Reference The Game Master Group

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Ok, I do get what you are saying. When I was a noob, JediMasterBac(I think thats what his name is....) was a tad hard on me when I first joined. Well actually posting Stormtrooper fan bases left and right is not a good way to get a person's good side either. But if you simply want to discuss and start a new RP, then this is a good place to start! Well really if you just want to partake in a RP, I could use a Sub-GM with my new RP Allegiance RP: Legion of Thunder.

 

Thanks for understanding. What's your RPG about?

 

Thanks for understanding. What's this RP about?

-Oops, accidentally double-posted. How do you delete posts?

 

If you want to see the OP(Opening Post, kinda' like a summary) for the game, just head over to the star wars role playing forums and look for the title Allegiance RP: Legion of Thunder

You really can't delete post, just double post so much.

 

This is all incredibly off topic for the GMG. Discussion of new games can go in one of the threads designed for that; chit chat is welcome in the social threads or via PM; this is an area meant for the discussion of game mastering.

Anyways...

Fins and Sithy - I dunno if showing them the door is always the best route; sometimes some opposition in the form of a player is good. It prevents you from flat-out railroading to get someone from point A to point B. What if the player literally stops to smell the roses? I'd take that as a sign that they're not happy to be put on a train from plot point to plot point.

Of course, maybe they're smelling the roses out of spite, in which case you boot 'em and mute 'em...

But still!

 

Yeah, I was going to tell the new guy but I was too caught up in my other internet tab. (Guns n' Roses on YouTube is the best, I'm now in the jungle)

 

Yes, I think we should expand the topic. Even as I see that Draco meant "threatening the very nature of the game" and not "wanna do some things different" . . . that is an important difference. A difference under which I see the answers of myself, Fin and Sithy.
It iso ne thing if you work on your game with a player. Another if players start making demands to GMs, without the other players involved.

I think every player needs room to develop the character and explore the world. That is not to be a topic, at all. But explore the world and "drag the world into another direction" are different points. I never had the feeling I had to mmake a GM change elements of the world he played in. But if he did for other players, I might be VERY irritated. If constantly people do that, I would probably leave. Because I would not get what I signed for . . .

The GM should let it come to that. All freedom can be granted. All ideas explored. But every game got a core, it is about. And that is untouchable. Especially by anyone outside the GM sphere . . .

And we got players who see that different. And we got enough proof of games that saw the effect of such discussions and "advice" . . .

The point is, to allow freedom, to let players do their thing, these players need to know where they are. What they are playing. And if people except the GM do influence that, the game is falling apart.

And let´s not forget time is a ressource for a GM. If you have more trouble answering complaining PMs than writing updates something is going wrong. And that is not about who is right or wrong. That is about that NO GM, NO GM AT ALL can run a game in that state of affairs . . . at least none I ever saw.

 

I actually really did not mean PMs with ideas or unexpected moves by players. Most of the time I at least don´t expect and therefore can harldy railroad anybody.

I meant with both points the total breakdown of acceptance of what a GM posts . . . repeated cases . . . you get the idea . . . the questions points to theoretical the bad cases . . .

 

I have a serious question for the GMG, as a GM how do I advertise for my new RP without sounding somewhat desperate?

 

Advertise, rather than beg.

 

Well how do I tell people about the game without them thinking I am desperate for players?

 

There's the RPG Introduction Service, for starters. If you want to post in the social threads, that's generally less acceptable, but a quick "Hey, I have a game" never hurt anyone. Anyways, I'd argue that that's a question for the GDG, personally.

Anyways, player/GM relationship: give and take is needed. To quote the Venture Brothers, "compromise is the cornerstone of diplomacy, and diplomacy is the cornerstone of love."

 

If your game is strong enough you just need to post it. If that does not work, you usually need to advertise your game. How do you do that?

Well, first point is you need a working social network around here. Like you need a media network if you´re a film studio to do that. You tell people about it, kick ideas around, maybe get one or two players from your closer circle involved. Then you begin to tease it over a few weeks in the introduction thread and then finally "release" it. Essential is you allow a game to stick. But first you need to get the attention in the first place. And for that you need to get this social network going. how does one get that? Join games. Simple as that. Play.

When I got here I played in one game and one game only. And only recently I have left ABYverse to explore other possibilites. This one set of contacts I build in 128ABY kept me connected until today, 24 month later. So, get into games and play. Again the advise. It solves most problems around here.

 

I think a GM needs to be able to create and maintain a coherent and consistent world that keeps players sufficiently informed of what is going on, that they can play smoothly.

Note that if possible, this should be to the level that the player needs, not just what would satisfy the GM.

I sometimes ask for more details (I have been in a game where the GM has blanked me for asking questions, which then means I am stuck); I sometimes craft my own mini-game within the main one (my preferred resort); or if another player has the imagination to fill in the gaps, I will ride their coat-tails.

We are all individuals, with differing needs, styles, ways that we approached Star Wars, knowledge of the subject matter in any given game, different experiences and interpretations of the real world.

More to say. No time left.

 

Take a good look - a really good look - at your game from a potential player's perspective. What's the game about? Why would I like to play this game? Is it interesting, clearly well-thought out, fun-looking, etc? What is the GM offering that I can't get anywhere else? How's the GM's track record - do they know what they're doing, and can I expect this game to still be around in two weeks? Ultimately, because I have a finite amount of free time to devote to RPing, why should I join this game and not any other?

And so on so forth.

Yes, GMing is pretty competitive. When people say "there aren't enough games!" they really mean "there aren't enough games I think are awesome enough to play!" - so make it awesome. LordT's advice is gold too: play in games, get to know people, build a reputation for awesomeness, and people will join your games.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. It's too vague. Sorry.

Are you talking about situations where you post something like, "You are in a hallway and there is only one door at the end," and players post, "I take cover in the first room on the left!" ? Because that's a pretty clear-cut case of Player Smackdown Required.

If, however, you posted "You are in a hallway and there a door at the end," and players post, "I take cover in the first room on the left!" ... without specifying that there is only one door ... then I can see why a player might decide there might be more rooms on both sides, and that they can take cover there.

 

No, no. I talk about people writing you your concept is flawed, you´re game has logical mistakes and stuff doesn´t work, without anybody agreeing. I talk about attacking the game, not the setting. If the setting is constantly attacked, one has to stop discussing, if it hurts the game more than any inconsistencies. Otherwise one has simply to allow players to fix it. Simple thing. Game first. As always. My Sensai taught me that and I think it was an excellent reasoning. (Fin, that is now your title)

But there is another way of criticizing the game, that has a tendency to change it. If this comes from all players, that is no problem either. Obviously one accepts it, or leaves it and locks it. It get´s tricky if it comes from one or two, because all other players won´t join anyway.

I think I see a general problem there, which is actually that the motivation behind this is not totally clear. I saw cases (in games I was in, but did not GM) where I think we saw plain, outright cases of jealousy. I saw simple overestimation of ones own intelligence and understanding. That is a problem, because as a GM how do you write to people: "Sorry, but you´re the ONLY ONE who doesn´t get it, you know?" Had a case of that myself and I think I did not a good job ...

And I often saw that players who were not accepted by other players (most often for good reasons) did get aggressive. So, I see Fin´s point. One has to ask why. Sure. I did not think of that in such depth before. But if you come up with an answer and don´t like it . . . what do my other players deserve? That I begin a long talk of mediation with ONE player having ONE ISSUE? Leaving my game hanging? I don´t have time for this. Does that mean I can´t GM at all? Even if the complainer is totally right, that is harmful to my game that he keeps on discussing. And how could he be right? If Rule One applies, he has to accept my idea of a game, anyway.

Fin said something in the beginning of his answer (sorry to quote him so much, but I think he made an excellent point). He does not believe in babysitting. That´s it. GMing is not about making players like your game by nurturing them through it. It is about telling your story. If it´s a good one, players will like it by themselves. Who does not like good stories? That was always my understanding.

---

Having that said, I indeed have come to the conclusion that I am probably not yet ready for GMing. I learned all my stuff. Fin´s thirty-two rules of GMing made me work as a GM and I had an idea what my game would be like. But I did not get it to my players. Simple like that. I failed on that part and my failure became more obvious the moment Fin left.

[i]What will I do now? [/i]

Reopen my game and continue playing with those players who still enjoy it and who still are about gaming. Learning by doing. Is no other way, really, is there? I´ll accept some new players, too. I´ll keep it small. And then I´ll bring my game to an end and HELL I´ll keep my promise. As long as one player is out there willing to play with me, I will play Bad Day! Right now I got two players left, I am sure about. So, I´ll have to rewrite a few things. Ask for some support by my friends and see what I can do about it.

[hr]

On advertisment. I think we´ve seen some amazing build up campaigns, lately. With great success. Disney did it. SotS involuntary (by being pushed further back so often) and ABYverse had some massive advertisment efforts. All of these games had something in common.

[b]1. Quality Products
2. GM with a good Reputation
3. Long term build ups . . . [/b]

Just an observation.

 

Advertising games is not about letting people know oyu got a game. I am aware of most games that come out here, anew. Advertising games is about delivering what people want. Or make them believe that´s what you did, at least

How do you do that? Well, I seriously see the major problem in your case, that you are unknown and more important: You don´t know us.

Again the only solution is getting into games. Playing. Enjoying yourself. Make friends. Share storylines. Maybe some minor GMing and then . . . make your own game fly.

 

So, does anybody else play on other boards, too? How do you people think TFN differs from other boards? GM-wise that would interest me especially.

 

Fun fact: Many fora have roleplaying sections. I've played on some, poked through others, but there's still plenty more out there, especially if the board is at least tangentially connected to roleplaying games or gaming in general.

On a technical note, TF.N is inferior to many and while some of that comes from a lack of HTML that I don't expect we'll get anytime soon, my biggest complain is the terrible image system. True, you can learn to live with it, but that's like saying a man with his fingers chopped off can learn to live with it- it doesn't mean it wasn't dumb to begin with and there aren't people doing better.

GM-wise, it's a spread. We've got good GMs and terrible GMs that don't seem to know what they're doing. Given the swath of dead games I'd say we're doing worse than average.

Xan Edit: Kindly stay on-topic. Discussion on new technical features w.r.t. the move goes in Comms, and if you must suggest sweeping category-wide changes, there's another thread for that.

 

I hadn't thought of it that way.

So what of GMing on other sites?

 

*edited into oblivion*

 

I think we are slightly above average. RPG Central or RPG Haven have deathtolls which would kill our board. Only their relative healthy backbone got them save. GMwise, well, I think we got the best Star Wars games. Saw a few good somewhere else. But not many. And NSWRPG? Well, it´s a side-dish here and a main dish elsewhere. Sainthearts ToF is a unique piece here. There are D&D sites. With thousands of games and heavy discussions about what rules should be transdlated how into a forum game. and there is a huge "off site community". People who do it by E-Mail, private boards and the like. I think A World Only Lit by Fire is legendary, as much of it´s canon was added to the RPG books of OldWoD later. So is Reign of Steel, which made a major impact on RPers I know.
Today pretty ambitious projects are around. Too many, perhaps.

Huge boards like the Wizards RPG boards vanished, lately. Now it has resurfaced. Economic crisis drawing thousands of good games into oblivion. White Wolf was spearheading a PbP/Chat hybrid which was overcrowded but very, VERY successful in the 90ties. One has to say, with the pure creative power of such an assembly nobody can mess up to today.

So what is GMing on other sites. Why does not TheSithGirly and TheGoodImperial step forth an tell us? Both are GMs from other spheres of the internet community.

I only know of playing, which is obviously not the thing to be discussed in a GMG.

What I think is interesting, but not so much for this place is that the RPF is actually in a position of having rivals without being aware of it. Not so long ago a bunch of players searched for a new home for their "Home-Brewd-Game XXIV" and I realized this board is on a market. Games born from here and migrating to other places have also existed at least since 2007. I´ve seen some. Dunno if they are copies or relocations of games. Although we lost a rather huge project in 2008, I depseratly tried to get to the NSWRPF. With new players and all that. Which was a shame. One has to consider all the Germans are only here, because SirakRomar thought it might be nice trying out this thing in english . . .

We were originally coming from a private board with 30 players playing in GERMAN.

 

First, I'd prefer it if you'd link your example fora, because the first results Google turns up seem to be even more stagnant than ours. I'll take your word for it, but it's nice to have examples. I say we're worse than average precisely because we can't take many losses. Good games are great, but I find it better if the RP section won't just wilt away eventually. Being as the quality of the GM is something that in part comes from the individual, as a board all that can be done is to provide a place for the GM to work along with a community that fosters growth. Everyone was new once, but improvement comes from within and without.

The NSWRPF being a "side-dish" here is quite bothersome because it doesn't have to be that way. Ideally you should be free to play whatever you want within the limits of the board's maturity rules. Of course you can always go elsewhere for gaming, but given that I actually respect some of the players/GMs on this board and enjoy gaming with them, I find seeking to improve this board to be a more constructive effort than attempting to abduct my favorites.

And it's weird how completely different our takes on RPG lore are. When you talk about White Wolf and the PbP plus a game that influenced OWoD's lore, I remember a narcissistic feedback loop and a metaplot that became so overwrought with bad ideas and self-serving authors that White Wolf had to completely reboot the setting to shrug off years of convoluted stupidity. The 90s had some really terrible moments in roleplaying games. We had the "go back to your orcs and princesses you peon, for we are CREATING ART!" movement of really pretentious roleplayers as well as the guys who believed you couldn't have a game that didn't require three hundred pages of charts, a calculator and an engineering degree.

Ah well, we learn from our mistakes.

 

I am actually not sure if I am allowed to link to other pages, concerning the off-site advertisments rules. It could be viewed as an invitation to join them. A word from the mods would be welcome here.

About the "Average" thing, yeah that is a point. We´re relative small. So a loss wieghs heavier here. Guess I am an optimist.

Otherwise I think my experiences quoted are not up-to-date. I threw out the names of place I remember. As I said, other users should talk about todays scene. Those who are still active there. These days I am only here.

Concerning productivity. If one works under the assumption THIS here is the home and origin of the personal RPing history, yes. Some people come from other places around the web. They drop in here from time to time and build up their own platforms elsewhere. And we can hardly judge them for not giving our community not too much thought. I think we are totally unaware theirs exist.

Game Lore. That´s probably not for this group. But I am sure we got very different game lores. Considering our origin, age difference and all that. Pen&Paper RPers, more than anyone, are children of their Generation. Who plays games that do not exist anymore? Except LordT, that is.

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One thing is different GMing or playing on other boards.

Family Friendly. You don´t have to be there. You can get as gory, sexual or brutal as you like. With Mods usually only looking for perversions or political ideas to sort them out. I remember the St. Louis game, where a bunch of players did totally disturbing stuff in the "sexual" area of gaming. It alters your perception of a game to know these things are happening, really. We are more youth-oriented here. Which leads to more plot-heavy stories in my humble opinion. I prefer it in the long run. Although I think SotS would be a very, very different game elsewhere.

 

Well, for me I think playing here is pretty different from what otherboards do. at least it´s very different from my own game. We do more back-and-fiorth. Cooridnate dates through Chats. Which quite often leads to epic combined posts for dialogue, before entering the next action scene. We follow more the movie code of Talk-Travel-Suspense and we actually do each stepp different. The talks are done combined in chats, the travel usually written by a GM with a few shorter talks in between if we want to and then the suspense scene played out in back/forth sessions at the weekends. Works pretty fine, but is very different from this here. I often find it difficult to crawl into a character after month of weeks. But I appreciate the much higher post quality here. I think what are considered master-piece-posts here never occur in my game. Or very rarely. As nobody takes a week to work on his post . . . So I might feel the loss from a death-scene in the heat of posting. But never the same poetic touch someone like Sirak can give her characters death scene. This board is more literature-oriented than mine, I think. Mine is more cooridnating and then moderating actually sessions of playing. Instead of writing updates that are answered somewhen within´ the week.

I think my game is more of a movie while games here are more like books.