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Lit The genealogy of the Skywalker-Solo clan

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Golbolco, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    Beyond the old Time Tales page which is now outdated, I've never really seen any extensive compilation of the Skywalker-Solo family and their relatives, whether authentic or alleged. I'd like to open up discussion about the family tree of the main characters that aims to be as comprehensive and as inclusive as possible. Like real genealogy I want to not only construct a lineage, but keep track of important dates and details to construct a plausible life history for everyone.

    I'd like to start with the Solo family, up until the birth of Han. I recently got to reread The Courtship of Princess Leia by Dave Wolverton, famous (or infamous) for starting the whole situation surrounding Han's ancestry. As an aside, I'm surprised that for as big a deal it would seem to be in regards to revealing Han's origin, the book doesn't really focus on it at all.

    "Birth records indicate that Han's paternal ancestry goes back to Berethron e Solo, who introduced democracy in the Corellian empire. You can easily track the birthright for the next six generations, to Korol Solo, but records from Korol's period were destroyed in the Clone Wars and the lineage became lost. But Korol Solo married and fathered his first son on Duro nearly sixty years ago, and because of the wars and turmoil, that son never returned home. His name was Dalla Solo, but he changed his name to Dalla Suul to hide his identity during the Clone Wars. His firstborn son was Jonash Suul, and the first son of Jonash Suul was named Han Suul--who changed his name back to Han Solo." -C-3PO, p. 73

    Interestingly, this passage opens the possibility of Han having siblings: he's the "first son" of Jonash Suul, not the only son.

    What's frustrating about this passage is that, even at the time of writing this novel, the timeline didn't really line up. Han was thirty-seven at the time of this novel and his grandfather was stated to have been born "nearly" 60 years prior to that. 52 BBY is a more fitting date for the birth of Han's father rather than his grandfather. I've seen differing explanations for this: that Corellia's year is longer than a standard year is generally accepted (although according to the 2009 Essential Atlas, that's false,) but the length of that year is still under question. In the same passage Threepio also states that Han has tampered with the records, so it could be that he changed the dates to make his lineage seem implausible.

    Also in Courtship do we learn that Threkin Horm is the grandson of Dalla Solo, meaning that he and Han are first cousins. Dalla has had at least three children, unless Tiion Sal-Solo is Threkin's mother in addition to Thrackan's--unlikely, but I am just now noticing the name similarities.

    The Paradise Snare by A.C. Crispin takes the information given in Courtship and the Corellian Trilogy and expands a little bit upon it, but to serve the narrative Han's ancestry still largely remains a mystery. On page 42, the same information from Courtship is reinforced: three centuries ago lived Berethron e Solo, who abdicated the throne. Korol Solo made a claim to it and died, but not before fathering Dalla the Black, infamous pirate and still active well into Han's adult life.

    On the same page, The Paradise Snare also introduces us to the agoraphobic Tiion Sal-Solo, mother of Thrackan Sal-Solo of the Corellian Trilogy. Everything about her interactions with Han points toward a tragic backstory for her and her family.

    "Mom doesn't like people. She's like her grandfather, won't have any human servants, just droids. She says humans betray and kill each other and droids never do." -Thrackan, p. 47

    Logically if Korol is the great-grandfather of Han and Thrackan then Thrackan must be referring to Tiion's maternal grandfather; Korol died long before Thrackan showed up.

    "Tiion Sal-Solo's gaze traveled to Han's face, and her eyes widened in distress. She stared at the boy in horror. Her mouth worked, and a thin, shrill mewling sound emerged. 'No... no!' she cried. Tears gathered in her brown eyes and coursed down the flabby cheeks. 'No, it isn't possible! He's gone! They're both gone!'" p. 47-48

    On page 50, Han forces Thrackan to say everything he knows about their family history. Thrackan's grandparents are given as Denn Solo and Tira Gama Solo, colonists of Tralus. Tira gave birth to twins during a pirate raid on the colony; she took the daughter, Tiion, and fled for the hills. Denn, meanwhile, took the male twin when separated and was never seen again. Tira's father, the elder Gama, is referenced again. He had all the droids mindwiped hoping that Tira would start a new life on Corellia. Tiion married Randil Sal and had her nightmare child, and the rest is history.

    A lot of debate has been over the identity of Han's grandfather, either Dalla Suul or Denn Solo. I think that Dalla "Denn" Solo may have been his birth name and he later went by Dalla Suul the Black after joining the pirates--presumably the pirates that raided Tralus. As it turns out, Dalla was apparently more fit for piracy than life on a colony world.

    There's even less known information on Han's father Jonash than there is on the rest of the family. All we can conclusively say is that he was born Jonash Suul (Dalla must have changed his name very quickly, probably to avoid association with his father Korol) and eventually married a woman named Jaina, if the Tales story "Routine" is taken as canon. How Han later learned the names of his parents has never been explained, but Threepio's research indicates that public birth records do exist for the Solos.

    Han was orphaned by the age of seven or so at a spaceport in Coronet. If I could speculate for a minute, I think Garris Shrike had at one point worked for Dalla the Black. This is why he was looking for Han at the spaceport: Shrike probably knew Dalla, Jonash, and/or Jaina personally and was hired to recover the boy. Of course that didn't really interest him, and as we see Shrike runs a pathetic piracy/theft operation of his own at the start of The Paradise Snare. Holding captive the heir to Dalla's criminal empire, Garris Shrike probably saw himself as untouchable. The only other person who appears to have known Han or his family was Dewlanna, the wookiee chef aboard Shrike's ship.

    My last notes on the Solo family concern their ancestry going back into ancient times: Berethron's royal family appeared to have been in power from 3017 to 312 BBY and possibly earlier, as indicated by the prince-admiral Jonash e Solo present for the Seventeenth Alsakan Conflict. There is no indication that a Solo was present for the founding of the Republic, but if Supernatural Encounters is anything to go by, then the progenitors of the Corellian people are apparently confirmed (at least within Arhul Hextrophon's narrative) as Paxton Solo and Antonia Corelli, originally from Alien Exodus.

    If I've made any mistakes or left out any possible Solos, Sals, Horms, or Gamas from Han's generation or prior, please let me know!
     
  2. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 20, 2016
    As an endnote to the House of Solo pre-Han, I've worked out Dalla's probable birthdate.

    Threepio’s line about Dalla being born 60 years ago has often been explained away with Corellian years, but he’s born on Duro. Wouldn’t it make more sense to use the Duro year and compare it to the standard calendar? Using the Essential Atlas, I worked out the math and converted 60 Duro years into hours, then divided by a standard year’s number of days. If Threepio is right, then Dalla was born 94.1 years before present, or 86 BBY. This looks a little odd because Dalla is present in Star Wars Galaxies (0-3 ABY) and doesn’t look like he’s in his late 80s, but I guess that's artistic license. As an aside, I wonder if Dalla the Black ever investigated rumors of a Corellian smuggler named Solo.

    We'll move on from Han's family for now. I want to look at the Naberries instead. As far as I can tell, Luke and Leia only have two known great grandparents: the matriarchs Winama Naberrie and Ryoo Thule. Winama was a clothier and Ryoo's occupation unknown. Winama has only ever been mentioned and apparently died of old age by 33 BBY, but Ryoo lived to see her granddaughter Padme's death and the birth of Luke and Leia. The two women apparently conspired to wed their children Ruwee and Jobal, both born in 77 BBY.

    From Darth Plagueis by James Luceno we know that to the Naboo, certain families have mythological significance. However, it seems the Naberries have no significance and come from a middle class background. Ruwee Naberrie is identified as a carpenter or some kind of architect. The Clone Wars TV show has a reference that makes it sound almost as if Ruwee was a senator, but this has never been confirmed in canon or Legends; rather, Ruwee addressed the senate representing a refugee relief movement while Palpatine was senator of Naboo. Also according to Darth Plagueis, Ruwee Naberrie eventually become a professor of economics. Jobal was apparently a social worker or at least did volunteer work in Theed.

    Padme's older sister Sola Naberrie basically barely exists in the literature; I'm not even sure if her husband Darred Janren appears in anything beyond fact files, but Wookieepedia says no. Darred was an architect and took Sola's last name, which doesn't appear to be common on Naboo, and fathered two children: Ryoo, the older child, has no information on her. Pooja on the other hand followed in her aunt's footsteps and became senator of Naboo until Palpatine dissolved the senate. According to Jedi vs Sith, she and Leia met over coffee in 36 ABY to discuss their common ancestry; in my opinion, the game of catch-up the books tried to play after the prequels with Leia and Luke learning about their mother came way too late chronologically.

    By the way, does anyone know the reason Padme goes from being Padme Naberrie to Padme Amidala? Is that something all kings/queens of Naboo do, they change their names? I haven't been able to find an in-universe reason for it yet.

    Curiously, it's interesting that at least for what we know of the big three, only Han's lineage has any historical significance. The Skywalkers have humble beginnings as slaves and the Naberries were typically middle class. Of course that's not counting the Organas, but we'll get there eventually.
     
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  3. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    We know next to nothing about the Skywalkers beyond Shmi being a slave in the outer rim. Not who her parents were or their own ancestry.

    I don’t believe we even have a birthdate for shmi skywalker.
     
  4. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 20, 2016
    Shmi is perhaps one of my favorite of the Skywalker clan for genealogical purpose, in part because we know so little.

    I don’t remember where I read this, but I recall at one point hearing that she and her family were merchants and got taken captive by pirates. Something that might clue us into Shmi's original identity is her last name: Skywalker, Darklighter, Starkiller, and Sunrider all follow that same naming pattern. The problem is that Anakin says he and Shmi came to Tatooine circa 39 BBY, no? The Darklighters, meanwhile, originated on Tatooine. So they might not necessarily be linked.

    I've personally always thought Skywalker and Sunrider are too close of names, they almost mean the same thing. Maybe Vima-Da-Boda is Shmi's mother and Shmi is Neema-Da-Boda? I don't think that timeline really works out. We also have to deal with that now in Legends, Alien Exodus has been at least partially recanonized, meaning the Skywalker name itself has been around forever.

    Another thing that plays into the genealogy of Shmi is the role she plays in the Star Wars mythology: she's the virgin mother. Generally virgin mothers in religion have an ancestor of importance: Biblically, Mary is descended from King David. In Zoroastrianism, the Saoshyant's mother is a descendant of Zoroaster. Are there any religious founders Shmi might owe her ancestry to?

    As an aside, I like looking at unused names for Skywalkers from movie drafts. I am confident that Kane, Deak, and Nellith will eventually be reused as the names of Skywalkers; maybe Kane as Shmi's father and Deak as her brother?
     
  5. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 2010
    The TPM Visual Dictionary says Shmi was separated from her parents by a pirate raid. At least in the books I have, that is THE only reference to pre-Shmi Skywalkers I've found.
     
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  6. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 24, 2013
    Well IF you take Lucas earlier scripts into account the name Skywalker may have more historic value. You could even retcon some older script versions as historic figures in canon. I'd love that.


    At one point there was an ancient myth with a man called the Skywalker, because he literally could do that. He was supposed to be the first Forceuser and taught the Force to his students (12?) and so on. This old bit I always would love to recanonize in light of Ach-To and the Prime Jedi. In that regard the name Skywalker may derrive from an ancient Forceuser (not necessarily the first one). Over time the family though went separate ways from the Jedi and nonforcesensitive or nontrained ones became pilots and merchants.

    Add to that that Skywalker is not an uncommon name in the gffa, explaining why Luke could hide under his real last name. There are others with such name not related to him, at least not closely.
     
  7. Coherent Axe

    Coherent Axe Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 20, 2016
    72 BBY.
     
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  8. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 20, 2016
    The only snag I can see with this is that the Jedi Order should surely put more stock in Qui-Gon's claim that Anakin is the Chosen One if he also has the last name of their founder--unless maybe the Jedi only have dim awareness of their founding by 32 BBY and have lost the name of the Skywalker to time.

    Also regarding Shmi's past: has anyone considered the oddity that is A'sharad Hett's mother, who disappeared in a sandstorm shortly after his birth? It's not necessary for a connection to be there, but just a thought.
     
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  9. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Ah just checked your right.

    We know nothing of her parents.

    Given she was enslaved by Gardulla the Hutt and was in the outer rim, it’s a safe assumption the skywalkers came from the lowest rungs of galactic society.
     
  10. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 24, 2013

    Imagine what would happen if A'sharad Hett would be the halfbrother of Anakin after all... "There is another" gets a whole new meaning and Legacy's Darth Krayt is even more interesting!
     
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  11. SheaHublin

    SheaHublin Jedi Master star 2

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    Feb 15, 2008
    Actually, it is an uncommon surname. That was one of the very first things WEG established back in 1987 with the first Edition of the Sourcebook:
    [​IMG]
    ...a better explanation for Luke going unnoticed is that nobody on Imperial Center really paid any attention to Tatooine.
     
  12. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 24, 2013

    well later Legends made the name very common, or claimed it is, even if never showing that it is by example.
     
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  13. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 20, 2016
    You could retcon out how common the Skywalker name is by saying that it only applies to a certain era.
     
  14. SheaHublin

    SheaHublin Jedi Master star 2

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    Feb 15, 2008
    What other EU sources actually said that it was a common or not uncommon name? I've always been under the impression that it was never a particularly common surname within the GFFA. The Sourcebook entries are not only in-Universe accounts, they're also straight from the Official History. Here's the fuller page to confirm it (for those that don't have their physical copy handy):
    [​IMG]

    ...on a side note, it's also interesting that even early sources mention that "many" people in-Universe were noting the name linking Luke and Anakin and theorizing a familial connection.
     
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  15. Vorax

    Vorax Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jun 10, 2014
    Lucas claimed the Skywalker name was as common as Smith. And that was his explanation as to why Vader and the Empire never found him despite using his real name. Not sure how Kenobi escaped detection either since Kenobi went on to use his real surname, just changed his first and middle,lol. But Kenobi must also have been common, heh.

    Anakin himself was a celebrity during the Clone War according to recent canon, so its rather strange that people in the Alliance would have no recollection(most of them were middle age and older and involved in the Republic for decades).
     
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  16. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 24, 2013
    @Vorax @SheaHublin

    A lot of information loss and ingorance regarding memory with people post-Clone War... like the Jedi being no more and thus Force stuff is impossible :p unless you buy the explanation most never saw Jedi live due to being rare and spread thin.

    WEG is always gold, but Lucas overrules this with common. Still the people connecting the dots line makes even more sense after the Prequels with little Anakin being a podracing star, a celebrity so to speak on holonet and local Tatooine! So maybe it was a local thing, or locally common name only, which would work too, no need for galaxywide commonality. That also explains why Owen would not let Luke go to the academy, where the name would stick out for sure if commonality is local only! Likewise Luke raced with friends only, not in official races where holonet may reveal him to the galaxy at large.
     
  17. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    At least in the ANH novel, "Blue Leader" does.
     
  18. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 20, 2016
    Two of Wookieepedia's pages claim that Shmi and Anakin came to Tatooine seeking refuge from space pirates only to get enslaved while on the planet. The source for this is apparently Jedi vs Sith, a book that I don't own. Can anyone verify this? It sounds like it's in conflict with Shmi having been enslaved from a young age, unless she's been freed and captured many times over.
     
  19. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    From the actual JvS book (page 208)

    Anakin's actual birthplace remains unknown, but various sources confirm that he was born into slavery, probably in the Outer Rim Territories.
    ...
    It is believed that Anakin was about three years old when he and his mother, Shmi Skywalker, arrived on Tatooine, and that they were the property of Gardulla the Hutt.


    The pic of them arriving, also shows Gardulla in the background.
     
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  20. SheaHublin

    SheaHublin Jedi Master star 2

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    Feb 15, 2008
    Well of course Word of God trumps even in-Universe sources but where did Lucas ever say that the name was common? What interview can I read or watch to confirm that? I'd really like to verify this, as it's important continuity info and I'd be sure to keep a copy for myself.

    Now from my own point of view, "Skywalker" does sound like it could be a fairly common surname- a GFFA equivalent of names like Cook, Miller, Baker, Cooper, etc that were once something somebody's ancestors did and which became the surname over time. The ancestors, whoever they were, were literal "walkers of the sky"- space travelers, in other words. That's just my own head-canon, though.
     
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  21. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Apparently, at Celebration V (back in August 2010):

    https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Skywalker_wine
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019
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  22. SheaHublin

    SheaHublin Jedi Master star 2

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    Feb 15, 2008
    Which leads back to here:

    https://web.archive.org/web/2010081...on_stewart_george_lucas_main_event/index.html

    ...which does indeed have him saying that the surname is common enough that it wouldn't raise suspicion for Luke to be using it. So that definitely overwrites the previous continuity of it being uncommon. Things like this do have to be cited. Now I'm wondering how to reconcile that with what the in-Universe Official History claimed- the commonness of a name is something subjective? At least we can confirm that for 23 years the continuity was that the name was uncommon, which is the out of Universe explanation for why we never saw any other inhabitants of the Galaxy that just happen to have the surname Skywalker.
     
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  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Even in Legends, even before Lucas took part in that 2010 event, it was portrayed as Not Entirely Uncommon.

    The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader was released in October 2007, and said:

    Even while inspecting his nearly completed flagship, the Super Star Destroyer Executor, at the Starship Yards of Fondor, Vader could not get Luke Skywalker out of his mind. He silently chewed on the name, and considered the fact that the boy had been born three years after the death of Shmi Skywalker. To the best of his knowledge, Anakin Skywalker had been his mother's only living blood relative.

    Could there have been other Skywalkers from Tatooine? Vader allowed the possibility. After all, it wasn't an entirely uncommon name in the galaxy.
     
  24. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Jedi Knight star 3

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    Nov 24, 2013
    I like how Rise & Fall adresses the WEG bit and reconsiles it with Lucas words. Its not Smith but its not exotic either. Regional comminality vs. overregional uncommonality may win after all!
     
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  25. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Knight star 1

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    Jan 20, 2016
    The more I think about it, the more I think Thrackan's story in The Paradise Snare is false. First off, Thrackan is a psychopath who has no qualms with morality getting in the way of his actions, and Han seemed serious about threatening his life, so I don't think lying concerned him. Secondly, who told him the story of the Solo family's demise? His mother was a recluse and burst into tears as soon as she glimpsed Han, she doesn't seem like the type to recount the story to Thrackan. His grandmother or great-grandfather? Unlikely considering the lengths they went to erase the event from existence.

    Tiion's reaction to Han is also strange if all she knew was that as an infant she lost a twin and a father in a pirate raid. Being emotional is natural, but she seemed to have a stronger reaction to Han showing up than she should. The way I read her in TPS is that she had a relationship with her father and Jonash at some point in her life.

    I think Thrackan was just making something up so that Han would spare his life. Parts of the story might be true, but there's inconsistencies that can be explained this way.