Lit The Future Dies Tonight: It's the Legendary 181st Imperial Discussion Group Legacy Marathon!

That reminds me of another theory I had, that later on, when Cade finally learned to "heal" properly using the "power of love", he could make amends with Azlyn by healing her completely. If the series had gone on longer, who knows, maybe.

This is why the prequel Jedi had their no attachment thing. Which isn't a perfect idea either of course, but then Cade has lost more than most Skywalkers.

In retrospect, maybe it would have been better if Cade had brought Azlyn to his aunt, Cade gets drunk, but then the surgery Isn't enough to save her, Cade runs back in and tries his healing lightning, but he runs out of energy, Cade and Azlyn share one last moment, then she dies. Or an even darker end is if Cade goes full darkside healing but it warps Azlyn's body. If Azlyn had died despite Cade's efforts, it wouldn't make him such a bad relative, maybe, by "lying" to his aunt about Azlyn wanting to live. Though Cade has a point, I thought, about who wants to die.

 

I don't honestly think he's such a bad relative as he's just killed Space Stalin (since Palpatine is Space Hitler). Cade is trying to enjoy his new life and everyone is basically getting in on his case. Really, given Cade destroyed two ancient Sith Lords, you'd think he'd have earned some basic respect but no, he's actually getting dumped on by them.

Is he thoughtless? Yes. I also think his behavior isn't really all that bad. Albeit, a night in the drunk tank would have done him good. Too bad there's no ysalamiri there.

 

It's not wrong, it's simply not true to how he acts and to what he truly desires. Yes, he doesn't care about politics; he's barely interested in the newspaper's cartoon page, probably only ever reading the sports pages. But the power he's constantly being offered isn't necessarily about him understanding this stuff; it's about him bending everything to his will so he's finally got some peace and quiet for living his slacker life. Or, as Tatooine demonstrates, steal so much that he can build a palace to live his slacker life in. And while we're at it... You see, it's a spiral. Cade is not The Dude, only interested in getting his carpet cleaned. And neither is he a buddhist monk floating through life on a leaf. He's a guy who has a lot he wants to change about existence. Krayt or Muur seducing him with power wouldn't make him interested in politics. I think most Sith don't care about politics. Look at Talon, does she look like she's into politics? These power-hungry types all want to be empowered, to have a non-passive life. Possibly to save people from dying, more likely to kill people. That's Cade in a nutshell. So why would he of all people be the proper neutral alignment character?

As for Starbuck's force sensitivity, the Anzati sense her as weaker than Cade. It would be okay to have her on the level of a very destiny-laden character like Han who plays his part in the Force without really noticing it, without being sensitive. The old CCG had a special ability level called "Force-attuned" for this.

 

Which is interesting as Cade DOES embrace power....just long enough to kill Krayt and keep his loved ones alive. Then puts it aside. I guess I don't have any real problem with Cade's relationship to power there. I'm oddly reminded of Joruus C'Boath who had difficulty being tempted by Grand Admiral Thrawn because he was content ruling a single planet and city.

 

But C'baoth already had his single planet. Cade doesn't yet have the things he wants. Especially not revenge for Ossus.

Well, he surely doesn't act like someone who's just written history; I'm not sure he even sees it that way. Following that stunt with messing up drunk swoopers? The book actively tries to keep Cade small here. But neither is it mentioned that it was only his proactiveness that did Krayt in; the actual kill should go to Azlyn, who's not really put on enough of a pedestal here, for example by someone mentioning that she's freed the galaxy and therefore needs to be rewarded with life.

 

Does Cade really want revenge for Ossus? He doesn't like Nihl, certainly, but his motives are, "Drink, fly around, and hang out with his friends."

Which he does.

But I suppose it's just perspective.

 

Cade could really use a long timeout, but no one is powerful or willing enough to hold him back. And I meant bad relative more in the sense that he barely shows much concern for their social lives that he's messing up by showing up. If they were the last possible refuge, maybe, but instead sometimes it comes off as rude relative imposing.

The Renegade issue is interesting in that it shows that the Fel Empire and Sith Empire aren't simply split along good and evil, or rather honorable and dishonorable. Its still a victory, with a destroyed Sith fleet, but still a partial failure. Arguably because the Fel admiral was a jerk, and/or Fel was testing the limits of the alliance with Stazi, who still keeps most of the moral high ground. If you look too closely, it looks silly (subordinate officers willing to shoot their captain, but the the Sith admiral orders self destruct and that order is still obeyed), but the issue was more about testing out the new alliance too.

Ugh, the Tatooine arc, worst arc of the series, personally I think it could have fit into three or even two issues, even without knowing the series would end at 50. I'm not an anzati fan either (were they a recurring race in Republic comics, I think?), so feels like an even bigger waste of time. Cade is wasting what money they steal, Cade has an inconclusive dream duel with Luke with more nagging, on to the next misadventure.

They even have a pair of siblings who don't know they're related, and no kiss? That would have been a funny homage. (Typing on ipad, not sure how that emoticon will look on boards). I remember the theories that Gunner might have been a full sister rather than half, she is a pilot too. Middle of nowhere Moff figuring out Corde seems a bit of a stretch, but that's mainly to set up for sonething else that never happened.

And while the Empire was at war with the GA and Jedi, I figure Calixte didn't expect Kol or Cade to die on the frontlines. Ossus happened before she could stop it. It doesn't excuse her actions, but that was probably her rationale. Funny how she sure seems to show more affection for Cade, even alone, then for not-Kara (I hate calling nuBSG Kara Starbuck considering she's like a plague, and I still remember the original campy BSG). At least it made Moff Yage look nicer, setting up for War.

In a way Cade wants control of his life, but whereas Anakin Skywalker wanted to protect what was his, Cade wants to be free to party. That was what his "Kill Krayt Krew" was really about. Too bad Azlyn wasn't praised more for being partially responsible for killing Krayt, but guess she's really not in the mood for congratulations (understandable). Too bad we didn't see her reaction to her kind of senseless sacrifice. Anakin wanted more power, Cade is either more smarter (he's seen the history holovids) or ethical by not wanting, or more lazy by preferring to run, probably the latter.

 

I think Cade has a general sense of Wargames. "The only winning move is not to play."

The Jedi and Sith War is eternal in Legacy and inconclusive.

 

The trouble is, Cade is flip-flopping between being smart enough to understand this and not smart enough to really hold up a faction of his own. And with how he wasn't a particularly gifted student but was kept around because of his name before Ossus (or so it is implied), a version in which he is really smart but just too cynical to care, dumbing himself down with drugs, doesn't work either. We are to believe that Cade has always been a bad boy, not a brilliant mind going off the rails.

So whenever he snarls out some "I'm smarter than though" monologue, and he has quite a few of those, it's not just so arrogant that I can't root for his wisdom, it's also out of character for the guy who seriously tries the same trick over and over again and is bummed out when it finally doesn't pay off anymore.

 

I though R2 wearing a hat filled with fruit was pretty funny, but yes there is a lack of droid characters in this series. And I always took that as an intentional statement on the state of the galaxy that we don't see that many droids.

What we do get to see, on multiple occasions iirc, are droid graveyards left behind by the Yuuzhan Vong. I always just figured that if the Vong killed 365 trillion living beings(I don't know how accurate the number is but that's the one I've heard tossed about) that droid casualties would have been exponentially higher. I think the lack of droids was done to directly reference the NJO, to show the fallout from the Vong invasion was still visible even 80-100 years after the war ended.

 

I think it was more Cade causing trouble that would have led him to being kicked out if not for his family name, not so much lack of power and talent. He's certainly shown tons of strength and raw power in the comic (even before his manifested that unique healing lightning/shatterpoint thing).

I don't think the Mutually Assured Destruction (I think that was the term?) applies in the GFFA as the Sith are more than crazy and evil enough to go ahead with risking everything, they're that greedy and crazy. Cade not playing is part of his character, he doesn't want to go off and save the galaxy, taking into account LotF and FotJ he knows just how horrible some of their lives have been due to wars and the Force and all that.

Its not so much that Cade doesn't believe in violence, rather he's read how it all ends up and he doesn't see the point in doing anything for an ungrateful, idiotic galaxy. He's kind of right too, which makes the setting even more depressing. Unfortunately, Cade doesn't really have a choice in the matter. The first time Luke showed up as a Force ghost, it was kind of a wow moment. But even then, he was basically telling Cade his choice was either to embrace his destiny, or try to run and his destiny will still find him and drag him kicking and screaming into the war.

It is too bad there's not much droid characters in the series. AG-37 was one of the best parts of Legacy Volume II. But considering Cade's running from the fight most of the time, nor does Cade fly a starfighter at any time after Ossus, there's not really much for Artoo to do. Not like they need Artoo to slice anything either when a lightsaber solves most problems.

I do wonder if there were ever any plans for Threepio to show up. Can't have Artoo without Threepio eventually. Though personally I would hope for a Vong War era YVH droid to show up, that would have been awesome but would probably be too awesome to give to the anti-Sith alliance.

The Sith Empire cracked down on all weapons manufacturing too, I think. Incom is still quietly building starfighters when inspectors aren't looking, and I think the Legacy Era sourcebook mentioned once that one company was producing training droids that could, with a minor bit of programming, go from training to battle droids. Which still wouldn't' be enough to topple the Sith, of course, but they were hoping to eventually overwhelm them with sheer number of droids, I think.

 

It's an interesting theory, especially with the bit about the graveyards. However, we're talking production of machines here; in 100 years, it's not as if droids stopped to procreate because they are almost extinct - they are manufactured. Starfighters didn't cease to exist simply because they get shot up all the time. There wouldn't be a reason not to build new droids unless Vong beliefs had had any impact. And I'm pretty sure we're not to take away here that people adopt the Vong lifestyle of hating droids. If anything, Kol's Vong shaper girlfriend is implied to have kept Artoo around with the artifacts. So droid acceptance would have gone the other way.

#41: Rogue's End!

It's the end of that Rogue pilot who wasn't around a lot anyway. Mando guy gets some sense beaten into his lifestory, including more backstory. The Mandalorians come around... simply to follow their old formulas. Betrayed by the guy who wants to be new leader (wh might as well be called Viszla) and all that. Next to that, you have the Rogue mission with the transporter gambit. Funny how all missions/battles here involve a sleight of hand. Would people really bet all on a "oh, they'll never have a backup plan, they won't follow all five transports because they only go for the obvious option". Again, Moffat script. The smartest guy in the room is simply the least dumb one.

The fight with the Mando wife would play best as a comedy, complete with swashbuckingly funny music. the Mando guy's story takes the next turn from trooper to Rogue pilot to Mando Avenger, which doesn't feel like it's been rushed because the series was about to end; it feels like the natural point. It simply doesn't feel like he has a reason to go back to the Mandos now.And most of all, it doesn't seem as if he would have needed the Rogue detour at all, what was in that for him? No, if the wife had come with info about the traitor guy, something Mando guy couldn't have known because of Mandalore having closed its borders, that would have made sense. But this here? It's almost as if he forgot, or as if he's doing it so his wife will stop trying to kill him.

#42: Divided Loyalties!

The trippy New Age Jedi finally come around! In a master class in exposition, they enter discussions with Stazi about another alliance against the Sith. Dare wants none of it, aims to get Sinde back and gets a Jedi companion for the trip. Sinde doesn't want to leave, Dare is blockheaded enough to start a duel over it, the Jedi proves smartest by telling them "duh I'm staying and Sinde has to kick sense into the young Imperial Knights", phrasing it way more civilized. Possibly my favourite observation in the Legacy marathon: how the Jedi and the Imperial Knights are different from another. The IKs are people of action who use their abilities like any superhero would; the Jedi finally come across as much smarter, and much less action-oriented. Much more educated. IKs are a constant frown while Jedi easily disarm such situations with a smirk and what's really needed to be done. Funny thing about that is that Luke's Order seemed to have a lot more in common with the IKs, and especially during Denning's Legacy-evading times it makes sense that Jaina's and other Jedi's cynical "save the world and snark against everybody" world view (Mara's legacy?) would develop into such an organized branch of problem-solvers that forget what's truly great about living. I mean, even the speech patterns betray that the Jedi here is a man of culture, of a culture that men of action often ignore.

In the apparent main plot, there's a traitor. Stazi almost dies but saves the day by advising the former squadron commander guy how to lead a fleet battle situation: by thinking about how the enemy finds them. Duh. What if that knowledge had died with the Admiral! All space battles consist of one fleet jump-dropping on their enemies and shooting all they have. The Imperials almost get the Alliance that way, but then the Imperial fleet is suddenly small enough to get chased away by one assault. Stazi interviews the traitor, who realized he was stupid on his own in the meantime; he then matter-of-factly announces the traitor's execution, which it seems the traitor is thankful for, but he's actually thanking the admiral for promising to look after the family (which will probably be dead anyway now that the stunt didn't work). Stazi being so pro-execution was a bit of a bummer back then. I wonder if it's another way of making every character have some downsides to make everyone complicated, or if Ostrander simply wrote that in as an "examples must be made" so we can rest assured there won't be another traitor plot. Either way, writing it as an epitaph like this rubs me the wrong way, especially after the Jedi have just spent an issue infusing all fighting parties with heart and wit.

 

Jan likely could have thrown a few more into background scenes, but I do feel like the droid genocide is an extremely plausible scenario. How many of the droids we saw in the galaxy were like R2 & C-3PO? Droids that lived for 50-100 years. Now take them by and large out of the equation, destroy many of the factories and planets that were major droid producers as well. How quickly would that industry bounce back?

Keep in mind that we do see droids in the story. Rav has a droid pilot, we see security droids, and interrogation droids and camera droids, and of course R2. They just don't seem as plentiful as they were before.

 

You've got your points, but regarding how quickly the industry would come back - Lando's still there, isn't he. Someone's gonna make money out of a lack of droids. Your point that most droids might have been pretty old would be a pretty major retcon, something along the lines of cloaking devices being a thing of the past. Droids were still mass-manufactured shortly before (The New Rebellion, the Diversity Alliance arc) and during (the YVH model) the Vong War, and new models like R7s were coming out (Black Fleet Crisis). If anything, we could go for wackier retcons that The New Rebellion already turned droids into a rarity before the Vong came along, or, and we'll all love this one, droids were met with hatred once it came out that Darth Caedus' rise to power was thanks only to a droid.

I could imagine one other scenario why Ostrander and Durseema didn't incude droids as much; that would be because "funny droids" is one of the staples of non-grown-up Star Wars. It's at least the plausible reason why Artoo has nothing to do. Which would be strange since there's still such a demand for Bender-type droids (HK-47, the Medstar/Coruscant Nights one, these days you have Chopper in the same mold) and this sounds exactly like what Legacy would have embraced (unlike Legacy 2's extremely cool, level-headed droid). You might be reight, of course; the droid graveyards are an excellent smoking gun for your theory. I only wish this point had been a tiny bit more explicit.

By the way, wouldn't Vong War droid casualties have corroded away after 100 years? Yeah, I know, nitpicking again.

 

Grey1

Stazi ordering the execution of the traitor was something that generated ALOT of discussion here back in the day. Some folks were genuinely appalled, while other pointed out that it isn't an uncommon sentence for a uniformed officer betraying his service. Yes, the Mon Calamarian ensign was a bit of a sympathetic character, but Stazi was running a military fleet and one that lacked a central government anymore. What is interesting is that, despite the fall of the GA, Stazi ran his fleet like the government still existed, referencing his following of GA codes & laws.

--Adm. Nick

 

Notably, I have no problem with the execution of the Mon Calamari officer but have a problem with Roan Fel executing all of those Imperials on the ISD sent to assassinate him.

 

I'm not saying that it's a really unusual situation, although you could imagine a more humane military running things a bit differently. What I find strange is the way it's highlighted here, as if the readers should be educated about Alliance military standard procedure, or as if we're really to take something important away from this detail. Stazi having a hard streak that some wouldn't want in their heroes? Or Stazi being so badPANTS that you don't mess with him? That's also why there was so much negative reaction back then, I suppose; this one thing, which is meant to be standard, almost feels like the punchline to the issue. While it's not a good punchline.

Having a final scene with Rogue Squadron guy finally accepting his new command duties, or with Stazi thanking the Jedi for saving the show, or Stazi explaining why he alone knew why the Imps could follow - any of these scenes might have been more satisfying. This way, the intended punchline is the traitor demonstrating that the genocide situation can lead to "save my family" betrayals like this (which isn't a new plot, but whatever) and we find out in hamfisted "I've learned my lesson, now please kill me" dialogue. Thinking about it, I think the talking animal that wants to be eaten at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe comes to mind... Well, and then the unintended highlight is the execution thing.

 

My family has nearly one hundred year old farm equipment in its back yard that has been parked forever and still hasn't corroded away., so I'd say no to that.

Everything I've said is certainly speculation to attempt to explain why we don't see as many droids as we have in the past. I just feel like they were really trying to show the changes caused by the Vong war both visually and in the story. For instance the first page of .5 describes Coruscant as "the city planet remains infested with Yuuzhan Vong vegetation".

It is something that LOTF obviously should have done as well, but that is a separate issue. I just think it was nice that Jan & John cared enough to make it seem like the events of NJO really had a lasting effect on the galaxy.

 

Yeah, this is my biggest gripe about Cade and you have summed it up nicely. I recall that by the end of Legacy I really didn't care what happened to him, only to be even more disappointed where he returned to his old life, albeit with the lightsaber. I just never clicked with adult Cade, though I found young Cade (Jedi Apprentice version) sympathetic.

--Adm. Nick

 

For me, I wanted the follow-up series where Cade finally got to live the life he wanted.

 

I'm surprised people keep looking at Cade's downward spiral of addiction and self destructive semi-suicidal behavior as "what he really wants."

 

Happiness.

 

I'd disagree with that.

It's interesting that with Cade we get the realism of relapses and back-sliding and people who would normally be al for 'realism' suddenly do a 180 degree flip.

It's true for the bulk of the story that doing drugs and nearly killing himself are indeed what Cade thinks he wants. Yet, if this was what he wanted why doesn't he have the balls to go through with it? Come on Cade, be a man - do yourself in! (Sadly, this is far from a fantasy viewpoint but one far too real given the amount of male suicide.) Yet he doesn't. Therefore it can be suggested Cade's antics flow from him being broken by Ossus, but also unhealed.

Now, I can't say 'go kill an Immortal Sith Lord' is a prescription for resolving those issues that anyone else could use, but this is SW. It works for Cade. At the end, it was a popular notion that Cade would return to every aspect of his old life. I disagree with that, he'll return to trading, bounty hunting, scavenging certainly but the drugs? No. Why? He no longer needs them. The counter to this is that he's backslid so many times, what's different this time? To which the only answer is maybe nothing, maybe everything. The idea that Cade's mental health is helped by killing the architect of the bulk of his trauma seems to be resisted, I'm not sure why but then mental health discussion still has a fair measure of taboo about it.

 

It's not killing Krayt that does it, though - that's just symbolic, and a consequence of his decision. The real moment he's helped is when he decides that he's a Jedi.