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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The genealogy of the Skywalker-Solo clan

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Golbolco, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    There’s likely a generation between Ben and Nat/Kol.

    Also, it’s confirmed Roan is Jag’s grandson.


    Shmi

    Anakin&Padme

    Siblings
    Luke&Mara — Leia&Han

    First Cousins
    Ben&?? — Jacen&TenelKa — Jaina&Jag — Anakin

    Second Cousins
    Skywalker&?? — Allana (&??) — Fel the Second & ?? — Other Male Fel & ??

    Third Cousins
    Kol&Morrigan — Nat&Droo — Maybe more Hapans — Roan&Elliah — Morghan Fel

    Fourth Cousins
    Cade — Marasiah — somehow Ania Solo
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2019
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  2. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 20, 2016
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  3. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2016
    There's no way Bail Antilles is Breha's father!
     
  4. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 20, 2016
    I’m very confused by the Alderaanian Antilles house as a whole, honestly. There’s nothing that immediately suggests a connection between Breha, Raymus, and Bail (Antilles) beyond their last names, but what was the intention of Lucas on this matter? Also, is there an out of universe reason for why they’re not connected to the Corellian Antilles family? When I was growing up I thought that Captain Antilles in ANH was intended to be Wedge’s father. Maybe Jagged and Zena Antilles were cast off of Alderaan and settled on Corellia due to a family schism? I don’t know, I’ve also heard an answer that Antilles is a very common name. Does anyone know where this mystery began?
     
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  5. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2016
    The character of Bail Antilles in TPM was originally supposed to be Bail Organa and had a larger role. Somewhere along the way, GL decided not to include Bail Organa in TPM and thus renamed the senator from Alderaan Bail Antilles, which was the original name of the Bail Organa character in the early drafts of ANH. Then it became Chewbacca's last name, then Wedge's. Now, to ANH, there are two Antilles characters present in the film, Raymus and Wedge. However, Wedge is given no last name in the film. In the book, his name is Wedge Antilles and the Tantive IV captain's name is Captain Colton, being based on an early draft of the script than the final shooting script. The "Antilles is a very common name" thing is an excuse because of all the different Antilles characters that fell through the cracks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
  6. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 20, 2016
    So what stops Bail from being Breha’s father? Is it an age problem? As far as I know, they are canonically part of the same house.

    Interesting stuff though - funny that Chewie at one point had a rather human-sounding last name!
     
  7. Daneira

    Daneira Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2016
    I mean, I suppose it's technically possible that Bail Antilles is Breha's father, but he have had her pretty young, and I just feel like it would've been mentioned if it were the case.

    Now I'm thinking about the Alderaan monarchy. In Legends, Bail Organa's mother, Mazicia Organa, married into the Organa family and was Queen of Alderaan. Then there's the whole Alderaan Ascendancy Contention which resulted in the Organa and Antilles families joined by marriage, presumably Bail and Breha. Then Breha's the Queen of Alderaan, Leia is the Princess, but Bail's just the Viceroy, which isn't even a "royal" position. Wouldn't he at least be a prince? In Canon, it's Breha's mother that was the Queen, which makes a lot more sense.
     
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  8. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 20, 2016
    Hmm. I know Mazicia’s maiden name is probably Mandirly, but maybe Mazicia was originally an Antilles or the Antilles family otherwise had a reasonable claim to the throne? Maybe the Antilles are bastard children of whoever preceded Mazicia. So Bail and Breha’s marriage would have been arranged to unite the bloodlines and end debate over Ascendancy. Bail could have even abdicated his birthright to rule.

    But actually, do Alderaanians even have princes or kings? Or any male royalty? Did Bail ever have a legitimate claim to the throne? There’s King Kayos in the early drafts of ANH, but what about in Legends or Canon? Maybe TOR brings it up, I was always hazy on the details for Alderaan in that game.
     
  9. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Alderaan has male royalty too, especially in TOR! Only new canon made it a female powerhouse like new canon did with nearly any other they touched.

    TOR has Alderaan be a Game of Thrones style noble houses hodgepodge vying for the throne and influence through marriages and other maneuvering rivalling Hapes even in intrigue :p

    Prequel times Alderaan is the complicated spot as noted above.

    Legends had it be a democracy lead by royalty, canon has it a monarchy with not much democracy surviving. A pity!

    Regarding the Antilles name, it is common, not all need be related, but the Alderaanian ones might be. Making Bail Antilles Brehas dad is like the Horn/Halcyon Family timeline issues of teenage pregnancies.

    But then again, maybe Bail Antilles just looks way younger than he is. It happens... look at Keanu Reeves and such.

    The Question also for Alderaanian birthrights and royalty: Do women take a mans name upon marriage or vice versa or is that free to be choosen? We always assume western standards which is not what we should do. Maybe that helps.

    Breha is an Antilles, married an Organa and ruled as an Organa. What if Bail Antilles is Bail Organa... married Breha Organa, took her last name and so on? Sure a retcon no longer possible I know, but I still liked that version resurrecting old Lucas ideas as well as fits better with what we got than the mess we are in now.


    PS: Halcyon/Horn family next please! As well as: Are they only connected to the SkySolos via Jaina marrying Jag, whose uncle is Wedge, who was adopted by Booster Terrik, whose daughter Mirax married Corran Horn? Or can we assume down the line Jysella or Valin Horn married properly into the Clan? I miss these next gen's next gen... Horn kids, Antilles kids, Seha Dorvald and co...
     
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  10. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    I'm just wondering what gives the Antilles and Organa clans reason to both have claims to the Alderaanian throne. It was important enough to cause a public problem that required a Jedi (Jorus C'baoth, no less) to come solve it for them. I kinda like the idea that the clans are both descended from a recent Monarch and Jorus's solution was to just marry them, but I never took Star Wars royalty to be as alright with kissing cousins as our monarchs on Earth are. Then again, Jorus C'baoth wasn't known for giving elegant solutions to the problems of mere mortal non-Jedi.

    I've thought about the Horn family a little bit. It seems thematically likely that the families of the X-wing characters become mingled for later stories (side note: remind me to return to Tycho and Winter sometime.) But then again it seemed that the writers became allergic to the generation following Han/Luke/Leia and even moreso the generation after them. How many named grandkids do Han and Leia have? One. I think that's kind of ridiculous.

    There are the Antilles from Legacy that might be descended from either Wedge or the Alderaanian Organas. I suspect they're Alderaanian because one of them is named Bail which as far as I know is an Alderaanian name, but then again Antilles is such a common name so who knows. At least unlike the name Skywalker, we have in-universe examples of Antilles showing up everywhere.
     
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  11. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

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    Jan 20, 2016
    Some stray thoughts, some erring on the One Canon side of things.

    I like to think that Corellia Antilles is the Legends counterpart to Dr. Aphra, or that Corellia is Aphra's daughter (I'm not certain that would line up age-wise.)

    Although he's not explicitly linked to Vima Da-Boda's clan, Ashka Boda was introduced in Dark Empire specifically in relation to the characters that would later be rolled in to the TOTJ plot. I assume that Ashka Boda was part of one of the last (known) lines of the Sunriders.

    Speaking of Jedi lore keepers: is it unreasonable to think that at one point, Jerec may have been a candidate for Cronal's true identity? Like Jerec, Cronal has been linked to Jocasta Nu. Cronal's deep involvement with the Dark Forces II antagonists is also telling. I could probably write a whole new thread for my entire list of potential Cronal identities, though...

    Spoilers for Myths and Fables:
    I don't think the timeline works out in relation to all of the different Galaxy's Edge content, but could Anya from The Black Spire be one canon'd into Ania Solo? I guess if she and her siblings appear anywhere else in the Galaxy's Edge tie-ins, then that theory's null.

    Finally: we talk a lot about the illegitimates of Palpatine, Obi-Wan, occasionally Dooku (canonically the sexiest Jedi alive). But I think the most likely character from the Prequels to have babies running around is Qui-Gon. When I get to reading through the pre-prequel era content again, I'm keeping an eye out for any stray kids--after all, Qui-Gon has been known to have a fondness for children who don't have fathers, they could be chosen ones!
     
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  12. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    please give me your full Cronal-ogy list ;) Jerec and Cronal are different but might have been different in other times before the many retcons indeed.

    Agewise Corellia Antilles can be worked to fit as Aphras daughter or adopted daughter if ages are too close. She never had one set in stone aside NR era activity.

    Have yet to recieve and read Myths and Fables, but the marketing looked not as interesting as I made it out to be upon first hearing the title. I hope it is good enough.

    Regarding stray children, Qui Gon might have some, but that'd be in his past and youth. Rael Aveross though must have plenty... he even dated his own Padawan before her death after all!
     
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  13. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    If I recall correctly, Jerec wasn't always a Miraluka, just a blind human that got retconned into the Miraluka species. Nevertheless, are they completely identical? Maybe not.

    Like I said, the details of Cronal's identity could be spun off into its own thread, but I don't have a complete writeup for him yet, so I'll hold off. Instead I want to discuss one detail about him that's always irked me: his relationship to the Isards. How was Cronal director of Imperial Intelligence when Ysanne sabotaged her father after he had tried to screw her on the Darkknell mission? I've read Despoilers of an Empire, and while I really like and appreciate the article, this is one detail that I think the authors overlooked. Blackhole is merely retconned into an interim director, or rather the director of intelligence for the eventual Dark Empire.

    I got to thinking, why can't Cronal also be Armand or even Ysanne? Blackhole is described as androgynous, although the voice is male. Perhaps Ysanne, knowing how the Empire's elite is generally sexist, invented a male persona in Blackhole to better gain the trust of her colleagues. And, if we go with the theory that Shadowspawn in Shadows of Mindor was a remote-controlled clone that Cronal operated from Otherspace, then perhaps Armand and Ysanne were the same.

    Something else that interests me with Ysanne is that she did believe herself to be in love with Emperor Palpatine. While I've voiced my concerns over Palpatine and the ladies in the past, this did make me realize that 2/3 of Palpatine's supposed affairs were with Force-sensitive people: Sly Moore and Roganda Ismaren were both rumored by the public, but at least from Ysanne's point of view she did indeed have a relationship with Palpatine, and as far as I remember from X-Wing she's not Force-sensitive. Then again, if I continue to posit that at least part of the Isard family tree is Cronal-clone in origin, then as we all probably know cloning Force-sensitives can come out with some serious defects. Perhaps they mutated and lost Force-sensitivity at all, or Cronal specifically had it removed from them for when he planted the Isards in Palpatine's circle.

    I've wondered about Cronal and Sariss's relationship before (still icky) but mostly about her mother. But perhaps Cronal is the mother, from a certain point of view. Cronal, through Ysanne Isard, conceived a daughter with Palpatine! Kyle Katarn therefore killed the true heir to the empire.

    Maybe I'm veering way off into the depths of bad fan speculation at this point. I guarantee that Stackpole didn't have this in mind when he began writing X-Wing, though.
     
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  14. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    @Golbolco

    I'd also like to hear more about Dark Forces II in relation to Cronal as well as his Jocasta Nu ties. ;) And don't worry about icky or bad fantheories... we both live on the same wavelength there it seems!

    Ever seen Predestination with Ethan Hawke? the most convoluted timetravel movie ever made (aside from a certain timetravel tv show that is, nope not Doc Who). I'd not like to spoil it for you, its great, but icky and deals with timetravel, as well as sexchange. No cloning though. You'll see.

    Regarding the Isards, I'd not overdo cloning and remote controling. Like the later retcon heavy articles it gets messy and convoluted. But I love your idea of Blackhole being androgynous and used by multiple people. In that regard, what if Isard went to Cronal and they together developed the Blackhole persona and idea, presented it to Palpatine who sanctioned it. They both thus could use the Blackhole fake identity. Cronal used many, so he needn't always use Blackhole and Ysard just went on to top her father bypassing his authority and in secret became his superior even from a certain point of view! She loved power and men in power, however ugly they were. If she really had anything with the Emperor or if that was just her wish, who knows.

    I also think, sadly, cause I love Cronal as post-Endor prime-enemy had he been developed as such more and not too late too shortlived, that Cronal is overpowered. What if Cronal is not always Cronal, as noted above already. Blackhole can be used by multiple people but most ascribe him to Cronal. Likewise the other article made retcon that Dark Empire Cronal was not Cronal but possibly Sate Pestage is another contender. Though I am more comfortable with Cronal himself capturing Mara Jade, not Pestage.

    We have to not make Cronal more powerful than the Emperor himself, which he was given he too is into bodyhopping, remote controling others as well as other shenangians like clones etc. or we reach the point where we wonder why Palpatine never moved against him. Why Cronal never toppled Palpatine. Or even... Is Cronal and Palpatine the same person? Is it even possible to inhabit multiple bodies at the same time? Just use a Forceuser who studies hiveminds and develops a power to mimic that or Killik Joining and you got scary new implications. Voldemort spread his soul over several horcruxes, which could be living beings. Palpatine or Cronal might discover a similiar ability. (Heck this ties perfectly into my Palpatine / Killik theory from the Episode IX topic, lol never intended that!)

    While the Sorcerers of Rhand and Cronal tend to think of themselves higher and mightier than they probably were ultimately, Palpatine, Plagueis and few others actually had that level of mastery.

    At one point i'd even speculated that Cronal is Darth Rivan or other ancient characters from Vitiate to others. Cronal has many plans and machinations going, but...

    a) he always is subservient to Palpatine, be it before ROTJ or in Dark Empire
    b) he always, even overpowered to the extreme, never seems to do it for himself or his rule

    At first I thought he is so loyal and in love with Palpatine that he'd love to die for him, wished for perfecting his power only so Palpatine would see him as the perfect vessel to inhabit. Which might be why he wanted to take Skywalker, so Palpatine would take him!
    I even speculated he once knew Plagueis and that is where his overpowering came from... maybe Plagueis saved Cronal from dying, given we never learned who he saved, who the one Plagueis loved as per ROTS was. But why then has Cronal no grudge against Palpatine? Does he think Palpatine is Plagueis reborn? Why does Palpatine then not fear him and his power? Unless Palpatine already took care of that somehow? Is Cronal only leeching power of someone else, not too overpowered on his own? Does that explain why he always attaches to someone? Be it the Emperor, Emperor Reborn, be it Skywalker or even Old Ones hiding in Otherspace? Maybe Cronal is a Force Vampire. Like Palpatine empowered Mara willingly, Cronal is a leech.

    Thus Cronal needs either powerful friends to leech on... or strong puppets he can control while leeching of them! With Palpatines "death" he went to Jerec and his own daughter... until moving on to Skywalker himself, then the Emperor reborn until he found out about him. And even Irek Ismaren, a rumored child of the Emperor!

    It'd be fun to view Cronal that way... imagine his fear, if alive, when the Yuuzhan Vong invade. Him, leeching and vying for ever stronger Forceusers coming face to face with people that are empty blank shells to him. Nothing to leech... their mere presence near him weakens him to his crippling unnaturally old age near death! Lets hope he never lived to meet Abeloth...
     
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  15. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    I can go with the idea that Blackhole is a shared identity. And yeah, it could have been that Ysanne was lying to Corran when she said she had an affair with the Emperor; I think in general Ysanne fancied herself as the eventual Empress of the Empire, with Palpatine in the picture or not.

    I have this theory that I'm going to post in the Headcanon thread only after the next TOR expansion comes out, but it does tie Palpatine and Cronal into the same entity... sort of.

    For now, I can say this: The name "Cronal" is a title, and the Prophets of the Dark Side are a Sith cult. I've personally believed that the only other group after the films with potential to be declared legitimate Sith were the Prophets of the Dark Side, given they were founded by a Sith Lord themselves. Perhaps Cronal called himself Darth Cronal, effectively declaring himself rival to Palpatine. We know that at least based on author's intent, Cronal was actively terrorizing the galaxy as Zeta Magnus/Atha Prime during the Clone Wars. The name "Cronal" itself could be taken as an homage to Darth Millennial because they both involve time, but Cronal seems more like it's referencing the end of time, given one of Cronal's stated end goals is to survive long enough to witness the destruction of the universe. Palpatine, however, was the stronger of the two Sith. I say this because Palpatine not only defeated Cronal, but he gave him a fate worse than death. Both Atha Prime and Shadowspawn were said to have returned from exile, and my personal interprtation (or fix) for Despoilers of an Empire is that Cronal was based in Otherspace. I think that Palpatine banished Cronal to Otherspace, and Cronal only managed to influence the galaxy for two decades in minor ways through his pawns (shadow's pawns?)

    We know from Cult Encounters and Supernatural Encounters that Palpatine was at least somewhat aware of obscure Force lore regarding Otherspace. We know that he had Hethrir attempt to summon Waru after the discovery of the Night Spirits on Endor. After Sheev's first death, Cronal either returned himself or sent a clone in the form of Shadowspawn/Atha Prime to continue his crusade of terror. Shadowspawn almost does operate like a hivemind by using the meltmassif on his victims, and if Cronal has actually been operating in Otherspace in control of Shadowspawn then we should assume he has limited power to do so also. Maybe only with individuals that share his DNA? He could have been seeing through Sariss's eyes during Dark Forces 2. This might explain how Cronal appears to be in so many places at once. And while I do love your theory on Cronal trying to prepare the Skywalker body for Palpatine to inhabit, I just don't get the sense that Palps and Cronal got along very well. Maybe this was more a pipedream of Shadowspawn's, a minor case of Force madness on his part thinking Palpatine would be okay with all this.

    Thanks for bringing up Sate Pestage also having confusing post-Endor chronology, by the way. I once thought it was likely that Cronal and Pestage were one person, but right now I don't really favor that. I am open to it, though. I agree that Cronal should have been built up as a more major villain post-Endor but it was too late for that; I still think Matt Stover should have returned to write a sequel starring Nick Rostu vs Shadowspawn following the events at Mindor, maybe introducing a surviving Mace Windu if necessary. I think that's better than the Perek retcon...

    One more thing: Cronal's status as Palpatine's "monster maker" seems to conflict with his ideals as a Rhandian Sorcerer. Why create new lifeforms or otherwise mutate them if you're an extreme nihilist? I'm not even sure we should accept that the Sorcerers of Rhand exist; they're too close to the Sorcerers of Tund for comfort if you ask me, and also I doubt that Lorz Geptun was able to find out about Cronal's past as one of them, unless Luke somehow knew and told Geptun while he wrote the story we're told in Shadows of Mindor. Maybe he only became a Rhandian following his exile by Palpatine? We know that Zeta Magnus interacted with them while forming an empire near the Chiss Ascendancy.

    Cronal as a Force Vampire, Cronal as a reborn ancient Darksider, Cronal as a monster maker... I think Cronal has more in common with Cold Danda Sine than anyone else... Maybe Cronal operated at the maelstrom that became Cold Danda Sine's body while living in Otherspace. Funny that Cold Danda Sine would also later be remembered as a god of death and decay.
     
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  16. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    @Golbolco

    You got me thinking about Cronal and Cold Danda Sine now, as well as Otherspace. For one, I like to connect him to those and him working from the shadows through his pawns makes sense. But, still trying to not overpower him compared to Palpatine, I think that there may be a reason why he at one point served Palpatine and they grew apart later on. Also, I'll get back to him being a monster maker which as you noted does not fit his philosophy.

    I imagine that for whatever reasons Cronal and Palpatine befriened each other, worked together and only later separated. Like Palpatine worked with Talzin, promised her to be his Empress and all that but never meant it. Cronal and Palpatine were partners in crime, but Palpatine betrayed Cronal and never gave him what he promised him. This betrayal ties into Cronals first exile even. They both longed for immortality and the arcane, and Palpatine was wise enough not to use untested tech and powers on himself. Therefore he used them on Cronal first to see if they work as they should or not. To Cronal he sold this as a reward or benefit. Cronal thought Palpatine gave him power, gifts while in fact he abused him as guinea pig for his own rise. This is why Cronal learned of bodyhopping, clones, and all the Palpatine-esque stuff. But Palpatine did not want him to rise to his equal and so needed a plan in place that would keep Cronal from turning on him.
    So when the tests Palpatine wanted were successful and Cronal had bodyhopped etc. all, Palpatine sent him to his doom, masking it as yet another rewarding mission for their shared goals. But Cronal did not know that Otherspace would be a death trap. One final test by Palpatine to see what happens when one wakes the Old Ones. But Cronal was strong enough to survive Otherspace and influence the outside world over time.

    Or did Cronal die and merely become a shell for an Old One ever since, who used Cronals connections to his pawns as a way to escape Otherspace and into those minds?

    The question is since when is Cronal a Nihilist? And how did he become that man that he is. Who was he before and what events lead to his downfall? Or was he raised in Darkness? He could have been a Monster Maker before switching to absolute nihilism.
     
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  17. Gamiel

    Gamiel Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2012
    Can we really say that we "know" since those to works was never made official?
     
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  18. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    No but we can say that we know from Abel's sources that Palpatine and Vader were interested in Hethrir summoning Waru...
     
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  19. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    In my book, cut content is as good as official content to fill in blanks so long as the passage in question isn’t contradicted by any official content. Given that unless Marvel decides to surprise us in the next solicitations we’re only getting cut and cancelled content to expand Legends right now (TOR’s still going strong too) then I’ll accept what we can get.

    @ColeFardreamer - it might be time to try and construct a life history for Cronal, a more in depth look at the chronology of where he was and what he was doing at any given point. But for now I’m going to take closer looks at known family connections to the Skywalkers before getting into the peripheries.
     
  20. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    I've been thinking a little bit more about the Antilles before I move onto my Grand Unified Theory of Ania Solo.

    The Legacy Antilles in particular are what I'm interested in. As far as we know, the Alderaanian house of Antilles are extinct unless it's later retconned that Wedge's family are in fact part of their tree (or just stated to be so in canon.) That being said, is "Bail" an explicitly Alderaanian name? The Bail Antilles present in Legacy's flashbacks seems to indicate that this isn't the case. But then we also have Bail Antilles and Bail Organa in the same continuity. I would assume that this Bail would be the grandson of either Syal or Myri Antilles given his involvement in the Galactic Alliance power structure, but then again if Antilles is as common a name as we think then there's no good reason to assume a connection to a preexisting family, unless Bail really is only an Alderaanian name.

    Side note: is anyone else frustrated how after The Unifying Force, the lives and times of many characters that were children of heroes prior to the Vong War were just ignored or shafted? At least Legacy tried to move things forward. I get that the big three sell, but it's like Star Wars caught Franklin Richards syndrome.

    Now onto my big theory: I think that if Legacy II were allowed to play out, Ania Solo's big convoluted history would have had nothing to do with descent from the SkySolos, and everything to do with descent from Darth Krayt.

    I think everything involving Ania's ancestry was a red herring. She probably is a Solo, sure, but that's not the big driving force for her character's mystery. Based on Marasiah's reaction to Ania's existence we know she's not a Hapan and therefore probably not of Allana's lineage; if she is, then she has some obscure twist or disconnect there. Besides, we know who the Hapans are during Legacy: it's Elliah Fel and Hogrum Chalk, and if they're not Solos then the royal family that was complaining about Elliah's death is most likely the ruling Solo family. For the same reasons, Ania is probably not a Fel and perhaps not connected to Jaina at all. I think the implication here is that Jacen's known descendants are the Hapan royals (and perhaps Marasiah herself,) Jaina's known descendants are the Fels, and Ben's known descendants are Nat, Kol, and their children.

    In my opinion this leaves three most likely options assuming that Ania's family twist didn't occur in the generation immediately preceding her. She's either an illegitimate of Jacen's, an illegitimate of Jaina's, or somehow a descendant of Anakin's.

    Jaina could have had an illegitimate child during the Swarm War, perhaps with Zekk. But is this plausible? Especially considering her arc in Legacy of the Force, I just don't think it's in character for her to have hidden a Solo grandchild from the rest of the family. If she gave the child up for adoption or left it among the Killiks or something, why would their lineage keep the name Solo?

    Jacen having an illegitimate seems more likely. He could have impregnated Danni Quee, Alema Rar (although I don't think Ania shows Twi'lek ancestry) or Tahiri Veila (ew.) I'm not wed to this theory mostly because I dislike what happened to Jacen's character, but I do concede that this is the most likely option except for one snag: why would Jacen's bastard share a last name with him?

    My personal favorite option (although I concede it's not the most likely) is that Tahiri Veila had a child with a clone of Anakin. I keep coming back to Darth Vua which we discussed earlier in this thread. But Darth Vua doesn't just play into the possibility of a surviving Anakin lineage: his "affiliation" (or captivity with) the One Sith plays into my belief on Ania's ancestry.

    What is important to my theory, however, is the role Tahiri plays no matter who the male Solo was. I've mentioned already that I think Tahiri's mystery Jedi grandfather was Krayt. I'm going to posit that Tahiri was the great-grandmother of Ania, and the child's disappearance occurred because the One Sith (or Lumiya's Sith, whatever) took them. Krayt's bloodline firmly remained part of the One Sith for decades until Ania's generation; in fact, I think Ania may have even been raised among the One Sith. The only detail we know about the reason behind her imprisonment is that she murdered someone; perhaps a Sith lord? Did she act in rebellion against her masters? What act of murder would get someone put in prison but not executed outright? These are Sith we're talking about, they don't keep people alive for no reason. I just think it's improbable unless there was a reason to keep her alive for later. I think Ania's imprisonment was intended to break her and turn her to the dark side if possible.

    Based on the Legacy comics alone there's not a ton of evidence that the leader of the One Sith has to be hereditary, but based on the disarray the Sith are in after Krayt's death and the lack of a focused leader, I can see a situation developing where finding and crowning his heir/ess the new Sith Emperor in parallel to the search for Palpatine's heirs after his death at Endor, so that they don't fall to infighting as the One Sith philosophy is meant to prevent anyway. The difference is that while Palpatine didn't leave behind any heirs that one can make a convincing enough case for, Krayt might have.

    It may even be that we've already seen Ania's parents. They could have been Sith during the original Legacy run or afterwards and we were only going to be told that later.

    So why is Ania non-Force-sensitive? While it's possible that she's a genetic fluke, I also think it's possible that someone cut her off, perhaps even herself. This might have been to protect her, or she's become a wound in the Force as was common during the Jedi Civil War. I also couldn't help but look back at Thrawn McEwok's proposal that Ania is someone else in a clone body; after going through 108 again I wondered if maybe she's only a brain in an HRD body? Cade was concerned about Azlyn becoming a new Darth Vader, but imagine someone in that bloodline getting the Grievous treatment... as we know is the case with Vader, Force-sensitive people that lose body parts become less Force-sensitive as they're reduced organically. What happens to that person if you take only a brain and dump it in a droid? That's just an idea, though, and not essential to the rest of my theory.

    Finally, I think that thematically Ania as a Krayt-scion makes sense. Cade's story in Legacy was all about fleeing his family's legacy of producing great Jedi (and a bit of Vader's legacy.) What if Ania's story is a fulfillment of Anakin Solo's worst fears: she is fleeing the legacy of terrible Sith in her family, including those in very recent history?
     
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  21. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    Who then is Krayts wife? As a Jedi he loved someone and grew darker and fell when he lost said love to the war. Doubt he cloned anyone but who else could he love after he already had gone dark?

    Krayt's Jedi persona I loved... I hated that this character was turned dark even more than what they did with Jacen. It was never logical for me for him to fall. Rushed and forced rather. But tying him in with Anakin and Tahiri especially is what makes me accept it more easily.

    Building from your ideas, how about this for Ania:

    She was raised by the Sith as you said and rebelled against them, but her status and ancestry protected her from being killed as you said. Thus imprisonment. But not just imprisonment: They stripped her of the Force, or blocked her, for it can return to her, as the Vong once had been blocked. This combined with a memory wipe/reconfiguration akin to what the Jedi Council once did with Revan!

    So in a way yes she is descended from Solos but lived with the Sith under another name and only took on the Ania Solo name after the wipe. It was a Sith ploy to give her that name and draw attention maybe from Solos? Some unknown plan at work? Or did she pick the name Solo for having no other and like Han she got that oprhan name... surprise it also is her real one then?

    Living out the Anakin Solo's Fear story is a nice idea. The trio, Marasiah, Cade and Ania need to meet and find out the truth. Cade a Jedi that flirted with the Dark Side. Marasiah a neutral-ish Forceuser neither Jedi nor Sith, and Ania of Sith origin. Perfect Trumvirate of the Force. Before all that though Ania would have to find out the truth and get some memories back as well as some Sithy behavioral traits. She is not evil but no lightsider either then.
     
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  22. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    @Golbolco @Thrawn McEwok

    Regarding Krayt, Tahiri and Co...

    I got an idea that may greatly expand and connect your theory to the rest of the messy family tree:

    K'Sheek was the wife of Sharad Hett, mother of A'Sharad Hett/Krayt. A human woman who had been adopted into Tusken culture. Though raised by Sand People, she was not one herself; she had been brought into their tribe when she was nearly an adult, and henceforth treated as one of their own. She previously lived as a slave before the Tusken Raiders took her. Not long after her son's birth, K'Sheek disappeared into a sand storm, leaving no trace.

    Mysterious female human slave, captured, gave birth and vanished again? There is more to her story we never learned!

    What if...

    K'Sheek is Shmi Skywalker! She was captured by slavers as a young teenager. Slavers tend to flock to Tatooine and Hutts, so it is not unreasoneable that she was on Tatooine once before Gardulla brought her and lil'Anakin back there. Note at the time, long before Anakins birth, Shmi's tale is unknown. Here as a young adult, she got stolen from the slavers by Tusken and met Sharad Hett. Love, birth. But she never wanted to stay a Tusken and thus left, too young to care for a kid herself she left it with the father. Or Slavers recaptured her.

    Is A'Sharad Hett alias Darth Krayt Anakin Skywalkers older halfbrother, a Skywalker too? And if your Tahiri theory holds, she now has Skywalker blood too through Shmi. There is another... after all.

    This also would have Shmi not be virgin birthing Anakin. Did she lie? Did she not recall it due to memory wipe or mindtrick? Did she intend to hide her Tusken past due to anti-Tusken sentiments with settlers as well as Jedi? Tragic and ironic her end is in a Tusken village later... coming full circle with her beginnings!
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  23. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    PS: The more I think on my Shmi-scovery, the more it rhymes like poetry:

    She loved a Jedi (Sharad), she loved a Sith (Palpatine). With both she had a son strong in the Force. Both sons became Jedi and fell to the dark becoming Sith. The son of the Jedi should die a Sith, the Son of the Sith should die a Jedi. Both sired lineages. Krayts dark lineage ended in the light with Tahiri. Anakin's light lineage ended in darkness: Anakin Solo dead, Jacen fallen, Jaina leaving the Jedi to found Imperial Knights unless one counts the lineage further to Cade, Marasiah and Ania and has it end in the light too after dark stints.

    Shmi, Mother of Balance.
     
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  24. Golbolco

    Golbolco Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2016
    I have a feeling that there was to be more explored with Krayt's mother K'sheek someday. It feels like an intentional mystery and maybe the intent was to have her set up as Shmi, or maybe not. I wonder: if Dark Times were allowed to keep being published, would they have explored Krayt's bounty hunting life between Republic and Legacy? The most opportune time for him to have fathered a Veila would have been during this era I feel, because the Veilas had no known connection to the Tuskens until Silven came to them, injured. In that era it makes sense if Krayt had found something out about his mother.

    In canon, is the intention that Shmi comes from Chiss space? There's lost human colonies out there, and I think Thrawn: Alliances first makes it clear that "Skywalker" is the translation for female Force-using navigators. Maybe Shmi was a human version of a Skywalker? Is "Shmi" in fact a Chiss shortened name? She would have lost her Force potential after puberty like the Chiss Skywalkers, too.

    I don't know if I love giving Shmi distinctions like being Krayt's mother or some obscure Force ability, personally. I guess I feel the same way toward it and Padme being a Fallanassi. It just doesn't feel like that's what the character is about. I can go with her having mythical ancestry; if she is the mother of the Chosen One, is she connected to the missing Mother of the Mortis Gods? (Abeloth theories inbound. No, Abeloth and Shmi are not the same person...) I also don't like Shmi and Palpatine being lovers or Palpatine being Anakin's father, although a lot of things point in that direction now.

    Looking a little more at Krayt, I get the sense that he fills the role of the mythical false prophet. He is not a Skywalker (that we know of,) he is not a particularly dedicated Jedi, and he is not viewed as a legitimate Sith Lord. Yet he fancies himself as the one who will bring true balance and order to the Galaxy. What right does he have to that? At least Biblically, the False Prophet can sometimes be interchangeable with the Antichrist who is also sometimes viewed by more dualistic religions as the literal brother of Christ. I suppose that if Krayt is Shmi's other son, then he fills that role of Antichrist if Anakin is the Chosen One (especially considering his relationship to Anakin in Republic.) Before the sequel trilogy, I thought that the resurrection of Anakin would have made a good thru-line for episodes 7, 8, and 9.
     
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  25. ColeFardreamer

    ColeFardreamer Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 24, 2013
    question though would be, which of them is the Choosen One and which the counterpart false Prophet. If a Prophecy misread could have been... Anakin may be the false one!

    Maybe a canon version of A'Sharad fathered Rey or her mother!
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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