A/V THE FORCE AWAKENS - The Official Movie Discussion Thread

You see, here's how it works.

Duchess Satine had a daughter with Obi-Wan Kenobi who she set up for adoption and who became a Mandalorian bounty hunter. She married Boba Fett and they promptly had a Force-sensitive child who became an Inquisitor.

Said Inquisitor married Luke Skywalker and became the mother of Ren!

Uh...I posted the picture of 30+ dead bodies.

 

Speaking of Kenobis, but on a different note, entirely, I really liked how the naming of Finn seems to have drawn inspiration from the old pre-prequel "Obi-Wan is a clone named OB-1" idea.

 

Pablo Hidalgo has revealed that the image in question does not depict the Jedi massacre.

 

Thanks for the correction!

 

Not to mention that it's a Force vision and may not be literal in any event.

 

It's the aftermath of the massacre.

CPOV! CPOV!!!!

 

I really wish so many creators weren't outright liars with these kinds of questions.

 

Whereas this was a statement of objective fact?

 

TBH I admire the way Chuck approaches fiction.

"This is awesome, because half the story is my own invention".

 

Yes, we saw the picture and the movie. Still no evidence of 100.

 

You think it's another massacre Kylo Ren and the Knights of Ren committed? One which the Force would see fit to show her?

You're not arguing specifics about numbers, right? Because that would be silly. I'm arguing a "whole lot."

Because you have yet to tell me anything other than "It's not a hundred." Where is your evidence? Show me there's no dead Jedi.

 

It's not about what I think--look, it's great that you have theories, and you're free to extrapolate from the evidence however you see fit. We all do that, it's great fun. But you can't debate the movie itself as if your personal assumptions are objective reality. You just tried that and were proven wrong, in response to which you called Pablo a liar.

It actually kind of is the Trump playbook: make a claim that can't be disproven, then when someone disagrees, argue that they can't prove that.

 

THAT'S NUMBERWANG!

 

No, I didn't call him a liar at all. I thanked the poster for sharing and said otherwise. I don't disregard the idea they're giving misinformation to preserve the surprise but I'll quite honestly take him at his word that it's not the site of the massacre. You asked me, however, why I believed it was a show of the Jedi Massacre and I gave my opinion that it seemed to be self-evident in the movie.

I do, however, wonder why so many people are reacting as if there's any theorizing being done versus what the movie has shown. If you have a theory, you should give evidence to back it up or it remains a theory. You shouldn't just call someone out on something unless you have evidence otherwise. It's rude and it's against the spirits of the boards.

Pablo saying it's not the massacre is the only response that is such and one I will accept. Saying, "that's not 100 dead Jedi" seems like cherry picking versus the actual argument, which is the Knights of Ren are probably force-sensetive given their destruction of the Jedi Academy. Which I thought was depicted but has been stated as not being the case.

 

Not just your opinion that it was the massacre at all, but that all the bodies were Jedi, and that there are 100 of them. The first was disproven, but the other two could yet be true--but we're under no obligation to agree with your opinion.

 

I didn't actually even notice the bodies in the movie, so I'm just feeling super unobservant.

 

The first point being disproven means all further suppositions from it are untrue. If it's not the massacre, there's no reason to think any of them are Jedi at all.

I should probably note, though, the 100 number wasn't one I was defending. I was defending, 'a whole lot' with 100 just being one which seemed about right.

Was anyone actually arguing the specific number of 100 dead Jedi?

 

So you've learned from this not to make assumptions?

 

What I've learned is a reaffirmation of evidence. Which was presented on my part and refuted by another source.



HAIL SCIENCE!



Oh well. I do hope we'll see the Massacre Depicted, though. I have several theories but I am curious if the massacre depicted will be detailed on other sources. Assuming it's not a misdirect, do the Knights of Ren go around killing Nikto or whatever clan leaders as a group? Are they like Jerec's group and Knights of the Force/Dark Side who work in unison?

Interesting questions.

 

Easy, drama queen. It was your number.

Technically, we don't even know if anyone in that picture, whatever it is a picture of, is dead.

So even "a lot" may be wrong.

 

Did he say the image of the Knights of Ren wasn't at the massacre? Or just when Kylo kills the warrior?

 

Yeah, they posted a Twitter post which totally destroyed my argument.

*puts head in the corner*

 

Like I was trying to say, "temple" is the canon term: https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/683725076747796480

 

So, I've got two predominant thoughts about TFA right now that I really need to get out of my head.

1. Snoke's "giant hologram, booming voice" shtick really reminds me of Cronal in retrospect. It's easy to see why everyone assumes Plagueis when the guy's giant face is plastered all over a theater screen looming over you and you're just like OH MAN THIS GUY IS SO MUCH SERIOUS BUSINESS HE MUST BE SOMEONE IMPORTANT LIKE PLAGUEIS, but really, the theatrics scream Cronal. I now really want Episode IX to be a remake of LSATSOM with Rey replacing Luke as the protagonist, Finn, Luke, and Chewie taking Han, Leia, and Chewie's place on the ground, and Poe replacing Wedge in space. Oh, and Kylo Ren replacing either Nick or Kar, I guess.

2. I was wondering, if Finn is Force-sensitive, if he'll ever get a new lightsaber and if he does, from where. Then it hit me: what if, at some point, Leia did receive training from Luke or at least he made her a lightsaber, like in the EU, but she never uses it. So in Episode VIII, Finn comes into her office and Leia opens a desk drawer and hands him her lightsaber and says "Here, you'll need this more than I ever did." It acknowledges Leia had Jedi training with one simple gesture and line, and doesn't have to go into great depth as to how Finn gets a new lightsaber.

 

I don't think he's Force-sensitive.