Discussion The Future Of The Force/Force Users Post TROS

That’s a fair perspective, though I don’t necessarily think non-attachment (with training) generally leads to a lack of humanity. Many Buddhist monks (though not all - indeed some have justified massacres in Mayanmar...) are positively brimming with humanity, and they are not free to love in the romantic or carnal sense. So it depends of course. Depends on the culture of the institution in particular.

 

While that is true, at least in the case of Buddhist monks they are given the choice to pick that life. Jedi were never given that choice, they were put in their order at a young age with little to no knowledge of their parents or siblings, or other family members. Which I think did lead to part of their downfall and the lack of certain aspects of empathy.

I wouldn't mind seeing them roaming though. Honestly, if there were various schools set up that parents could send their force-sensitive kids to instead of removing them from their families would be better.

 

My understanding was always that Jedi younglings very much chose that life, and that the Jedi were careful not to pressure them or their families into it (and indeed were very cautious about who they brought in, as per Anakin’s case). Where does the idea that Jedi didn’t choose that life come from? I’m genuinely curious.

In general, though Star Wars is a pastiche of eastern and western myth, I always felt the spiritual elements were generally more eastern than western, with clear leanings towards Buddhism. And so for me, the Jedi as Buddhist (warrior) monks works best for me, including with the Buddhist practiced of non-attachment. It’s an uncomfortable and often misunderstood concept for many western audiences, but quite commonplace in the East.

 

Anakin was too old at 9 years. Did you see the younglings? I'm guessing age 4 or so. That's much too young to understand what they're signing up for. They don't really understand the concepts they're committing to for the rest of their lives. It can't possibly be any kind of informed choice.

 

OK, but I'm not sure 4-year olds understand what they're signing up for when their parents stick them in kindergarten either. It's alternative schooling, basically. Like art or music school. The point was that the Jedi weren't going around snatching children. From what I understand (reading a small amount of ancillary material), the parents of force sensitive children had to agree to have them placed in Jedi training. And orphans were essentially adopted.

That said, permanent separation from parents or family I think is too extreme. But that's not a feature of Buddhist teaching. That's a GFFA Jedi thing. And I'd agree that future Jedi Orders should drop that.

 

Alternative schooling... that puts them in harm's way, prohibits them from romance/marriage/family, makes them government agents of corrupt politicians and bureaucrats, and if you decide another schooling they completely cut you off and you're left to fend for yourself in the Coruscant underground.

 

Yes, it seems Star Wars does not mirror modern suburban concepts of education and safety.

 

The Jedi are also okay with leading an army of child slaves that were robbed of their childhood by accelerated ageing.

The Jedi Order and the GFFA exist in a mythical world, that despite all the (magical) technology essentially uses medieval morals in many ways.

And that's what makes it fun.

 

I mean by That time they had lost their ways. They been played by Palpatine and into his game.

 

Sure, but the rot and decay had set it long before that. Palpatine didn't force the Jedi to lose their way, he simply created conditions that exploited the deterioration that had already begun. The Jedi's role in their own downfall cannot be overstated. He didn't make them arrogant and overconfident, to the point that they dismissed the Chosen One while he was standing in front of them, and information that the Sith had returned which delivered by one of their most respected members. Palpatine didn't make them lead a Clone army that had been mysteriously bought and paid for a decade ago; he simply put it in front of them. Mace went from "We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers" to General Windu in the span of, like, a week. The Jedi willingly became tools of war for the Republic; that's a choice.

All of the above is why, although I'm interested in seeing the Jedi Order at its beginning, and thousands of years later at its height, I am thoroughly disinterested in seeing the former status quo restored in a post-TROS world. The Jedi need to adapt and change if they're going to be a relevant factor in the future of the GFFA.

 

@Bor Mullet well in the Jedi Apprentice series there is a chapter that focuses on the fact that Obi-Wan doesn't remember his family and that many are brought to the temple or taken at 3 or younger because they don't retain memories really till around then. In the movies in TPM and the novel and the screenplay, Qui-Gon explains to Anakin why the council thinks he is too old. It's not very long-winded in the movie but there is a very important conversation that happened in the novelization and the script about it. The other interesting thing with Anakin being 9 is between the ages of 9 and 12 is when they start to send out padawans who never got a master to work in enclaves around the galaxy. And that is if you play by their rules the whole time. If you don't like was said above you get booted out and told to figure it out yourselves. They don't even at the very least send you back to your parents or give you that choice. It's oh none of your masters wanted you so we are just going to ship you off for manual labor lol sorry kid no Jedi life for you.

I also am really interested in seeing the Order in the beginning. I think there is an endless supply of stories there since it is ultimately about building the order. How did they get from the start to where they ended.

 

I would love to go to their origins yeah, but also find out how do they evolve in order to stay relevent in future of GFFA.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing the foundation of the Jedi Order. I get fatigued from all the arguments that we shouldn't see that, it's better to be vague, it'll ruin the mystique. If you're not going to explore the lore further, than what's the point?

 

And then, if I don't like the 'canon' answer, I'll simply ignore it and assume that the way it 'really' happened was much cooler and more in line with the way I think it should be.

 

Well, I mean, that’s obviously not humane practice. But that’s not the element of the Jedi Order I want to see maintained. I just want to see the general Buddhist concept of non-attachment maintained.

 

But the jedi do have attahments, even if they say otherwise. A lightsaber they are holding onto is an attachment, same to the idea of the republic that is an attatchment. If they are to be free of attackment leave the jedi order and throw away you lightsaber.

 

Not to mention master and apprentice relationships. Those are DEEP attachments. It is an adoption in all but name. The Jedi just pretend otherwise.

If the jedi wanted to remove all attachment then they should just live on one planet and meditate on the force. Not interact with the galaxy or do anything else, except needed to live.

 

I think the Jedi will continue, that Broom Boy from The Last Jedi and other Sensitives will find Rey and learn the ways of the Force.
The Darksiders will return as well, most likely a cultist of Vader that survived Kylo massacre, or perhaps one of the New Sith of Exegol. Somehow the legacy of Dark Lords will continue.

 

The idea is that they don’t do family attachments or romantic attachments. Obviously they still have some emotional attachments to friends, masters, apprentices, etc. it’s a compromise approach.

They also don’t like personal blasters, but they’re okay with flying star fighters that have blaster cannons. Nothing about the Jedi is a 100% consistent.

 

I think there’s a little bit of a difference between owning a cool lightsaber and getting married to a person that you’re in love with.

I mean…I guess these people might fall in love with a lightsaber: https://www.insideedition.com/gallery/meet-people-who-are-married-inanimate-objects-44311

 

A distinction without a difference. You can have strong emotional connects to surrogate family (which is what master/padawans are) as much as blood relations. It's a liers approach.

The Jedi lie, to themselves and others, that is a consistent.

 

The Jedi have chosen a difficult path with non-attachment. On paper or holocron lighted text, it seems sound, the more detached you are, the less the dark side can tempt you to be possessive. However, the fundamental flaw lies in that most lifeforms by nature attach to family and friends, forming life bonds. The Jedi Way is counter-cultural, and goes against natural desires for bonds of fellowship and romantic entanglements. For this reason the Jedi really should adopt the Rule of Two and be few, while the Sith who believe in conquest, glory, attachment, and even romance would be more numerous to create a greater war machine and army.

 

lol so I call out Yoda's cult and you call me a Sith, gee thanks. Jedi Lie all the time, it is one of the few consistencies from all three movies.

They can do all those things, but it doesn't explain why they prevent family, but mandate surrogate If they must have a surrogate family why not a family of blood? The Jedi of the past had families and they didn't go dark any more than Yoda's people.

The rule is enforced badly there is no reason they can't have families.

The Jedi are a community. They are all about working together. But like an ant hill it is all about the great good not the individual. Jedi should be able to breed within the community, if it is to make more jedi (not any single family).

Sith are individualists who seek control. The Sith want to be on their own, but also lording over others, not a great mix for a community, if everyone wants to be in charge the no one is.

If the Jedi want only to understand the force, then yes a rule of two would work. If they want to do good? eh not really. Or do you mean only 1 master to 1 apprentice not as a total number?