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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Lit The Heart of the Jedi by Kenneth. C Flint

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Esh-kha, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. Dylan24601x

    Dylan24601x Jedi Knight

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2021
    I seem to remember this book being mentioned in Kevin J. Anderson's foreword for the original 'Dark Empire' tpb 1st print. Anyone able to confirm/ share that piece of text?
     
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  2. cdgodin

    cdgodin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Not to take away from your overall argument, but this was definitely available before May 4. The first mention of it I can find on the discord I'm on is April 29th, but the Amazon listing says it's been available for March so it probably just took a little while for people to find it
     
  3. Calbar

    Calbar Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 23, 2020
    I'm confused. At 6m20s in the video he specifically says that the book hasn't actually outsold other SW novels like the new Thrawn book, and that Amazon measures sales per hour.

    So why are you accusing him of "lying to stoke anger"?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  4. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2020
    I would read it again. My issue is more with YouTube in general, and the kind of outrage-bait it encourages. I said that he contributes to it, even if only with his titles (and thumbnails). A look at the comments section is enough to tell you how many people stopped paying attention beyond the title and basic premise.

    The title of the video is "WOW - A BOOTLEG Star Wars Legends Book is OUTSELLING EVERYTHING!", it doesn't exactly suggest any nuance.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  5. Noash_Retrac

    Noash_Retrac Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 14, 2006
    So I read it (quickly of course) and I enjoyed it. After all, what were Han, Leia and Luke doing between The Truce at Bakura and Jedi Prince Saga? We don't know. So awesome and it fits with Legends perfectly. So to me, this novel is canon to Legends. Silly of Bantam to not publish this and wreck the career of an author.
     
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  6. Calbar

    Calbar Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 23, 2020
    I sorted by top comment and read every comment until it stopped loading new ones when I was scrolling, and I don't see a single comment that suggests the poster thinks that the bootleg has quite literally sold more copies than any recent new SW releases. Maybe you can find one or two in there if you look really hard, but you are definitely misrepresenting the comments section by pretending it suggests what you are claiming it does.

    The majority are simply expressing excitement about the book, and a belief that an EU running parallel would be commercially viable, which is hardly the outrage or anger you claim he's stoking.

    The thumbnail is quite literally a graphic of daily Amazon rankings with an x-axis that extends no more than a few days. It's quite easy to intuit what the title means, even if there was an obligation for nuance in the title of a video (which is a ridiculous demand).
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  7. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2020
    Again, reread what I said. I didn't mean that his title itself should be nuanced, just that it should allow for nuance - not deal in absolute statements which aren't actually true. The thumbnail has no clear beginning, ending, y-axis, or any point of comparison. A cropped graph is not a useful one. I'm also not demanding anything, I am pointing out choices I disagree with - a demand would be sent directly to the relevant person.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  8. Restore the EU cut
     
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  9. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2020
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
  10. Calbar

    Calbar Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 23, 2020
    You said "A look at the comments section is enough to tell you how many people stopped paying attention beyond the title and basic premise." This is categorically a misrepresentation of the comments section of the video, so I'd like you to explain what your purpose was in doing so, given your apparent opposition to "lying to stoke anger".

    The thumbnail contains the title of the graph which is "Amazon Science Fiction adventure ratings for the Heart of the Jedi". Therefore it doesn't matter that the graph is cropped. You can tell exactly what it is referring to by virtue of its title, and the fact that the high points in the graph have lower numbers than the low points, which indicates ranking.

    It is a true statement. The book is currently outselling official releases on Amazon. That's incredible. Your issue seems to be that people could misinterpret it as the book as having sold more copies overall than new LFL books, without presenting any evidence that people have done so as a result of the video.

    And beyond that, you appear to be accusing him of doing it deliberately (lying) for a malevolent purpose (to stoke anger).
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  11. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2020
    "Outsell" does not mean what you think it does. Heart of the Jedi has been selling very quickly in the last few days, for obvious reasons, but it is certainly not "outselling everything". Words have meaning - or at least, they are supposed to.

    If you enjoy his channel, that's great, do that. His videos themselves are fair and informative, but clickbait tabloid-esque titles are really distasteful to me, and are an issue with the platform in general. He's far from the worst offender, he's just the one who came up in this thread.

    I'm not trying to stoke anger, I am stating my perspective in a forum post. No one else but you likely cares about this conversation, calm down. His channel has come up in threads before, and it's normally a long-forgotten topic by this point.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  12. Calbar

    Calbar Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 23, 2020
    Then why did you misrepresent the comments section of his video?

    It has sold more units over a period of time than every other Star Wars book, and apparently is continuing to do so, to the point where this morning it's still #4 in sci-fi. That is very much what "outselling" means.

    If KFC suddenly started selling more burgers than McDonalds you wouldn't say "uh technically they aren't outselling because McDonalds has sold more burgers historically"

    I'm just curious why you felt the need to lie in order to do so.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  13. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2020
    This analogy only fits if KFC's burgers were likely to only be available for a very short period, one time only. Heart of the Jedi is not always on the menu, it is highly scarce. You would not get an accurate comparison of two products' performance if you did not take these sorts of factors into account. Selling faster is not the same as selling more. Statistics need context.

    While I am glad that the current most popular comments are generally reasonable, there are a lot of people who clearly misunderstand how well the book is doing in comparison to others. It is not a misrepresentation for me to say that, multiple things can be true at once without necessarily being contradictory.

    The title "WOW - A BOOTLEG Star Wars Legends Book is OUTSELLING EVERYTHING!" is, at best, being selective about the truth to evoke an emotional response. This kind of thing has been done for decades with headlines, and it clearly works in driving views/clicks/sales. I can understand why it's been done, but it puts me off, personally.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  14. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    @Calbar; stop it.

    You’re only logging in to continue this argument and I’ve had enough.

    You appear to have a vested interest in an out-of-print book which is being pushed by the ‘Legends Pariah’s’. I don’t care for it.

    Before you turn on me, three things:-

    1. I don’t think this does anything for Kenneth or Joe whatsoever, quite the opposite actually. That clickbait YouTube mentality is so sensationalised it’s ridiculous and it’s not representative of either the author or the editor.

    2. I love Legends and Canon equally; I love Infinities and S-Canon; I loved the original Marvel run when it was non-Canon.

    3. If I consider you trolling, flaming or baiting I will have to act, and continuing this tangent at me will see that happen.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  15. Calbar

    Calbar Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 23, 2020
    Nope: Sinre Edit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2021
  16. Calbar

    Calbar Jedi Padawan

    Registered:
    May 23, 2020
    Sinre Edit.

    Do what you want.

    Leaving this bit because I did.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2021
  17. The Positive Fan

    The Positive Fan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2015
    So in my travels across the Internet and social media, I see a lot of people talking about how this is "real canon" (as in, canon to Legends) or that they are making it part of their personal Legends canon. And while I certainly cannot recommend or endorse purchasing this through Amazon, as far as making the story part of your personal Star Wars universe - go for it, and more power to you for doing so. I mention it because I think there are interesting implications here for people who want more Legends stories. I advocated a while ago that people who want to see EU characters and storylines continued should embrace and enhance the power of fan fiction to do so, and in its way this release of Heart of the Jedi is kind of a proof of concept. For all intents and purposes this is fan fiction writ large, and it's largely been embraced by the Legends fandom. Supernatural Encounters seems likely to go in the same direction.

    I haven't thought it entirely through of course, but I feel like it would be feasible for fans to perhaps create some sort of "EU steering committee" and then set about actually producing the kind of "canon to Legends" stories they want to see. I'm a canon guy for sure, but I'm also a "Star Wars is for everyone" guy, and I feel like something like this could give fans who currently feel disenfranchised the Star Wars they want. Or maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about? Either way, just thought I'd throw that out there.
     
  18. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    @The Positive Fan, you'd be surprised how many One Canon approaches there are out there. I'm a member of a few circles that like to pick and choose what is and isn't in 'their' continuity, and they should definitely enjoy doing so.

    YMMV, but it's fun - so fun, to see the two merged, in whatever way it's done.

    I have previously read Heart of the Jedi and notwithstanding that I don't consider this to be a good way to run things (and the Indiana Jones Lost Ark ending, well, what it is), I would have had no issues with it slotted after the Nagai-Tof War but before Shadows of Mindor in principle.
     
  19. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    [face_rofl] Just reading the revised version of this thread's recent posts.
     
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  20. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    He did give me permission... :p
     
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  21. SheaHublin

    SheaHublin Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2008
    Is there any way to send money directly to Mr. Flint? I'd love to do so, as I had (previously) read Heart and greatly enjoyed it. I went ahead and bought two copies, not just to have an easy physical edition but also because this will likely be a fairly notorious future collectable. I'm really amazed that Amazon not only allowed this listing but that is was (still is?) up for so long. One would think that if their automatic filters didn't catch it, then The Mouse would have seen it and taken it down.
     
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  22. Jedimarine

    Jedimarine Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2001
    I find it incredible and incredulous that a novel was written to completion, under contract, and they NEVER got it to the shelves.

    I mean, it is a STAR WARS book. Back in those days, the cover alone would've put it on the best seller list.

    How many more are out there?
     
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  23. iFrankenstein

    iFrankenstein Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2020
    The Big Switch (also on Joe’s site), Escape from Dagu, and Jedi Storm were all confirmed to have completed manuscripts.
     
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  24. VexedAtVohai

    VexedAtVohai Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 4, 2020
    I wonder if Lucasfilm/Del Rey might consider putting Escape from Dagu out to test the waters, after what's happened with Heart of the Jedi.
     
  25. Sinrebirth

    Sinrebirth Mod-Emperor of the EUC, Lit, RPF and SWC star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 15, 2004
    I’m only praying for Sword of the Jedi to one day emerge.