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The eventual release of the Prequel Trilogy on 4k Blu Ray...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Strilo , Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Depends on the remastering process being used and the technology at the time. TPM on DVD in 2001 was distinctly inferior to the current DVD/BD not because of the source material but because of the technology to present it on disc including on DVD not being able to show the complete image.

    https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=123195

    Then other things happen that alter the presentation that can be positive or negative depending on what you like from DNR application which takes the grain of film down to color application which creates different viewing. TPM's DVD had a pink tint. AOTC gained a blue tint.

    Superior resolution is only one aspect.
     
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  2. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    That was actually due to the source material, not (just) the technology. The 2001 DVD of TPM was sourced from the interpositive, not from the negative or the film-out. So, besides the generation loss, there's another layer of grain that is not meant to be there, which affects the clarity and quality of the picture. The zoomed in happened due to the conscious choice to avoid edge artifacts from the interpositive.

    For the Blu-ray release (and recent DVD releases sourced from it), beside the extensive restoration, they have created a proper digital intermediate, digitally color-corrected, from the film-out. So not only do you get more picture, but you also get a 'purer' version of the movie.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  3. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    I hope what you are saying is true, Alexrd.
     
  4. Sab Jo

    Sab Jo Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2013
    Again, I know this has been said before but it bears repeating: Most 4K movies aren't really 4K. Here's a little more detail on that:

    Up into the 1990's, films were edited optically, meaning all the titles, special effects and editing were done the old fashioned way, a complete film to film pipeline. Even when they did do some computer effects, they were transferred to film and then added in optically. So these films can be scanned as-is in 4K.

    In the late '90s they started scanning the original negative into computers and then doing all the editing and effects digitally. So before the editing even started, the resolution was maxed out at 2K. So even though there's a bunch of movies from then til now that were filmed in 35mm or higher film stock, they will never get a true 4K version as this would call for editing them from scratch. Because 2K was the industry standard, the vast majority of films from the past 20 years share this in common, the prequels being no exception. Even today, ALL animated films are rendered in 2K, there's just not enough time or computing power. Even the CG scenes in true 4K live action movies are rendered in 2K. Some movies blockbuster movies even currently are finished in 2K end to end, such as most of the Marvel films. Like other films however, they will benefit from Ultra-HD Blu-ray by being presented in HDR, as well as better compression.

    Which gets me to thinking: The OT special editions I'm sure weren't edited optically, so even though they made a '4K master' of them, they may max out at 2K, right? I even heard that the crude (by today's standards) CGI scenes added in were only rendered in 720p due to limitations at the time.
     
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  5. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Have a couple of questions, you seem to know stuff! In terms of picture quality, sharpness, and enjoyability, if one has a 4K tv, can you help on the following 3 questions:

    1. Question, so should one buy the Blu-ray version of the Prequels?
    2. Should you buy the Blu-ray version of the OT?

    3. Should one wait for the 4K Blu ray release of all Star Wars films (Episodes 1 to 9 and Rogue One)?

    Assuming one for instance has the Prequels on DVD and special edition DVD of the OT? Quality wise and (without the Nooo in Episode VI wise)?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
  6. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Of course, unless you're planning to wait for the eventual 4K releases and the extras are not that important to you.

    Are you willing to wait?

    The 'No!' is in the Blu-ray release of ROTJ and will be in all future releases. If you're asking if it's worth to make the jump from DVD to BD, then yes. It is. That goes for most movies too, not just Star Wars.
     
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  7. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    YES - for most eyes - The Star Wars films have never looked better on home video than they do on the newest BluRays. It could be five years or longer before we see 1 to 6 on 4K. Now rumor has it that George Lucas made one last round of changes to the movies before stepping away. We'll see if that is true.

    I'm in no rush to upgrade my TV and Audio for 4K. BluRay looks really great as is. The difference from DVD to BluRay is something you'll see instantly. Even with HDR I find it hard to believe the difference between BluRay and 4K is the same huge gap.

    More than 4K - I still want to see Episodes 2 and 3 in 3D. Preferably in a theater and not at home on disc. And when will 4K be able to do 3D?
     
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  8. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Awesome. So I mean if thus far I've been watching Star Wars Special Edition on DVD, will I see a super improvement moving to Blu Ray?

    As in I was thinking of going for Episodes 1 to 3 on Blu Ray, but I'm considering Episodes 4 to 6 also?

    As for the "Nooo", haha I think that's the only change I'm not sure about. I actually think the other edits work really well. No way for a silent Vader classic moment then?

    Yes agreed, I guess by the time Episode 9 is out, they may well release a 4K version of the whole thing, or we'll see what format is out by then.

    See at the moment I have Star Wars on DVD (and also a collection on VHS haha!). So right now, I'm not sure about buying the 4K blu ray versions. But what about just Blu ray?

    Sorry it's confusing. Just wondering whether to buy the special edition on Blu Ray for all the movies, PT and OT, and possibly ST?

    Good point! I mean at the moment I'm watching my special edition Star Wars on DVD for the OT and the PT.

    I'm wondering then what to do. Buy the Blu ray version of Star Wars PT and the OT?

    At the moment, I'm not sure about 4K blu rays, which I think TLJ is being released on.

    Hm interested to see George's last version. I actually think the edits are good and make it cohesive. But I'm not up for the "Nooo" in ROTJ haha. I'm not sure about whether to buy Blu Ray or wait for the 4K Blu ray discs?

    So I am wondering (as Yoda says), should I move from DVD Special Editions to a Blu Ray Star Wars collection? Frankly even the DVD version looks epic on a 4K TV!
     
  9. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    I do recommend buying the saga Blu-ray boxset, yes, specially if you have a TV that takes advantage of it. It is a big improvement over the DVD, although I'd say the more drastic move was the jump from VHS/LaserDisc to DVD since (besides the general advantages of the format) the OT received a major restoration at the time. What you'll see in the Blu-ray is the same restored master done for the DVD release but with the improved picture quality and higher resolution that the Blu-ray provides (and the new changes as well, of course).

    Only TPM received a restoration exclusive to the Blu-ray release (and recent DVD releases).
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  10. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    That's awesome! Yes I noticed the DVD's were great when I first watched them back in the day. I mean I have watched them on the newer 4K upscaling TV and the Special Edition boxsets of the OT and PT look phenomenal. And we're talking DVDs here.

    So would you say the Blu Ray versions of all 6 films (well all 8 by the end of this month), will look better than DVD then?

    I am wondering whether there will be a significant difference between Blu Ray and the 4K Blu ray format?
     
  11. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    There is a huge difference between Blu Ray and 4k. But you have to have a HUGE TV in order to see it. Anything under 60" is not worth it at all, IMHO. My roommate has a 70" 4K TV and I can notice a difference easily. Considering that we all know that we'll end up with 4k eventually, I always start buying the new discs when they come out. I don't buy Blu Ray at all anymore, certainly not for the big big films. Why plunk down money now for Blu Ray, which is 12+ years old, when they are releasing the next gen format now. I personally pre-ordered TLJ on 4k Blu Ray.
     
  12. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    That's a given. The Blu-rays are worth getting, and by now you can get them for relatively cheap (at least the original six, I don't really care for the rest). Wether you rather wait for the 4K releases or not, is up to you. I don't see them releasing the original saga before the sequels are done, but then again, I've been wrong before.
     
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  13. DarthTalonx

    DarthTalonx Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2014
    That's a really great point. Yes I think I will go for the Blu-Ray edition! I was only concerned that they changed up the final edit of the Special Edition DVD's which I really enjoy. Quality wise (image sharpness, etc), Blu-rays would be the best out there until the 4K version right? I agree, it's probable that the Special Edition 4K version will come after the final sequel.

    Yes I too and not a massive fan of the ST so far. I am keen on Rogue One though, so may get that on Blu-ray to see the difference! I think 4K discs are a little expensive for the moment. To be honest, I wanted more Qui Gon style Jedi and a continuation of the saga (i.e. one saga of 9 films) in the ST, not really feeling that at the moment. It's a shame, the ST discs don't really sit on the same shelf as my boxset of the PT and OT and Rogue One.

    Blu-ray it is!
     
  14. Huttese 101

    Huttese 101 Sam Witwer Enthusiast star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Sorry for the late reply. I've seen Rogue One on Blu-Ray (which, as I'm sure you know, is ultimately from an 8K digital source--or at least I'm pretty sure it is) as well as Juno on standard-def DVD (probably from a 35mm source, idk) both upscaled (or should I say "upscaled") to 4K on a native 4K TV. I'm not positive about the dimensions of the TV, but I imagine it was around 50". It was my roommate's TV, not mine. I was sitting approximately ten feet away both times, and they looked fine. As you said, 4K really comes into its own when played on much larger screens or when viewed at closer distances, so maybe that's why I didn't notice gratuitous or distracting noise or artifacts. Although I wasn't looking either. But that's part of my first point. On a different 4K TV (also about 50") I played 480i video games, in native resolution and without de-interlacing, while seated much closer to the screen and it didn't look too cruddy either. Not to mention the Blu-Rays and DVDs I watched in native res on the same TV.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm not worried about fudging native resolution to look 4K because I haven't been disappointed so far, as long as my expectations aren't too high. I'm sure AOTC and ROTS will be at least passable with a professional 4K upconversion. And of course, even at 1080p resolution, IMO very old movies filmed on 35mm film, like The Wizard of Oz or Casablanca, look fuzzy or muddy for lack of a better word. I have a feeling the OT, and possibly even TPM, will look similar with a native 4K scan on modern TVs.
     
  15. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
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  16. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 18, 2013
    http://realorfake4k.com/my-product/rogue-one-a-star-wars-story/

    According to Real or Fake 4K it's
    • Shot in 6.5K
    • VFX Rendered in 2K
    • Digital Intermediate at 4K
     
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  17. Sab Jo

    Sab Jo Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 2, 2013
    I know they say that Ultra-HD Blu-ray doesn't support 3D, but the fact is it does. I can burn 4K 3D Blu-ray (only compatible on Ultra-HD players) on my computer at home. All it takes is having the 3D in half-height over/under format, which all 3D TVs are compatible with, and since all 3D films are 2K anyway, no resolution would be lost. However it would be seen in HDR (high dynamic range).
     
  18. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Is there any truth to 4K 3D on disc not happening because of the speed / capacity of HDMI cables? But new cables are on the way or already here that can accomadate the speed and amount data need for 4K 3D?

    It also seems 3D for TV is over and done with and 3D in theaters is not far behind. Maybe there is a choice to movie away from 3D and the jump to 4K is an excuse to leave it behind.
     
  19. Sab Jo

    Sab Jo Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2013
    No. Up to 4K at 60 frames per second is already supported, and two 4K streams of 24 frames per second each is still less than that.

    Sadly when it comes to TVs, yes. While no TV manufacturers have released 3D models for this year however, countless 3D projectors continue to be made. Almost all 3D movies continue to be released on Blu-ray 3D as well, the lone exception being Disney, who will often release 3D outside of the US only. For instance, I had to import The Last Jedi and Cars 3 from Europe.

    Not sure about this. 3D is still a huge draw overseas, and China is a huge market. They even got a 3D version of Creed (the Rocky spin-off) that was only very limited in the US. While demand is lower in the US, I think they'll continue to monetize the 3D versions of movies that exist anyway, and maximize profits by reducing the number of 3D screenings. I've seen this to be the case, because in recent years the 3D screenings have been packed because there are less of them.
     
  20. yodaman_reborn

    yodaman_reborn Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Honestly it seems like Disney mostly ignores the prequel era. People like JJ Abrams don’t even want to consider it as part of Star Wars canon. I just don’t know if they’re going to put any effort into making it 4K.
     
  21. ChillCaladbolg

    ChillCaladbolg Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2017
    This is just plainly not true. They’ve already made many prequel related stories, including the massive Rebels, which acts as a direct sequel to Clone Wars, a prequel era story. It features prequel era characters, clone troopers, battle droids, etc. There are also multiple canon comics and even novels that either directly utilize the prequel stories or take place in that era. Not to mention Battlefront II, which was heavily advertised and celebrated for including the prequel era.

    The films are very much considered canon and just as important as the original trilogy. They will absolutely receive the 4K treatment when the time comes. Lucasfilm will not ignore such a key part of their intellectual property just because of a vocal minority that continues to lessen as time goes on. It would be absolutely insane of them to do that. JJ Abrams has exactly nothing to do with those sorts of decisions.

    If you’ve noticed more of a focus on the original trilogy era, this has simply been to make up for the 10+ relatively recent years that the prequels were the face of Star Wars. The current face of Star Wars is the sequel trilogy, which is based more on the original trilogy, being a direct sequel to it. The approach makes sense in both of those senses.

    They will always utilize the prequel era, but at this moment, it isn’t relevant enough to be the priority. To be the face of the brand, over the films that are currently releasing. If, say, Rian Johnson’s upcoming trilogy were to take place in that era, then I think we’d see it shifted to the priority.

    As time goes on, we will begin to see a more even spread of non-movie content between the eras, but I believe they will lean a bit more towards whichever is currently most relevant to the films that are releasing. It just makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  22. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    Bail Organa popping up in RO (played by the same actor as the PT) and the mention of Darth Sidious by name in TLJ blow a great big hole in your (conspiracy) theory.
     
  23. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Not sure in what respect you mean because there is nothing that is ignoring the prequels. If anything the larger concern in the new trilogy has been ignoring the OT story. Not only are they all over the movies but everywhere else in Star Wars. The Last Jedi on the prequel front is utterly infused with them.

    At whatever point all the movies will be out in 4K in various forms (saga sets, trilogy sets and individually).
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
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  24. Sab Jo

    Sab Jo Jedi Master star 2

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    Jul 2, 2013
    Disney just got into the 4K game with TLJ, give them some time. They also like to give time between releases and milk things, so we'll definitely get 4K's of the PT etc. Of course it won't be in actual 4K, as in 2160p, but in HDR.
     
  25. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    I think for me, it's the fact that there are NO prequel era aliens or ship designs anywhere in the foreground or background of any of the Lucasfilm/Disney era. There should be a Dug in one of the Sequel Trilogy era cantina scenes. Or something like that. Tons of amazing design work to the Galaxy for the Prequels and it's a shame that work is not represented anywhere in the ST films.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018