The Force Awakens Discussion -There Be Spoilers Here

Nha, I did not mean you as "the previous poster" but you as "anybody".

This is one of the problems with a language that use the same word for the singular or plural second person pronoun (did I write that right?)

 

Yup, that's my problem with English, too...then again, the formal singular "you" in my native language is the same as plural "you", so...not much different.

 

For those of us that also post stories on FFNET and other places where you can select characters the release of TFA means that they will have to add Ben Solo or whatever his last name is. I posted a fic a bit ago and debated about adding 'Ben S.' to the character list but thought that might spoil things too badly for those trying to avoid spoilers or create confusion.

 

I saw it this morning and I feel like I'm coming off a major sugar/caffeine rush.....

Haaaaan! Noooooo!

Ok, now that I've got that out of my system: I really enjoyed TFA. I liked all the ways it hearkened back to ANH. I liked the new ensemble (but yes, more Poe Dameron!) loved seeing our old friends. And even though I hate that Han died, I feel like it was dramatically fitting. (Not like dropping an asteroid on a character :eye roll: Leia and Chewie's reactions made me tear up. I am glad that Chewie escaped; if they'd killed him, too, I totally would have lost it.

I could have used a little more explanation what had been happening over the last 30 years in the galaxy, how there was apparently a Republic and a First Order. Like many others, thought Ben Solo was an odd choice for his name (to be fair, I never liked Ben as Luke's son's name, either; I felt it was lacking in originality). My sister and I thought he looked more like a very young Snape.

I need to see it again though, to catch all the details and hints and cameos.....

 

I think, if Chewie had died, there would have been riots. IMO, I'm sad that Han died, because it was an emotional scene, but I'm glad that he did. It made sense in the story and the real-world reasons are also understandable.

I just bought the novelization and I am LOVING IT! I'm not that far into it, but it already gives some more sense to what is happening in the galaxy as a whole, and some more finer points (ie Rey's approximate age). Plus, Poe Dameron had some amazing moments cut from the movie. I was laughing out loud at some of them. I may or may not do a Poe Dameron diary.

ALSO, BB-8 written phonetically is BeeBee-Ate. Just thought that needed to be said.

 

What did he eat?

 

A bee.

Just got the novelisation in digital, will definitely have to wait until I've got all Christmas Lush stuff to get it as an actual, tangible book.

 

BroNar read a review that described TFA as "Star Wars Greatest Hits."

 

Saw it for a second time last night and I liked it even better this time.

I haven't seen it in 2D yet, (will do so when we take my boyfriends parents to see it next week), but I thought this was one of the few 3D movies that did it well, especially post conversion. It added a lot of depth of field, they didn't rely on the jump out in 3D. The few times something really did come out, it worked well. I felt like it really added to the world rather than being gimmicky.


Something I noticed this time, there was a grave to Luke's left when Rey comes up behind him. Could be that was just there because I'm pretty sure they shot that on location, but it made me curious none the less.

I'm excited to read the novelization. I killed my Kindle by dropping my laptop on it (it was a bad day, apparently), so I'm waiting to read it to get the new Kindle I'm pretty sure I'm getting for Christmas.

 

Saw it for the third time today, and am more convinced than ever about Rey Skywalker. My sister (who is a casual fan) turned to me afterwards and said "so Rey is Luke's daughter, right?"

I don't think I mentioned this before, but I appreciated the diversity of both the Resistance and First Order - women with speaking lines!!

I also find it kind of amusing that everyone is so very quick to label Rey a Mary Sue when Poe Dameron is an ace pilot, saves the day multiple times, is sassy in the face of danger, gives Finn his name, miraculously survives a crash, evades further capture and has perfect hair. Yet he's not a Gary Stu, he's everyone's new fave.

Don't get me wrong, I love Poe. But the double standard is troubling.

 

Something just dawned on me here: the similarities between TFA and the old EU (LOTF and FOTJ).

Specifically, in both of them, Luke is exiled because Han and Leia's son fell to the dark side and wreaked havoc on the galaxy. The only differences are that in the EU, Luke was forcibly exiled, while here it was self-imposed, and in the EU, the exile came about after his nephew's reign was over, instead of while his nephew was still alive and causing trouble.

Come to think about it, that latter point kinda makes TFA!Luke kind of an (expletive referring to a cavity on a person's butt). Why didn't he stick around and try to help clean up the damage like he did in the EU? Instead, he just runs and hides, saying "it's not my problem", when in reality, out of everyone in the galaxy, he's probably the one person who is best equipped to stop Kylo Ren.

 

Gee. I feel like a faker here with people seeing it like twice and three times already (I am going to try to go again when it is less busy, even if I have to be that loser and go alone).

I REALLY want to rewatch Rey's vision, because I think the 3D was messing with my eyes with that scene because I just wasn't paying attention (which makes me want to get to it in the novel).

Also, don't get me wrong, Poe Dameron is totally a Gary Stu in some regards, but I think why people are so quick to label Rey as a Mary Sue because her power and abilities don't make sense at this point. All that we know is that she MIGHT be (probably is) a Skywalker, but has spent much of her life alone. Poe Dameron on the other hand (according to the Wook) has a long history in the New Republic and in the Resistance and is around 36 (compared to Rey's ~19). However, I think, just because they have Mary or Gary tenancies, doesn't mean we cant love them both.

Also, regarding Rey. I both do want her to be Luke's daughter, and at the same time I don't. If she is, it would explain A LOT (plus I just want Luke to have a kid). But if she is, that would make him a really darn bad father, who not only abandoned his kid, but also the galaxy. If she is, I really would like his reasoning to be "there was no other way to keep you safe." And I want his reasoning for vanishing to be "I can't confront Kylo without turning to the dark side myself." OR "I'm biding my time". BUUUUUT it's going to be 18 months before we get any answers, so I'm sure my thoughts will change.

 

Don't be ashamed. I've only seen it once also.

 

My own personal theory is that it was Kylo who abandoned Rey on Jakku

 

That makes 3 of us. But I have a very good excuse because I managed to catch a flu leaving the theater and now I have a fever.
I also agree with with Briannakin on Poe and Rey and I would add that we did not see enough of him to label him anything.

 

I was supposed to see it on Tuesday, but was able to get away for a couple hours last night and see it (personal life matters required some distraction). Well, I can say that I saw it. That's enough in itself. There were some nice visuals, BB-8 was cute, the music is far better than a lot of hardcore nerds are saying (what do they expect from an 83 year old man?). I'm not happy about certain other things, but one thing I did realize is that this movie is really meant to get a new generation involved with the saga. If that gets new fans in the door, that is good.

 

Same for me, I saw it only once and I can't see it again before next week, since it hasn't been released here yet. I just got the novelisation though

About what Luke was up to during all this time: knowing JJA's tendency to come up with convoluted plots, I'm pretty confident that it won't be "I'm wallowing in my sorrow until the time is right".

About Gary Stus/Mary Sues, I also think that people should take it easy with the qualifier. SW is about protagonists who have special powers, not about anti-heroes. Plus, if a character is presented without any flaws, it's certainly not Rey in this film.

I don't get this controversy about the score, I thought it was beautiful. I may be overly nostalgic here, but I thought that the re-orchestration of old themes complemented the callback aspects of the film really well.

Completely agree on this. A friend from Paris who was never into SW called me and said she loved it. Now she wants to see the PT and OT in a cinema, because she feels that she missed something by only ever watching it on a TV screen.

 

Oh, interesting. I like it. He didn't have the guts to kill his young cousin (as we saw in the movie, he was still a very conflicted man). So he dumps her on some world where she will likely die anyways or not pose a threat to him if she does live. It's been a good 15 years (I'd say) so he doesn't recognize her. Luke, meanwhile, believes she is dead (or that Kylo turned her). It explains why Luke is so pained to see her, because he doesn't think she is real.

I hope you feel better.

Also, there's a short continuation of a scene in the novelization that kinds a shows that Rey isn't as perfect as she comes across in the movies

Spoiler

Basically, when Plutt tries to buy BB8, she tries to boarder with him for more portions before changing her mind

Edit: I gotta agree with some more points above: I loved the music, the movie was a great entrance for new fans or just entertaining regular folk (my sister just saw it and was thoroughly entertained) and Mary/Gary Sue is thrown around way too often

 

Briannakin, that Kylo and Rey theory might be the best I've read so far. It also explains why she keeps waiting, she trusted her cousin and never thought she was being abandoned.

 

My full theory on Kylo and Rey is being saved for fanfic so I won't go into details, but I do think Kylo suspects about Rey. He has a very strong reaction to being told "a girl" helps Finn and BB-8 escape Jakku.

Re: Luke, I don't believe Han knows the whole story about him "walking away from everything." He talks about Luke going off to find the first Jedi Temple, and I wonder whether he was searching for a way to defeat Snoke there. Han does imply Luke tried to redeem Kylo ("if Luke couldn't reach him, how canI?") so I doubt he just cut and run immediately after his Jedi were massacred.

I do think Rey has flaws aplenty - she stubbornly clings to the notion that her family will return even after she's given a chance for a better life, she's far too quick to trust people (believing Finn's lies about being in the Resistance, spending five minutes with Han and already clinging to him as a "father figure"), there's much anger in her (like her father and grandfather ), she runs from her destiny until pretty much forced to accept it, etc...

 

I went to the pre-show of TFA in costume (Jedi), but I'm a member of the Rebel Legion and we were invited and pre-approved by the theater. After the Paris terrorist attacks, Disney send word out to the costuming groups requesting that costume characters not have weapons for the premiere, especially in Europe. Our theater allowed us to have weapons (a local TV news reported used my lightsaber during her intro ), but we had to wear lanyards/badges to identify us. Otherwise they had signs posted for the patrons, "No Blasters, No Lightsabers, No Make-up, No Masks". When I went to see it again with a friends the next night, we were in costume, but we left the lightsaber hilts in the car.

And THANK-YOU CARRIE FISHER!!!

..... for being an older female love interest for the older male lead. Take THAT Hollywood. You do NOT need to only pair male leads up with sweet young things. Glenn Close put it succinctly in a TOS-violation way that can be paraphrased as Hollywood only wanted women who men would want to have sex with. Well, phooey; I'm tired that that. I want LOTS more of Leia Organa in the next movies.

And yeah, Rae's a Mary-Sue. The actress really plays her well, but Rae has ALL the classic signs of Mary-Sue-dom. Even worse than Luke. Giving us more of her backstory would go a LONG way toward rounding out her character in the story.

 

Hazel Get well soon!

ardavenport As long as having love interests (and, subsequently, children) is mandatory on the silver screen and as long as things such as marriage/relationship and sex validate people, this is only half of the road paved. We need protagonists of all ages, shapes and colour, but they don't have to be in a relationship or marriage if they don't want to. They can be great for many other things and they can have profound platonic relationships and/or romantic friendships, too...the things XX and XXI century so far sort of killed. Leia is much more than Han's love interest.

JadeLotus I am glad somebody finally said what you said about Rey and Poe. Rey does have flaws, and they will likely come up in the next film, because this was the case with Luke as well. She is presented as perfect-ish but only at the first glance. And nobody would bring the same arguments for Poe at all and he...escapes from quicksand after an explosion and then randomly pops up elsewhere in "no big deal" fashion.

For one, I'm glad to have seen a film with a strong female protagonist who does not look like this (b-word warning) and therefore seems to not have been created for the purpose of male gaze common in cinema; and whose relationship, while it may be hinted, is not the focus of the film, not to mention how simple her clothing is and how it plays little to no role. Even with all the flaws some of us pointed out, this and the fact that Leia is allowed to age and look her age is a big, big deal.

 

So, I just finished the TFA Novelization and I wanted to share a few things. I'm not going to use spoiler tags (since none of these are exactly huge) so if you want to read it for yourself, stop here.

Just quickly: it's an enjoyable, quick read (I finished it in a day and if you know me, I like to take my time and enjoy books - hey, if I'm paying $15 for an e-book, damn right I want to be able to enjoy it for a few days). It's no ROTS Novelization (which is universally accepted as being better than the movie) but it's fun. Some parts, like the reveal of the Falcon just do not translate well onto paper; other parts have just as much impact, like Han's final moments; and other parts translate better on paper, like Leia's and Han's final moments together (he knows he's probably not coming back )

There are a few earlier scenes with Leia that sadly didn't make it onto the movie. These scenes kinda explain what role the Resistance has without really explicitly saying anything (basically, politics has bogged down the Republic and some Senators think Leia is crazy for thinking the First Order is a threat). Leia actually sends her aide, Korr Sella to plead with the Republic. Korr only has a few lines, but it would have been cool to have her in the movie - though I'm pretty sure she is the woman we see when the Republic City is destroyed. C3P0 also had a couple more scenes. Dr. Kelonia is the name of the doctor who tends to Chewie and later Finn. I hope we get more of her.

Plus, Poe's excape from Jakku is depicted - it's fun, but pretty self-explanatory, so I can understand why the cut the scene from the movie, because I'm sure it was long - basically, a scavenger picks him up and they have to outrun some local baddies.

There are a couple short scene extensions cut and fun lines too (Rey's "I hate snow" and Poe flirting with the Stormtroopers patting him down). Plutt comes back for the Falcon while they are at Maz's castle and Chewie rips his arm off.


There are also a few more hints, like Kylo realizing who Rey is (so he knew her from before).

Edit: Oh, yeah! The biggest thing (for me) is that the book confirms that Han and Leia ARE married, but hadn't seen each other in a number of years. Kylo's fall was the thing that destroyed their relationship, mainly, but there are strong implications that they still love each other. Which, as a kid who's parents divorced because the relationship failed (but they still loved each other) I really appreciate the emotions between Han and Leia, and Leia's reaction to his death.

 

Really? We finally get to see a Wookiee ripping someone's arm off? I might have to buy the novel just for that.

Very interesting. This just reinforces my belief that she is Rey Skywalker, which would make her and Kylo, er, Ben, cousins who would likely have been close to each other in childhood.

 

Do we know Kylo's estimate age in order to confirm it? Kylo in the films looks younger than actual Adam Driver.

He could've easily killed Rey's mother, whoever it was.