main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Reviews Books The JC Lit Reviews Special: ALLEGIANCE (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Havac , Jan 27, 2007.

  1. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    I focused on the issues, but as I mentioned in the review, it was still a fun read with some interesting ideas. It was just that the lack of real oomph stood out to me and was what I felt was most worthy of commenting on.
     
  2. The_Four_Dot_Elipsis

    The_Four_Dot_Elipsis Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2005
    God, I was kind. I don't suppose we allow for revisionest scores, do we? :p
     
  3. Adam_Bosman

    Adam_Bosman Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 30, 2007
    You were REALLY kind, dude :)
     
  4. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    Ditto.
     
  5. PadmeA_Panties

    PadmeA_Panties Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Just finished Allegiance.

    6/10.

    Thats being pretty generous I suppose, and I would have to give it the 6 instead of nearly-going with my initial gut-feeling of a 3 mainly due to some of the Stormtrooper scenes.

    Problems:

    Zahn. Zahn making Mara on-par with Vader. Stupid.
    Stormtroopers being the be-all-end-all. I know if you're going to use Stormies, you want them at their peak, but then lets watch ANH... yea, they get their arses handed to them. Lets watch ROTJ.... yea, same.

    If a Stormie gets hit in the leg in ANH and dies... I want to know how LaRone gets hit in the chestplate and just staggers. I understand why Zahn did it, but its still ridiculous due to ANH.
     
  6. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    ... And a 6 is also being nice.

    I remember Zahn being asked in an interview why his characters are always the best at what they do. His reply was, well of course they're the best, because they're in the top ranks...

    But those stormies weren't top rank. And still he wrote them all like they were Han Solo himself.

    4/10



     
  7. PadmeA_Panties

    PadmeA_Panties Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Allegiance also does a good bit of 'retconning' or, with the case of Zahn its more 'Zahnconning' since he retcons the universe in the way he wants it to be portrayed.

    Like Mara saying to the stormies: "There's only one Hand." Even though there has been others mentioned/named/shown in other books/sources.
     
  8. Kaje

    Kaje Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2005
    Yes, but we've known all along that Mara had no knowledge of those other Emperor's Hands. She believed she was the only one.
     
  9. PadmeA_Panties

    PadmeA_Panties Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 2003
    Where was this stated or shown?
     
  10. _Catherine_

    _Catherine_ Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 16, 2007
    That's been the case from the beginning. In either HttE or DFR, Thrawn tells Mara that there were other Hands and she doesn't believe him.
     
  11. Kaje

    Kaje Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 29, 2005
    Well, most recently, in Mara's story in the Essential Guide to the Force. But I know it's been stated before. Thrawn even stated that there were probably others, and Mara refused to believe it. "The Emperor's Pawns" article stated it as well.
     
  12. NelanisGhost

    NelanisGhost Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Mara has an immense ego. But Palpatine liked blowing smoke up people's butts. It was more effective then threats. Since he ran the whole show, there never was anyway of knowing how much was real, or how skilled you really were. Mara is too arrogant to believe she was just a run of the mill assassin. She was never on par with Vader, it's impossible. She doesn't know anything about the Sith at all. How could she be on par with the apprentice?

    Criticize the work, not the person.
     
  13. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 266.4/40 = 6.66
     
  14. MistrX

    MistrX Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 20, 2006
    They do pretty well in the first few minutes. It's only later when they go up against the character shields that they falter.
     
  15. Sniper_Wolf

    Sniper_Wolf Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2002
    Finished this after a three day forensics trip.

    Unlike my esteme collegue Excellence I do not mind an OT era yarn every now and then.

    The Big Three did not need to be in this novel, but this is nowhere near as blatant as Outbound Flight's extraneous first fourth. Someone at least did some editing.

    The droids not showing up is not an issue to me since they would cludder up the novel.

    The Stormtroopers actually doing something over their ill feelings towards Palpatine instead of hundred of pages of passive complaining in the Republic Commando novels is a nice change.

    Vader's characterization is atrocious. Zahn cannot write Vader at all.

    Mara Jade is now beyond any doubt a Mary Sue. The supposedly green eighteen year-old does the exact same level of Force trickery she does when Darth Stupid kills her four decades later. Also apparently she can override almost any other military officer. Excuse me as I laugh.

    Leia and Luke were ok. Han's characterization not so much. His nicknames for Leia were blown out of proportion in comparison to what Harrison Ford said in the OT. Some of the ones on paper were a bit cringeworthy.

    Jedi Vince's wording of Deus ex Obi-Wan sums up my views on that Force ghost. Again this is another plot used in the films that is overused. Rewatch Empire. You can see that Luke is shocked by Obi-Wan's ghost. More is not better sometimes. This is a case of it.

    Zahn is not an engaging writer at all. His adverb and idiom usage is at times laughably bad. I did not see any "he replied unblinkly" in this one, but it was not that hot.

    Much like when I reviewed Outbound Flight almost two years ago Allegiance, despite what I listed and my disagreement with Timothy Zahn's inerpretation of Star Wars, it is better than most of the current EU. I'd rather read this than Traviss' passivity or Denning's illogical blunderings.

    Despite the author's attempt to hang on to his aging views of Star Wars this is a passable read. Not brilliant yet not utterly terrible. I round it up to a 6/10
     
  16. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 272.4/41 = 6.64
     
  17. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Unlock and bump.
     
  18. Darth_Foo

    Darth_Foo Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2003
    thanks Havac

    what i liked:
    the characters. Hand of Judgment troopers were both a good idea and good execution. some say that luke and vader are written poorly but i disagree. luke is just beginning to unlearn everything he knows. unfortunate he isn't in it more. i can see how some think mara shows up vader but i think its more of a 'shes lucky to be alive' scenario. he just happened to cool down after that one attack. really liked the theme of honor, duty, and allegiance. Larone's thoughts on jade were perfect: that shes naive about how the empire really works. nice balance to her POV.

    what i didn't like:
    with so much going on the pages started to rack up quickly. this in itself isn't bad but, honestly, it seemed like TZ intended it to be some 50-100 pages longer but had to trim it down. i dunno guess the ending seemed rushed. also the big 3 see a battle happening then disappear until the last few pages.

    not as good as TZ's other SW work but little is.

    7/10
     
  19. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 279.4/42 = 6.65
     
  20. Chimpo_the_Sith

    Chimpo_the_Sith Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 15, 2003
    Since I re-read it recently I'll give my score: 8/10
     
  21. DarthUr

    DarthUr Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 14, 2008
    I've posted elsewhere about why I like this book so I won't go into deep detail again.

    Let's just say it's an easy read, a fun read, that felt like Original Trilogy Star Wars for the first time in a long while, and that the characters felt competent and likable without being Mary Sues -- yes, including Mara Jade. The fact that all characters went through the whole plot with limited information and largely misled about each other's goals was fun and TZ pulled it off pretty neatly. And it felt refreshingly free of all the issues with which much of the "main" SW EU book series so far have been fraught. (No Mandalorians!)

    8/10.
     
  22. Havac

    Havac Former Moderator star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Average score: 295.4/44 = 6.71
     
  23. Katana_Geldar

    Katana_Geldar Jedi Grand Master star 8

    Registered:
    Mar 3, 2003
    8/10 and here's the review I posted on Amazon which pretty much says everything I love about this book.



    Zahn's back doing what we love best
    HE'S BACK!! Those were my very thoughts when I finished reading the very first sentence of the very first page. After the hack job that's been done with Jacen at the latter end of Star Wars continuity, it's refreshing to see an old master like Timothy Zahn show what the Expanded Universe is all about.

    For the first time since 'By the Emperor's Hand', we see a young Mara Jade as the Emperor's hand. Luke is the lovable farm boy that we knew from the movies, blissfully unaware of his paternity. Han is still the scoundrel we know and love, consistently getting under Leia's skin (and we love him for it). And Vader is his Darthiest, on his search for Luke Skywalker which takes him...no I won't tell you.

    Then there's Daric LaRone, a stormtrooper who goes to the planet Teardrop to "shoot some Rebels" and ends up in the middle of something that makes him think back to Alderaan. One thing leads to another, then he's deserted and on the run from the Empire.

    'Allegiance' is the operative word here and we see it through the eyes of four different characters. Mara Jade, whose view of the Empire is rather naive and to an extent explains her when she first appears in Heir to the Empire. Han Solo, not really wanting to join the Rebellion yet not wanting to leave Leia. He also resents being sent off on missions by Mon Mothma as if he IS part of the Alliance. There's Daric LaRone and his crew, mentioned above. And finally Disra who we met in Spectre of the Past, willing to play both sides of the fence whenever it suits him.

    Yet this is only the tip of the novel. Also there are the fight scenes, the space battles (including a few GREAT ones on the Falcon) and some very, very interesting espionage sequences from Mara. Plus there's the edding, which I won't spoil as I think it's one of his best yet (barring Outbound Flight).

    Hopefully after this novel Zahn will write the one I have long been waiting for him to do: a Clone Wars one with young Pellaeon.


    Long live the Zahnverse! =D=
     
  24. Tyber_Zahn

    Tyber_Zahn Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2008
    In CN1 it is suggested that most of the stormtroopers you see drop in the films are merely just stunned not actually dead.
     
  25. Stymi

    Stymi Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2002
    Surprised so many didn't like it.

    8.75