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Discussion The Future Of The Force/Force Users Post TROS

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Future Films - Spoilers Allowed' started by Ghost, Mar 25, 2018.

?

They should, whether still called "Jedi" or not... (see post for more detailed descriptions)

  1. 1A- allow marriage/offspring/family

    57.0%
  2. 1B- NOT allow marriage/offspring/family

    9.4%
  3. 1C- multiple temples, some like 1A, some like 1B

    23.4%
  4. 2A- be centralized, all accepting assignments obediently from a single council/leader

    10.9%
  5. 2B- NOT be centralized, wandering do-gooders following the Force

    31.3%
  6. 2C- multiple temples, some like 2A, some like 2B

    35.9%
  7. 3A- affiliated with the (Newer?) Republic

    14.1%
  8. 3B- NOT affiliated with any government

    46.9%
  9. 3C- mutiple temples, some like 3A, some like 3B (and some even possibly serving other governments)

    21.1%
  10. 4- Should be of all careers/cultures, not strictly "Jedi"... & even non-sensitives

    22.7%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Cos Palpatine

    Cos Palpatine Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2022
    Well there is this Yoda quote from ESB
    Is he being hyperbolic? Maybe. I don't think he is saying it's once and you're done necessarily, but he does seem to have draconian views on the on the subject.
     
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  2. Mostly Handless

    Mostly Handless Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 11, 2017
    agreed. The whole thing about 9 year old Anakin being ‘to old’ to join always felt a bit, “there has to be some sort of obstacle for the protagonists to overcome because the plot requires it”, to me.

    Personally I think that a better writer could have had Anakin fall purely because of his desire for power, (understandable when you consider that his family were slaves), rather than simply not being trained early enough. The way Lucas presented those themes, robbed the story of a lot of potential nuance, and I’ve always felt that the PT is overall weaker for this.
     
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  3. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    I never interpreted “once you start down the dark path” as “you do one bad thing and it’s over.” But rather, once you consciously start using the dark side to achieve your ends - decidedly walking down the dark path - it’ll be incredibly difficult to get off of it (and even if you do, you’ll reap serious karmic consequences that’ll shape your life). After all, Luke failed in the cave, giving in to his dark impulses, and he didn’t just auto-slide into Sithdom. Yoda is warning him. Teaching him. Not presenting a video game rule.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2024
  4. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    George, who studied anthropology after all, was very much aware of the celibate monks thing. So while story-wise his rationale was likely what you say, I’m sure he considered that it would fit with his worldbuilding regarding a fictional spiritual order that has many similarities to Buddhist monkdom.
    The “too old” to train thing started with Luke in ESB, not Anakin in TPM. That’s the reason Yoda gives to Obi-wan for not training him…
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2024
  5. Happy Sando

    Happy Sando Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 23, 2023
    I always thought it obvious that the "too old" line was a convenient excuse on the Council's part. Qui-Gon's reaction sells it as such. It's included to say more about the Council than Anakin, a risk-averse bit of bureaucratic nonsense to highlight the institutional problems that would later contribute to their downfall.

    Anakin's pre-existing attachment is the real issue, and the thing the Jedi fear (which is the irony of the whole situation). I'm willing to bet if Anakin turned up aged 3, 9, 19, or even 29 with no attachments whatsoever, they'd be more open to accepting and training him... but, since it's rare to find a grown-up individual so isolated, I reckon the age thing has become Jedi shorthand for avoiding those with baggage.
     
  6. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Its the whole idea that kids can adapt better than adults. because brain formation or whatever. The younger the better presumably. And the least baggage creates a better head space to develop. its not that over complicated really. This is a thing that happens in real life. its believed that things should be taught to kids young because something about their brains developing and learning better.

    Obviously as kids get older they gain more awareness and attachment to people. And that likely doesn't stop. As they hit puberty and adulthood.

    I always took that to mean once you turn to the dark side, you don't want to turn back. Or you have no desire to let go of the dark side. There is nothing appealing about turning to the light side.

    People who have power, don't want to lose that power. its corrupting and addictive. if you said to them hey let go of that power, they will say I don't want too. I want more! Why would I have nothing if I could have everything?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2024
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  7. Cos Palpatine

    Cos Palpatine Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2022
    Yeah that's basically what I was getting at with the hyperbole, apologies if it came off differently. Luke failed in the cave and gave into anger on the DS2. I mean, Anakin even slaughtered an entire tribe of Tuskens and didn't suddenly become Sith. He even murdered a defenseless Count Dooku and was still cool, albeit not for much longer.

    I always thought Yoda felt that way about about Vader, that he was irredeemable, and ultimately was wrong.
     
  8. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    Id say it was less down to underestimating Vader and more Yoda knows what the dark side is and knows its very unlikely someone will want to turn back to the light. its not a 50/50 chance. its more so 95% pointless with an added risk of even trying.

    Now if you have a good heart and have faith that humanity can come back from the dark, then you will want to try and bring someone back either way. But from Yodas perspective, Luke is just putting himself into danger for something that's unlikely to happen. Not impossible. But certainly not worth the risk of trying to talk someone to your side when that person (aka Vader) would rather talk to the bad side.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2024
  9. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    For the future of darksiders.....I am really hoping on 3 points...

    1. No more Sith. Sure in Legends the Sith survive far longer then 30 years post RoTJ, but canon should not mimic that.

    2. No Sith like darkside faction. It might be tempting to throw in a bunch of red saber using group and say "well they are not sith", but I think these kind of "dark jedi" should not show up post TRoS. We don't need another variation of "The Inquisitors".

    3. A unique darkside faction that hasn't been done before. They don't even use lightsabers (though perhaps have weapons that can stand up to one). It would make this era have very little lightsaber duels (outside of course the typical jedi practice duels) but im okay with that. Not every era needs constant saber vs saber action. The Old Republic eras can be marketed as the periods of Jedi vs Sith and the duels that come with that.

    Though I am okay with a few "dark jedi" coming out of Rey's Order, as long as its not done like Kylo Ren. Perhaps in their twisted minds they still think they are Jedi. Even still wearing Jedi outfits and keeping a Jedi colored. Would help them stand out from practically the rest of the "dark jedi" we have seen prior.
     
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  10. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    The Knights of Ren had no lightsabers. Although they were underused - or rather barely used. But I don't want to see more of them, really. With the little we saw, there was nothing interesting about them. Just seemed like a biker gang with clubs and axes. Not sure why leading the 6-7 of them means anything at all.

    Anyhow, I agree with a non-Sith darksider groups that is more than "they're Sith that don't call themselves Sith" since that is what Kylo Ren was anyways.


    We could see either a "grayer" version or an even darker version, just a different kind of evil.

    -for the more ambiguous alternatives:
    --Imagine a Jedi-like group following a Rebel group like Saw Gerrera, fighting for freedom against an evil empire, but willing to make moral sacrifices (like the deaths of civilians) to make it happen. Think of what would have happened if Ezra had actually turned to the dark side in Rebels after encountering Maul: sincerely believing in the rebellion and freedom, but going even more extreme than Saw's partisans.
    --Another morally ambiguous Jedi-like group, on the other end, could be something similar to the Imperial Knights of the Fel Empire in Legacy: they are light side technically, but they are walking a very fine line and could still come into conflict with the heroes if this nicer-Empire went to war over a misunderstanding/manipulation, they'd be the honorable antagonists that the heroes could actually make peace with at the end.

    -for darker alternatives:
    --Imagine a darksider group that is more interested in destruction than conquest, they want to rebuild the Exegol fleet of planetkillers but use them to just destroy every planet, believing life is an abomination and only death will bring peace.
    --Or a darksider group that just wants to destroy the government and/or Jedi out of envy - they don't want to rule, they don't want power, they have no ideological goal, they don't care what comes after, they just want to current iterations of both to end.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2024
  11. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I like the idea of a few of Rey's students not falling to the darkside because of....*insert old darksider dude* or a sith holocron, but because of a need for Justice that becomes revenge.

    Imagine if the post TRoS galaxy becomes more lawlessness. An increase in organized crime/piracy. Years pass and no New New Republic. Innocents are dying and part of the Jedi's job is being peacemakers. But how does such a little order under Rey......do that? They can't do as much peacekeeping as the Old Order did. Some of the members might think they need to do more...and Rey is holding them back. It gets to a point where some are corrupted by a need to put down the criminals that they start to kill in cold blood and ignore civilian deaths in the process of wiping out criminal factions.
     
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  12. Bor Mullet

    Bor Mullet Force Ghost star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2018
    Kylo Ren, the leader of the Knights of Ren, had a lightsaber.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2024
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  13. StarWarsFan91

    StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    As well as all the leaders of the KoR before him.
     
  14. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    I feel like thats pretty much looming closer to the dark side. That mindset would end up gradually going to the dark side. Im not sure you can go jedi kill in cold blood and treat it different.

    Even baylan skolls from Ahsoka is probably the closest and it seems like even he a little bit of dark side in him.

    Another example would be Mace Windu, who i believe lore suggests he is able to balance on the edge of the dark side but never actually go to it. thats why his saber is purple. But i think thats meant to be a Mace Windu thing to make him different and unique.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2024
  15. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Well that's what they're proposing... the next darksiders come from that, instead of some old devil to tempt them. Like the idea I mentioned, about rebels fighting for freedom/justice who go dark, like even more extreme than Saw's group.
    (Also, Skoll is definitely dark. And the Wind purple blade reasoning is rather dumb, I know it came from either Lucas or the AOTC-era EU but still.)

    I forgot if the leader had a special title. But that proves both points - one was a Sith wannabe, and the others were losers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2024
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  16. PrincessKenobi

    PrincessKenobi Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2000
    Honestly, I'd like to see a Star Wars a few hundred years in the future and the force has died out/gone dormant or at least that is theory. That it has taken on the same view as the Sith have no more than 2 and there is a focus on this padawan who has just lost their master seeking out their own padawan to keep the path on-going. Or just something like that.
     
  17. Jedi Master Frizzy

    Jedi Master Frizzy Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 15, 2018
    Thats not to different from The OT and ST. Where the force is mostly forgotten about and the jedi are a myth and legend.
     
  18. Awushi Awere

    Awushi Awere Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    May 11, 2020
    I like some of those "lightsaber VS non-lightsaber" fights like Ahsoka Tano against Morgan Elsbeth. Such type fight could also be an inspiration for future villains/darksider. Maybe there could be some "ligthsaber VS alien weapon" thing.
     
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