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The Finn "jokes"

Discussion in 'Communications' started by FromDromundKaasWithLove, May 8, 2020.

  1. FromDromundKaasWithLove

    FromDromundKaasWithLove Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2020
    I came on the forums today and saw this thread (Is Finn the worst human character?) and it led me to decide to make this post. I've been gnawing on whether or not to strike up a conversation about this subject for a short while now.

    There's been a prominent use of the "REEY" meme in various threads and a while ago, it ceased to feel like simply the case of a meme being overused and instead, it feels like the meme is being used to troll people who like the character of Finn and/or is trying to have a discussion about the character.

    Its, arguably prominent, presence in the Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread feels itself like an escalation because it began in other threads where it came up in conversations where Finn was only mentioned.

    It feels in violation of the third rule ("No spamming threads. If you have nothing to contribute with your post, please find another thread.") and eighth rule ("Baiting or intentionally stirring up other users isn't allowed.") of the Posting Rules and Regulations section of the forum.

    Now, just to be absolutely and completely clear on the subject, this is not about people having negative opinions about Finn and his character. I've provided constructive criticisms about characters and participated in civil discussions with people who shared and did not share my criticisms before.

    This is about a tiring amount of poor quality posts which purpose seems to be to incite people and encourages the exact opposite of a civil discussion.

    Is it possible to apply a temporary ban to the meme (and *he quality lacking posts) until this has run its course?
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  2. Chewgumma

    Chewgumma Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2009
    I love John Boyega with every ounce of my being. The guy is charismatic as hell and is a total dork. (Even if he doesn't let his geek colours fly that openly. But as a fellow working class Englishman from a similar background, I can get why.)

    Thing is, even he thinks Finn was reduced to being a two dimensional character who was reliant on Rey. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing in itself, Star Wars has had women reliant on men for a very long time. Reversing the gender dynamic is a valid tweak to the formula. But it is still a valid criticism of the direction that the ST went in regards to Finn, and I don't feel that the mods should barge into lighthearted memes and jokes that acknowledge that fact.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  3. FromDromundKaasWithLove

    FromDromundKaasWithLove Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2020
    Temporarily prohibiting the use of a meme would not affect actual discussions and criticisms.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  4. Chewgumma

    Chewgumma Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 14, 2009
    The posts may be poor effort, but that's just the internet. Heck, that's just life as a human being. If this isn't stemming from a place of saltiness, then all can say is grow a thicker skin to the posts that have upset you.

    They aren't breaking the rules, because it isn't baiting. The same way my opinions and memes about Ahsoka Tano aren't baiting. They're an expression of opinion in an effort to endear while also making a personal stance understood.
     
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  5. FromDromundKaasWithLove

    FromDromundKaasWithLove Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2020
    You don't need to resort to memes to be endearing and make your personal stance on something known, but that's irrelevant because we're not talking about a blanket ban that would apply to every meme: we are talking about a temporary ban that would apply to one specific meme.

    You can still use memes as an expression of opinion and humor.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  6. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    The thread you linked to in the opening post has been locked, and that sort of thing really has no place in ST.
    As for the memes and similar, I have noticed that these have been spreading more lately, but I don't know if there has been any lines crossed. However, I'll make sure we discuss it amongst the ST mods.
     
  7. FromDromundKaasWithLove

    FromDromundKaasWithLove Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2020
    Thank you.
     
  8. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett PT Interview Host/All-Around Good Guy star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    I am a fan of Finn and Boyega, but I myself actually find the Rey meme hilarious, but different strokes and all that.
     
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  9. Dandelo

    Dandelo Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Well

    [Han] That's the real trick isn't it? [/Han]

    it appears that merely stating a negative opinion often in the form of hyperbole (Which I often do) or satire (also guilty as charged) is often seen as baiting.

    it's like trying to ban Punch magazine or Private Eye to me.
     
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  10. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Terrible character is made fun of, that isn't new. remember Jar Jar? Another terrible character that was made fun of. It happens and it's OK. How are film-makers going to know that they misfired unless you beat them over the head that the character they created is terrible? And memes are the easiest way to do it because they spread quickly and are to the point.

    Finn is awful and memes are right. SW needs no Finns in the future but good characters.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  11. Dandelo

    Dandelo Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    this pretty much.
     
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  12. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    I both like (and occasionally make) memes and jokes about Finn because they are funny. He’s a fictional character, and as long as it stays clean and doesn’t spill over into taking the **** out of John Boyega himself, I don’t see the harm.

    I actually find this active attempt to censor them because of a tickled sensibility somewhat more offensive to be honest. Just scroll past them if it isn’t your thing.

    And who is the arbiter on post quality anyway?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2020
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 I Am Speaking in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    My only concern would be that the bully-humor type memes would spill over to Boyega himself, as the Jar-Jar bully humor spilled over to Ahmed Best and led him to contemplating suicide.

    Beyond that, you’re right, @Bob Effette . It’s not against the rules to make fun of a fictional character until the point it crosses over into bashing (which the aforementioned locked thread did).
     
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  14. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    John Boyega is a champ, and has proven to be so on social media. There isn’t much you can say bad about him, especially as he seems to “get it” about Finn anyway. The butt of the jokes ought to be those who wrote and promoted the character so badly.
     
  15. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Yeah, we discussed this a little bit amongst the ST mods, and I forgot to post about it here. I think we more or less reached the conclusion that the memes are fine, as long as they:
    -Don't cross over into attacking John Boyega
    -Aren't mocking fans of the character
    -Aren't racist
    -Aren't off topic, or derailing conversations
    -Aren't bashing, as bashing isn't allowed
     
  16. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Ok, so that applies to memes. How about posts? Godisawesome is waging a crusade against Rian Johnson, Adam Driver, Kathleen Kennedy. He said Rian had "a mancrush" on Adam Driver and basically most of his walls of text are attacks on these 3 people because GIA believes that they screwed over Boyega and states that opinion as a fact over and over. And like a clock, those diatribes are supported by Anakinface who is also a mod. So what gives? IMO, those posts are much worse than memes cause memes are just jokes while this is a borderline libel given that motivations are assigned to people and stated as facts even though there no proof. So I'd just like to hear what is the difference. is there a particular Boyega only protection program or it should be extended to everyone?
     
  17. Dandelo

    Dandelo Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    sounds to me he is just stating an opinion.

    Also bit in bold:

    people do this all the time, it's hardly a TOS violation.

    It's like when people boldly proclaim 'this is is a great movie,a must see' or 'awful movie in every way'

    this is an opinion stated as fact...everybody does it.

    Are you sure said moderator actually said 'mancrush' in such a way that seems as flippant as it appears? context helps ;)
     
  18. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    That's why I'm asking whether it's violation or not because those walls of text several times a day stating the same personal opinion as an iron clad fact were too much. I'm happy to say they have been absent for a while now but I'm sure they'll return. And no, no way it was said in flippant way cause everything he writes is in a flat line no emotional ups and downs just one endless flat line accusing the same people of ruining his favorite actor's life/career/day/whatever.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
  19. Dandelo

    Dandelo Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    Well, I must admit I have not been in New Films for quite awhile. I got a little bit tired of seeing the same old complaints day in and day out too, but try not to let it bother you, There are plenty of Finn fans you can talk to in the thread right? put those that irritate you on ignore and as for mods, -who you can't put on ignore- just skim past their posts.

    Also have you tried PMing the two mods you refer to with your concerns? talking from experience; actually communicating with mods does wonders (a few exceptions of course but that's true with any user) give it a shot :)
     
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  20. godisawesome

    godisawesome Sequel Trilogy Manager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I construct arguments while trying to maintain civil discourse; you do that by assertively stating your position, offering up details as evidence, then addressing counterarguments either in your initial post or in response to someone’s rebuttal.

    If you have a problem with my argument, you’re better served finding a specific weakness that has some good supporting evidence, and using that while also stating your argument assertively (which isn’t really a problem you have ;)). I did generally respond when those come up, and that’s where conversations and debate begin.

    I’ve had positive contentious relationships with multiple posters who disagree with me, and I’d prefer to keep that if possible with yourself.
     
  21. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 ST/Anthology/Fan Films Manager and Ewok Enthusiast star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    There is no "Boyega only protection program", and unless I've missed some rather out-of-character posts from GIA, he's been well within the above listed lines. He and I don't agree on much when it comes to the ST, and he talks openly about his opinions of the films and the treatments of his favorite characters, which is his right as a poster here, and as a mod he's excellent at being impartial.
    Again, I said that the memes are fine, as long as they don't cross some pretty obvious lines, like "don't be racist". Neither GIA nor Anakinfan have ever been close to crossing those lines in any way.
     
  22. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
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  23. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    The problem with memes most often is that their intent is to be amusing, and humour either translates well online or falls flat. My sense of humour probably doesn’t translate well at all. I grew up on Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Vic and Bob, League of Gentlemen, Bo Selecta type humour. I like absurd, surreal stuff, and I like humour that gently pokes fun at or takes the mickey out of people. Others are going to translate that as insults, sarcasm (that was one that got me banned incidentally) or derision of them or their favourite characters. Anything I post is never intentionally meant to do that, it is probably just a misjudgement of what people may or may not find funny.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  24. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    It goes with the territory. if you aren't invested in Finn, as I'm not for example, than you'll find Reeeey memes funny (as I do). if you are than you'll be sour that memers don't see anything else in your favorite character. However, every character gets memes, it's just that some fans are more sensitive than others. For example, I don't see too many Rey fans crying over Rey Who? Rey ______(insert name) memes or Rey Iron Man/Endgame Rip-off memes.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
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  25. Dandelo

    Dandelo Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 25, 2014
    It was proper bo, I yell yer

    Can I get a rewind!

    But yeah same with me. Memes I don't think are meant to be malicious, some are, but most are meant to be light hearted satire as mentioned.

    I think the guidlines summed up by @TCF-1138 are the right way of doing it going forward, especially if it crosses over into racism and Boyega himself.