person. Because.

    Kylo was raised by a loving family and trained by Luke Skywalker and became a mass-murderer psycho because "he has too much Vader in him".

    So, nature vs nurture.

    Yeah.

    I think Star Wars cares (and always cared) more about genes than about one's background. So it's not a surprise that fans are putting extra importance on genetic material.
     
  21. MotherNature's SilverSeed

    MotherNature's SilverSeed Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 4, 2013
    And the irony isn't lost on us.



    He's not thinking of personality disorders.

    However, I must say that this once calm and marginally stimulating discussion has several trademarks typical of those threads that choose the path less traveled by (and were all the worse for it).



    I'm forced to admit...you make a good point.
     
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  22. MotherNature's SilverSeed

    MotherNature's SilverSeed Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 4, 2013
  23. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 15, 2015
    Alas I can't post pics.
     
  24. Dra---

    Dra--- Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 30, 2012
    Wait, Luke and Kylo both recieved their genetic material from Anakin Skywalker and the Force, so why is one good and one bad?

    It can't be the genes.

    Anakin was raised a slave. Became bad (then good).

    Luke was raised in a family environment. Became good.

    Kylo was raised by good people who apparently weren't around much. Became bad.

    Seems like environment plays a pretty large role.

    As for Rey., we'd need to know more about how she was raised on Jakku, but she did have parents prior to being left there. So there was probably some nurturing from the beginning.

    Now all of this conversation is absurd of course because as I pointed out above, fictional characters don't actually have DNA, and how they act and why is all about the kind of story the author wants to tell.

    And even if Lucas was all about genes and only genes, that doesn't mean the new writers are forever bound to an ideology they disagree with.
     
  25. Biel Ductavis

    Biel Ductavis Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 17, 2015
    No, we would have more. Remember the times when the Prequels were made.
     
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