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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Saga The greatest misconception about the OT

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darthvader1975, Jun 23, 2020.

  1. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 2, 2020
    Yes I know it was nominated in a lot of categories which was great but sadly it was never going to win on tens of acting or directing but it did win 5 Oscars
     
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  2. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 1, 2012
    I don’t see why it’s sad, considering the acting and directing made top 5


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  3. Darthvader1975

    Darthvader1975 Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 2, 2020
    I suppose because Sci fi fantasy back then was rarely acknowledged. Up to thst point Sci fi was very much b films that were neve taken seriously. Star wars changed that and the industry and when you consider the amount of stress that George went through to get it made it was sad or at least disappointing he didn't win.
     
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  4. Darth_Articulate

    Darth_Articulate Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 1, 2012
    Regardless, the top 5 speaks to the idea that those aspects of the movie weren’t entirely subpar.

    (acting, writing, directing, etc)
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  5. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    That's always been the case and hasn't changed up to now. When has any sci-fi or fantasy movie ever won "best picture"? 2001 could easily have won, as could Blade Runner, Alien or Aliens, Close Encounters, E.T., Terminator, Avatar, any of the LOTR films, any of the Harry Potter films etc. Those were all pretty popular and well-received by the audience. Not that I care much about Oscars anyway.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2020
  6. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 1, 2005
    Not sure it counts, but would the prequel notion that only some Jedi can survive after death count? Granted, only other Jedi seem to see them, so if they don’t learn the Force from a living Jedi then it’s a moot point.

    I’m curious to know whether people thought that meant the Emperor could survive too. He wasn’t a Jedi, but he definitely was strong with the dark side of the Force. And DE showed that some people at least did think he could come back.
     
  7. UK Sullustian

    UK Sullustian Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Nov 18, 1998
    "Emperor could survive too."

    At the time the Emperor was dead dead dead. in '83 people were a bit miffed that Star Wars finished (they were promised 9 films!) so abruptly and that Vader turned. Remember at that point he seemed to civilians to have been created just to die. I remember one film review calling him "a disappointing old ham".

    It's since then, with some of the Star Wars RPG fluff and so on, that built the Emperors reputation - And then the prequels made him who he is today.
     
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  8. Sauron_18

    Sauron_18 Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 1, 2005
    That's true, I never considered that some would've felt like the story was cut short. I only ever saw the movies years after they had aired, so for me the trilogy has always felt natural as is, and ROTJ seemed an appropriate ending. But it's interesting to get a glimpse at how it actually felt in the moment.

    It did take me a while to notice, for instance, just how different Vader was in ROTJ. He was much tamer, and seemed a sadder man than he had before. Defeated. Did fans back then want Luke to kill Vader? Was the idea that he would kill Vader, then continue to grow stronger along with the Rebellion, culminating in a final assault on the Emperor in future movies?

    We had glimpsed the Emperor back in TESB, but he did appear more vigorous and not as dramatic then. Mutated, yes, but not necessarily aged. Perhaps a glimpse at what Vader himself might've looked under the helmet. I do remember reading that Lucas had envisaged Vader and other dark siders as being mutated, twisted creatures; like the possessed Regan in The Exorcist. It would've been an interesting development to see Vader die in the third movie, with perhaps other dark siders appearing after him. Though I do wonder if that would have felt more fantasy-like; an army of elite ghouls protecting the master of them all, an uber ghoul of sorts.

    I do not know. But I do suspect that part of what JJ Abrams was doing when he started the sequel trilogy was remaking the original trilogy, in a sense, and making different choices. Case in point, Snoke was more ghoulish rather than just old. Until TLJ, that is. And the Knights of Ren would've presumably been more interesting dark siders, like the Emperor's other sinister agents in the conceptual stages of the OT.
     
  9. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

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    Nov 25, 2003
    LOTR: Return of the King did actually win best picture in 2004, as well as several other Oscars. I remember how everyone was remarking it was so unusual for a fantasy film to win best picture.
     
  10. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    You are right! I had overlooked that. Frankly I don't pay that much attention to Academy Awards, but am happy that a fantasy movie actually won "best picture". Return of the King certainly deserved it.
     
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  11. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 15, 2012
    ANH is a wonderful mix of cinema tradition, Saturday morning adventure serials of western, flash Gordon space adventure, errol flynn/Robin hood/knights of the round table elements.
    My dad at the time said obi wan was basically Gandalf that he grew up with. That's why the PT and the ST echo it so much as in generations to come it will all be the same archetype
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  12. themoth

    themoth Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 5, 2015
    Possibly the best trilogy of all time.
     
  13. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    Agreed. Certainly at the very least among the very best, though I personally do like the OT, PT and Alien trilogy as much. But LOTR certainly has fewer flaws in my eyes. I could have done without the Hobbit trilogy however
     
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  14. AEHoward33

    AEHoward33 Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 11, 2019
    The "Lord of the Rings" trilogy? I don't think so. I have too many issues with those films - even "Fellowship of the Ring", which is my favorite Jackson/Tolkien film. That's why I can deal with "The Hobbit" trilogy better. Granted, I thought three movies were a bit too much for an adaptation of that novel. But the second trilogy didn't frustrate me like "The Two Towers" and "Return of the King".
     
  15. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 10

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    May 18, 2017
    The LOTR trilogy was amazing imo.
     
  16. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    May I ask why you don't like them, especially Return of the King?
     
  17. The Lonely Lizard

    The Lonely Lizard Jedi Youngling

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    Aug 13, 2020
    The greatest misconception about the OT is that people think it’s what makes Star Wars what it is and unites and powers the fandom of Star Wars, but that’s not true. The Clone Wars, with it’s Emmy Award wins, showed that to be false.
     
  18. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 15, 2012
    I just love the irony that people blast the ST for not being planned enough whereas any planning in the OT was extremely sketchy at best. I love the ramshackleness
     
  19. The Lonely Lizard

    The Lonely Lizard Jedi Youngling

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    Aug 13, 2020
    The difference with the OT is that all the planning came from George and was able to organic, whereas Disney’s was blasted for being too test-group constrained.
     
  20. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 15, 2012
    .. He killed your father don't you know.. Sorry I'm fibbing.. I killed your father oh and that princess you snogged and rescued... Sister!! He still retconned and rewrote his story as he went along at least the ST followed the basic George Grandchildren storyline.
    All great in my book
     
  21. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    What you are totally ignoring is the fact that situations when making ANH and TFA were radically different. Have you not seen the documentary Empire of Dreams?
    Lucas not only had to fight the big studios as most refused to finance his project, there were also lots of technical problems, lots of the stuff just didn't work, everything had to be done from scratch, those computer-controlled cameras were actually invented for the movie. Still the effects were groundbreaking. We are talking about a time when there WERE no CGI. The script also had to be changed due to many factors and problems. I think that Lucas actually was close to having a heart attack during production, causing much of the cast to be even less motivated. At some point practically nobody believed the movie would even be a moderate success, let alone become the #1 blockbuster. Lucas and the entire crew managed to beat almost impossible odds. He took LOTS of risks making that movie. There were SO many problems making it that it's close to a miracle it became such a hit.
    Can you say the same for TFA? Disney had all the money they needed, no new technology had to be invented as everything was there already. They took ZERO risks because SW was already a huge success for almost 4 decades. All they had to do was slap the name "Star Wars" on a pretty boring and mediocre story with less than spectacular effects considering it's 36 years newer!
    With all those advantages on Disney's side it's actually a huge surprise that they still managed to NOT come up with something more original, let alone groundbreaking. In no respect whatsoever can TFA be considered a milestone, unlike ANH.:rolleyes:
    What exactly is so "ramshackle" about the OT anyway?
    As for the sequel, it seems that the general consensus is that it's one of the best ever, and constantly gets most votes in surveys. To this day ESB appears the be the favorite entry in the entire saga. Not mine but certainly according to a huge part of the fanbase. The same can't exactly be said about TLJ, which often appears at the very bottom of rankings. So much for the ST being THAT much better than the OT!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
  22. j-jawa3

    j-jawa3 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2004
    When Star Wars came out in 77 I was in college, i'm a Star Trek fan and my first convention was Star Trek themed. I have all my Starlog magazines and first heard about Star Wars from, then came a big convention at the L.A. convention Center, the subjects, Logans Run, Star Trek, and Sci-Fi T.V. series content. to be honest, I said "yuk" to the thought of Star Wars! I was brought up on Sci-Fi, I look backand wonder why I thought that. But I saw it on the first day and kept going back almost 20 times during that year-and after. Did I see a 'western"? no, I saw it with no misconceptions, totally fresh, expect the unexpected and it stuck to this day. I was impressed by the music scores, the scenery, those "quiet times" in the movie that the music or just silence spoke. the OT flowed as a story to me, unlike the ST, What about the PT? sort of an after thought, I liked them but the acting could have been much better. the music was good as usual, I see the PT as an experiment in movie technology. lots of new things being done. ST, a sort of remake in Disney's image of the OT, very noisy, jerky full of social and political messages, the music scores are forgetable except when you heard snipits of the original score sometimes. Characters I liked? Porgs, BB8, I did note like Snope at all, how dare they try to replace the "lovable" Emperor. Rogue One was good though. That's my simple opinion. The OT came out at a time in my life that I needed a boost and Star Wars did it.
     
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  23. darthfettus2015

    darthfettus2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Nov 15, 2012
    I know all about Empire of dreams.. If you watch the documentary with ROS it's remarkably similar
    Narrative wise its been a very similar story and the story was made up as it went along.
    Ps I'm the biggest George fan going and years of defending the PT has prepared me to defend the ST
    Pps I never said St is better than OT. I just love it all equally
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  24. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Master star 4

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    Oct 30, 2015
    Fair enough!!!
     
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  25. Reepicheep775

    Reepicheep775 Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 27, 2019
    I think ESB is overhyped as a being a "dark film" when it really isn't. It's darker than ANH for sure, but that isn't saying much. ANH is a very light-hearted movie, one of the most joyful movies I know. ESB deals with some darker ideas and ends on a downbeat note, but it's still a fun adventure film at its core.
     
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