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ST The Even More Magniloquent New Rumor Intellectual Thread of Seriousness for Sophisticated Discourse

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by A Chorus of Disapproval , Dec 15, 2015.

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  1. Kthru12

    Kthru12 Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 4, 2016
    "Return of the Jedi" was also a plot point, but nobody cared about giving that away before the movie was released.

    And if Luke decides that Rey will be the last jedi he ever trains, the last jedi the galaxy ever sees, would that really be a shocker? Every jedi order ends the same way: With one student going bad, slaughtering everyone else, and wreaking havoc across the galaxy. Is Disney/Star Wars just going to continue that cycle ad infinitum? Doesn't it make sense for Luke and Rey to see that pattern and resolve to break it?

    Maybe Luke trusts Rey to kill Kylo Ren and not to fall to the Dark side. But it makes perfect sense to me that neither he nor Rey would want to risk training any more jedi after that.
     
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  2. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    This. I'm not too concerned about any of this either way, but I do think that Johnson either knew what he was doing, or should have known. If it was a joke, OK, fine. But despite what he and some others have been saying, those two words are not identical in how they operate in English from a semantics perspective. "Last" can also mean "most recent". "Final" does not convey that. And the word "finality" carries much more strength and... well, finality. As in, not something that is at all likely to be continued after this point. Anyway... :-B
     
  3. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
  4. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Care to expand on that?
     
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  5. Ryanpaulstewart

    Ryanpaulstewart Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 13, 2016

    I think RJ was simply being playful/mischievous and accidentally synonym'd himself into an unintended spoiler-ific tweet.
     
  6. sls062286

    sls062286 Jedi Master star 4

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    May 10, 2016
    He likely was making a quick joke and didnt stop to think a bunch of fans were going to freak out about his word choice.
     
  7. nightangel

    nightangel Force Ghost star 6

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    Oct 31, 2014
    not happy about the 'finality' thing you mentioned, but I fear you are right. :(
     
  8. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    OK, thanks. Well, like I also said a couple times to you yesterday, even if it's the end of the Jedi being called "Jedi", that does NOT necessarily mean the death of Luke or anything even necessarily bad. Think of it like this... Luke could be the driving force behind a needed evolution from "Jedi" to whatever the new equivalent of "new Jedi" is called.
     
  9. Adept

    Adept Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 4, 2006
    It means the death of Luke. Go into the film believing that and you'll either be ready for it if it happens or pleasantly surprised if it doesn't.
     
  10. EHT

    EHT Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 13, 2007
    Not necessarily. But I'm fine either way... and above, I'm trying to help people stay positive. :)
     
  11. afrojedi

    afrojedi Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 23, 2015
    Probably been mentioned before, but they've been hinting at this in Rebels big time. Pretty much trying to knock people over the head with the fact that the Jedi and Sith have a somewhat limited view of the force. You then open the new trilogy without the Sith or any new Jedi...
     
  12. jofos

    jofos Jedi Knight star 2

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    Apr 25, 2015
    Okay I'll make this simple. You are at a red light and you are the last car in line. Your car is the final one in that line. The light turns green and everybody goes and there is no more line. The light turns red and a new line starts and there will be another last car in line.
     
  13. Adept

    Adept Force Ghost star 4

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    Mar 4, 2006
    After everything that's happened on this forum...I applaud your determination for taking on a hopeless fight....but at this point you might as well hang this above the forums:

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    No, you were 100% right. My bad!

    I just realised this was meant for SLD, but in general my crow consumption still applies (though in my defence I agree with EHT about the slightly different connotation - but even RJ says both words have more than one connotation). Anyway, what was that about overthinking?
     
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  15. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 26, 2014
    Good point. That would then open up ways to explore the origins of the Jedi and Sith, what came before them, what was around at the same time as them, and what could take the place of them going forward.
     
  16. jaqen

    jaqen Chosen One star 5

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    Jul 22, 2004
    Why is crow being served? This topic existed long before that RJ tweet and even his follow up ones don't negate speculation of the Jedi, as we know them, ending.
     
  17. The PiedPiper of Alderaan

    The PiedPiper of Alderaan Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2015
    the discussion about the end or not of the Jedi is valid. It's just that RJs tweet cant be used as a clue to this specific topic since he was only being playful and didnt mean to hint at anything. Doesnt mean we cant speculate. But his "final jedi" reply is just a quick joke. Nothing to deduce from it.
     
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  18. starocean90

    starocean90 Chosen One star 8

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    Feb 19, 2014
    all this talk of balance make it seem like Yoda or Qui Gon or Kenobi never had any balance. Just because one doesn't use the darkside doesn't mean they aren't balanced. Kenobi even used the darkside in I and it almost got him killed. The darkside has been stated time and again to corrupt people and one has to pay a price for using it. And trying to find balance is also something that can go completely wrong with the darkside overtaking one and fully consuming them. Not everyone should use it. In over thousands of generations how many Jedi were really corrupted? (2 of those were corrupted by Palpatine.) From 10 000 in the PT and all the ones who died beforehand? Not many. Just because the Jedi fell because of Palapatine's machinations doesn't mean that their methods were wrong or ineffective.
     
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  19. Ubraniff Zalkaz

    Ubraniff Zalkaz Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Feb 26, 2014
    And for the record, I love Luke and the Jedi. I've always figured this trilogy would be a lot about rebuilding the Jedi order or some order. We've seen what happened to old Jedi order in the PT and we've heard about what happened to Luke's Jedi order, and Snoke is worried about "new" Jedi rising. I take that as Snoke knows Luke has a new game plan and I think that's what will come next. Will they be called Jedi or something else? I don't know or really care. I just care about Luke starting a lasting Force order that begins to heal the galaxy and deal with future threats.
     
  20. starocean90

    starocean90 Chosen One star 8

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    Feb 19, 2014
    until said New Order gets destroyed yet again.:p
     
  21. Mungo Baobab

    Mungo Baobab Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Dec 2, 2014
    The issue with balance is - and where I think Pablo's comments about the dark side having a cost that must be paid have been misunderstood - is that the dark side is a natural part of the Force. It exists within all life, and each being, just as much as the light side does. It's vital to the life cycle of the universe. The PT Jedi confused the natural darkness that existed within themselves with the Sith's use of it. This is key. You can accept and recognise your own dark side, and indeed you would have to in order to achieve balance, but to actually focus upon the darkness in order to use the Force as the Sith do leads one to corruption, and this is where a cost must be paid. I think that for this reason, we could never see the often speculated 'grey Jedi' who switch between use of the light and dark sides at will.

    But a culture like the Jedi of the PT, who reject any emotional ties in order to avoid confronting their own dark sides really can't be considered balanced in either the Jungian sense, or for example, the Middle Way of Buddhism.
     
  22. Satipo

    Satipo Force Ghost star 7

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    Mar 29, 2014
    Exactly this. Totally suppressing the natural darkness is not true balance.
     
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  23. AhsokaSolo

    AhsokaSolo Force Ghost star 7

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    Dec 23, 2015
    Yes people have been speculating about LF taking the Jedi out of SW for a long time, but that is just evidence that people see what they want in these tweets. RJ didn't tweet a spoiler. The notion the a director would tweet a major spoiler 9 months before the release of his movie is pretty absurd anyway, but people are so quick to want to believe their headcanon that people actually assume that is happening.

    I might be a serious skeptic, to say the least, that LF plans to replace Jedi with some other force wielding heroes called Gedi or whatever, but I will admit that maybe that is the direction they're going. If it is, though, that is serious business, with not just story implications but serious marketing implications, and as such it would be dealt with carefully. It wouldn't be something dealt with on twitter.

    If RJ wanted the title to communicate something like that, he could have called it, "the end of the Jedi" or something that says, "hey guys, we're seriously killing off all Jedi." If instead, he chose a title that makes it ambiguous (as he did), it defies any business or artistic logic that Twitter would be the place to clarify his work of fiction before it's even released.
     
  24. oncafar

    oncafar Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 10, 2017
    the tweet just said 'the last jedi' all over again. that's it. it iow contributed no new info. at least to me, it didn't prompt any thinking i didn't have already. like oooh, he said final instead of last. whatever!

    to me the signs are actually in the movie, sw rebels, tcw. something may very well be changing. though as i said before, i don't know if i care what they are *called* and jedi is a fine word.
     
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  25. Jedi Jessy

    Jedi Jessy Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 28, 2016
    Luke will be the last jedi. He looked at what happened to his students and decided to live with ewoks. Then they will destroy the First Order
    [​IMG]
     
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