main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

The eventual release of the Prequel Trilogy on 4k Blu Ray...

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Strilo , Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Well I watched AOTC in 4k last night, and I gotta say... it looks better than Blu Ray, but it does not look as good as TPM or the OT films. So it would seem there are limitations to transferring the digital image to 4k.
     
  2. KyleKartan

    KyleKartan Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2004
    Even if thats the case and Ep II and III dont look as ULTRA HD as the othe movies: they were the movies who made todays 4K movies possible. They made the ground for the digital age we live today where movies look as crisp and perfect as they do! Lucas revolutionized movie making with shooting Ep II and Ep III digital and remember how he was critized back then for not going the old way! (there was even a web doc of that topic during the Ep II production:
     
  3. icqfreak

    icqfreak Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 7, 1999
    Ironically both AOTC and ROTS were considered some of the best DVD's for visual quality at the time because of being filmed digitally (plus DVD's being only 480p).

    I'm guessing Lucas either didn't forsee 4K (and 8K for that matter) ever becoming a thing, or at least not becoming a thing for a long time.

    I'm guessing as upscaling algorithms continue to improve over time eventually upscaling those 2 movies won't look very different, if at all, from those shot on film.
     
    SlashMan likes this.
  4. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    I'm sure he foresaw it. Whatever else you may say about him, Lucas has always been very tuned-in to technology trends. He obviously just didn't see it as a dealbreaker.

    There's nothing inherently inferior about 2K compared to 4K or 8K, any more than there's anything inherently inferior about 16 mm compared to 35 mm or 70 mm. It's just a format choice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
    Triad Moons likes this.
  5. Arch Stanton

    Arch Stanton Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2014
    Well, apart from the resolution loss lol. It's pretty much a miracle Clones was even shot on those primitive cameras - how they managed to do the miniature work & chroma keying with such limited colour depth especially.
     
  6. Samnz

    Samnz Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    You have to remember that George didn't necessarily (or primarily) shoot on digital cameras because he felt it was superior technology, but because he was also (or mainly) considering that it made the shooting itself a lot more confortable for him. Even back in 2002, they always stressed they were working in a digital environment anyway and George loved that he could instantly review the scenes he had just shot on the set on his plasma screens. That was the advantage Lucas looked for and he always acknowledged that it might not work for others. Lucas was always looking to make things easier for the filmmaker, particularly because he experienced very cumbersome ways of filming in his young age.

    Lucas never really participated in the debate on which delivers better picture or anything. He probably doesn't even care that much, because despite everything that is said about him, Lucas has never been that fussed over technical perfection.
     
    Triad Moons, Tonyg, SlashMan and 3 others like this.
  7. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Yet no one argues that George was a fool for shooting the original movies on 35 mm rather than 70 mm.

    Resolution isn't everything. I'd argue that once you hit 2K, resolution has certainly ceased to be an issue, and anything above that is just a nice bonus. At that point, the choice is determined by what makes the most sense for the filmmaker's needs. The maximum resolution that can be achieved on future home video releases is just one consideration out of many, and not necessarily one of the most important ones.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  8. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    But even the resolution for in theater viewing is a consideration. And by today's standards, AOTC and ROTS won't look as good on the big screen. On 4k projectors in theaters, films shot IN 4K can show pixels if you like to sit closer to the screen. I can't imagine what AOTC would look like in that context in theaters.
     
  9. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    They'll look fine. 2K is a perfectly adequate resolution. If you can show a 16 mm film in a theater, you can show a 2K film.
     
  10. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    I didn't say they wouldn't look adequate. I said they wouldn't look as good as today's standards.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  11. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    What does "today's standards" mean? Do you think black-and-white films "wouldn't look as good as today's standards"?
     
  12. obi-arin-kenobi

    obi-arin-kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 10, 2005
    I think standards have gone down. Theres nothing worse imo than modern color grading and fake lighting.
     
    StampidHD280pro likes this.
  13. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Supposedly AOTC looked really good blown up on IMAX screens during that re-release in the second half of 2002.
    I do remember AOTC looking excellent on the largest screen in Austria back in 2002 (it was a 35 mm print). Only one shot stood out having problems: the shot inside Padmé's apartment when Obi Wan replies "You're using her as bait?". The image looked fine for the most part, but the wall behind Obi Wan had some heavy grain movement going on. The issue was present on at least two different prints I saw during the five screenings I had attended.
    AOTC 3D looked great at theCelebration Europe II screening in 2013, but it wasn't shown on a huge screen.
     
    Triad Moons, Tonyg and KyleKartan like this.
  14. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Today's digital image standard, aka a high end cinema quality 4k, like any of the major Hollywood films in 2019. I don't even see why you bring up black and white films. We aren't just talking any film, from the 40s or otherwise. You are creating a strawman argument. I am comparing the digital image shot by the HD cameras in the early 2000s for AOTC and ROTS with today's high end 4k digital images. There's a big difference in the image quality there. That's all I am discussing. That AOTC and ROTS were shot on HD video and that there is a ceiling to how good they can look, compared to either 35mm film or to today's standard 4k digital image.

    I saw that AOTC IMAX release in 2002 and I noticed all sorts of issues with the effects, the resolution, the issues with grain, shot extensions, etc. I believe I discussed that earlier in this very thread. And yes I remember that shot of Obi-Wan looking bad, even in 35mm.
     
  15. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Who cares, though? AOTC and ROTS look good, and they'll look good on a big screen as well. That's all that really matters.

    I created no strawman. I am a scrupulously fair debater. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2020
  16. Alexrd

    Alexrd Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    Most movies are still projected, and authored for home video, from a 2K master.
     
  17. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    I care. That's why I created the thread. That's why I'm discussing it. I've not once said that AOTC and ROTS don't look good. I've said that they have limits the other films don't have, due to being shot in HD. And that when I recently saw TPM and AOTC in 4k, I noticed a difference. I'm not saying they should not have been shot digitally or that they won't look good in future theatrical releases.

    And Phantom Calamari, your B&W film comment was classic strawman technique.
     
  18. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Ah okay, thanks for the feedback. Guess it makes perfect sense that if you blow up a sub-2K image to a multi-story IMAX screen usually reserved for 70 mm celluloid projects, you're gonna end up seeing the seams of a special effects film. I take it that's why Lucasfilm completely reshot ANH's opening shot for an IMAX tech demo presentation in the early 2000's? Shame that shot was never made available as a 70 mm film scan.

    As others have pointed out, aren't all animated films (by Pixar, etc.) still rendered out in 2K, with Toy Story 4 being the first to be native 4K? Disney is in the process of re-rendering archive CGI films by going back to the original assets. I wonder if AOTC and ROTS will ever be put through the same process when 8K becomes the standard within this decade. Surely by then there'll also be a solution to adding faux-resolution to life-action elements as well.

    Finally, does anyone remember that back many many years ago someone uploaded high-res screenshots from AOTC on a HiFi / home movie forum that were suppossedly sourced from the master? I know the term master sounds odd in this case, since it should be the same sub-2K resolution as the HDTV and BD version, but I destinctly remember being very impressed by the size of the images, their clarity and the look of the artificial film grain. There was a close-up shot of Dooku as he's looking at Yoda, the shot of Obi Wan, Mace and Yoda in the Jedi Temple corridor and another 1-2 I can't recall.
    Mind you this was many years ago, so they might not look as impressive by today's standards, but would be cool to see those again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
    SlashMan likes this.
  19. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    No, it wasn't actually. It was a fair analogy. Please apologize. Thank you. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
  20. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Seeing as how Disney is releasing the complete saga in 4K I wonder if they will do it for each movie individually
     
  21. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2001
    Like on physical media?
     
  22. Count Yubnub

    Count Yubnub Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 1, 2012
    You mean individual releases? I sure hope so, because I don’t want to spend any money on the ST movies.
    In the past, individual releases have come after release of the “box sets,” which makes sense from a marketing point of view. I assume the same thing will happen here. First box set, then individual releases.
     
    Triad Moons likes this.
  23. SlashMan

    SlashMan Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2012
    So as far as I know, the original Toy Story films were upscaled for 4K. The added storage gets us as close as possible to its original presentation in terms of the greater dynamic range. I haven't heard of re-rendering at a higher resolution from the original assets, but I'd love to hear more about that. As an amateur animator, I know that even opening scenes from a few years ago can give you trouble, I shudder at the potential issues a 20+ year old film would have. I think newer films that just missed the 4K cut stand the most to benefit from this.

    Not sure if this has been discussed, but I think talk of 8K will bring discussions of movies shot on film back into the fold, since there comes a limit to the quality you can extract from 35mm. Which I think we'll be primed for with how early filmed-on-digital films like AOTC and ROTS are dealt with. Upscaling algorithms are getting a lot smarter, but it still seems like a tall order to fill in detail from nothing. I anticipate early attempts will look like Predator's DNR mishap.
    [​IMG]
     
  24. Billy_Dee_Binks

    Billy_Dee_Binks Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 29, 2002
    Individual releases of all films on UHD are confirmed for Europe, so I wouldn't be surprised if they'll follow in the U.S., too.

    Ah yes, the infamous Predator Blu-Ray making people look like wax figures in certain scenes. Wasn't this excessive DNR work in part to the film having a wide range of quality when it comes to film stock, too?

    Either way, I've seen some 4K blow-ups of SD footage by fans using current AI upscalers and it's surprising how well that works today. It's interested how easily the brain can be fooled when it comes to recognizing whether a close-up of a person is in focus or not. Those programs focus on sharpening the eyes, which we as humans tend to focus on, which goes a long way of convincing us a picture is in focus.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2020
    SlashMan and Count Yubnub like this.
  25. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Yep
     
    Strilo likes this.