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Lit The Geology and Paleontology thread

Discussion in 'Literature' started by darklordoftech, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    The Tuskens say that they hid in caves while the Rakata did whatever they did, and then when they left the caves it was a desert. Maybe the Tuskens, while in the caves, wrongly assumed that the Rakata were glassing the planet?
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  2. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 13, 2010
    Speaking of Tuskens, it's always struck me as odd that they're one of the franchise's most iconic races... and after forty years we still don't know their own name for themselves. All we have are two names given by their human enemies.
     
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  3. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Maybe it's "Gorfa"? Maybe they still call themselves "Kumumgah"?

    Another theory I've read is that the Jawas evolved from rodents.
     
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  4. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 13, 2010
    I've heard the term "Ghorfa" used for them before, but what's the original source for it?
     
  5. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I think "Ghorfa" was first used in The Lost City of Tatooine. It was published in July 1999 and it involves Luke and Biggs discovering ancient Tusken writing in 3 BBY.

    I wonder if @Iron_lord is aware of any earlier sources.

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lost_City_of_Tatooine
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
  6. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 13, 2010
    Wow, that's got to be one of the most obscure Star Wars-related things ever.
     
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  7. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Force Ghost star 4

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    Oct 12, 2017
    The Bombardment of Tatooine actually has an article in Wookiepedia:
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bombardment_of_Tatooine


    Around 25,200 BBY,[1] the planet Tatooine was bombarded by the Infinite Empire of the Rakata species, which was suffering a plague that was stripping them of their ability to use the Force. The Rakata believed that the native Kumumgah, who had fought the Rakata[2] ever since they had conqueredTatooine in 25,793 BBY,[3] were responsible for the plague, and the Rakatan bombardment glassed the verdant world. Over the centuries, the glass developed into a planet-wide desert, and the Kumumgah devolved into two species: the Jawas and the Tusken Raiders. By the time Revan traveled to Tatooine during his quest for the Rakatan Star Maps, only basic information about this conflict managed to survive in the form of oral history of the Tusken Raiders.[2]
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2018
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  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I think in all A'Yark's POV scenes (Kenobi in Legends, From a Certain Point of View in newcanon) she refers to "Tusken".

    Possibly they've taken the name humans gave them, as a badge of honor.
     
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  9. Hamburger_Time

    Hamburger_Time Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Dec 13, 2010
    Oh, interesting. Similar to some Native American tribes, like the Apache, who sometimes go by their most commonly-used name, even though many of those were given to them by their enemies, whether Native or European.

    Having tracked down the Lost City story, the phrasing seems to imply "Ghorfa," at the very least, was their own name once.
     
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  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Does the Lost City story mention the Kumumgah? If so, does it say that they're also ancestors of the Jawas and/or that Tatooine wasn't always a desert?
     
  11. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I suspect that some Kumungah ruins survived deep in the desert buried.
     
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  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    I got the impression from Galactic Phrase Book & Travel Guide, that Kumumgah was a name coined for the ancient residents of Tatooine, by Baobab archaeologists.

    As such, the word's use in Dawn of the Jedi, may be a case of Translation Convention.
     
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  13. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    That's intriguing. Is the Tuskens and the Jawas having a common ancestor mentioned Lost City or Phrase Book and Travel Guide?
     
  14. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Them being speculated as having a common ancestor goes right back to the ANH novelization (which also speculates that Jawas are related to humans).

    I don't have that magazine with Lost City in it. Phrase Book does state outright that they have found skulls from the common ancestors of Sand People and Jawas (page 80) and have given the name "Kumumgah" to that species.
     
  15. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Thanks. I remember the speculation in the ANH novelization.

    Does Phrase Book mention that Tatooine wasn't always a desert?
     
  16. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Not that I recall - but I'll look it up again later.
     
  17. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    There's a part of me that likes the idea that the Jedi and Sith started on Tatooine, that the first battle between them turned Tatooine into a desert, and that they left behind a Force Nexus that caused Anakin's conception.

    I also wonder: Where was the term "Tusken Raider" first used? I don't remember it being spoken in ANH.
     
  18. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    The novelization:

    The landspeeder jumped forward as Threepio engaged the accelerator, but its occupants were totally unaware that other eyes were watching as the craft increased its speed.
    Those eyes were not organic, but then, they weren't wholly mechanical, either. No one could say for certain, because no one had ever made that intimate a study of the Tusken Raiders—known less formally to the margin farmers of Tatooine simply as the sandpeople. The Tusken didn't permit close study of themselves, discouraging potential observers by methods as effective as they were uncivilized.
    A few xenologists thought they must be related to the jawas. Even fewer hypothesized that the jawas were actually the mature form of the sandpeople, but this theory was discounted by the majority of serious scientists. Both races affected tight clothing to shield them from Tatooine's twin dose of solar radiation, but there most comparisons ended. Instead of heavy woven cloaks like the jawas wore, the sandpeople wrapped themselves mummy-like in endless swathing and bandages and loose bits of cloth.
    Where the jawas feared everything, a Tusken Raider feared little. The sandpeople were larger, stronger, and far more aggressive. Fortunately for the human colonists of Tatooine, they were not very numerous and elected to pursue their nomadic existence in some of Tatooine's most desolate regions. Contact between human and Tusken, therefore, was infrequent and uneasy, and they murdered no more than a handful of humans per year. Since the human population had claimed its share of Tuskens, not always with reason, a peace of a sort existed between the two—as long as neither side gained an advantage.
     
  19. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    Thanks. I wonder whether Lucas or Foster came up with the term.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Nope.

    I think it's most likely Lucas. The comic uses the term too. If I had to speculate, it would be that Lucas gave both Marvel, and Foster, a copy of the 4th draft (other posters have said that this draft matches the book most closely) - which had the term "Tusken Raider" in it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  21. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

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    Sep 30, 2012
    I checked the screenplay, and indeed the term "Tusken Raider" is present.

    I wonder where Tatooine becoming a desert was first said to be the cause of the Kumumgah splitting into the Jawas' ancestors and the Tuskens' ancestors. As far as I know, KOTOR doesn't mention the Jawas and Tuskens having a common ancestor.
     
  22. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I suspect the desertification forced the divergent evolution of the Kumungah into two different if relatively closely related species.
     
  23. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

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    Sep 2, 2012
    It does have Revan commenting on the similarities between them and humans though.

    HK-47: "Cautionary: Master, if you mean to suggest that humanity is ancestrally linked to ancient Tatooine, you will strain his belief system to its pitiful meatbag maximum."

    Wookieepedia seems to suggest that the Star Wars Galaxies "Jawas Were Spacefarers" mission provides some kind of connection between them and Tusken.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  24. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Aug 8, 2016
    It's legends canon that the jawas and tuskens are descended from the kumungah.
     
  25. Tython Awakening

    Tython Awakening Force Ghost star 4

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    Oct 12, 2017
    Dawn of the Jedi, Issue #1 Quotes

    Context Narration:
    "Tatooine, a lush world where twin suns warm fair skies, a thriving world, where the Kumumgah live peacefully in gleaming cities along its blue seas."

    About Page #15, depending on version:
    Scene: Predor Tul'kar and Xesh are on Ancient Tatooine with Kumumgah bound in chains.
    "Primitive these, worth the journey Xesh?"
    The Kumumgah were seen as primitives by the Rakata as late as the Dawn of the Jedi period.

    Next Page:
    From the Kumumgah father: "You have won this day, but the Kumumgah will fight."
    The Kumumgah referred to themselves as the Kumumgah.

    The narration refers to them as Kumumgah. The Kumumgah also refer to themselves as the Kumumgah in the script.

    Thank you, John Ostrander and Jan Duursema@};- :choph:
     
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