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JCC The JCC Fascism Thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Lord Vivec, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Come here to discuss all things fascism! Favorite form of fascism from history? Complain about internet fascism (Jello banned me once nevar forget). Discuss fascist theory.

    I'll start off. What's your favorite current fascist organization? The Golden Dawn/Hungarian Dawn? The Svoboda protestors in the Ukraine? The anti-warp drive science JCCers?
     
  2. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    fascists make the best writers because fascism is all about aesthetics. true story
     
  3. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    The film version of Starship Troopers emitted much of the crucial and fun fascism of Robert A Heinlein's original novel, much to the fraternal disappointment of many fascists all over the world.
     
    Saintheart likes this.
  4. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    robert a heinlein is actually a good example of a crappy fascist writer. verhoevan's actively anti-fascist satire film far outstrips the original novel in both entertainment value and artistic merit
     
    JoinTheSchwarz and Frank T. like this.
  5. jp-30

    jp-30 Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2000
    But we got NPH in tight leather, so all's well that ends well.
     
    DarthTunick likes this.
  6. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    The only thing I have to say about this is if more American citizens don't stand up to all corrupt politicians (including but not limited to the President), the United States will become a facist country very, very soon. That's not what the Founders wanted, and "we the people" have a responsibility to prevent it.
     
  7. dp4m

    dp4m Also a Narc star 10

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2001
  8. Adam of Nuchtern

    Adam of Nuchtern Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    Yeah, but that's just something idiots say to disguise how little they understand politics.

    Wait, you are quoting some raving lunatic here right?
     
  10. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    No, what I said is what I truly believe. Far too many politicians are so worried about arbitrary "offense" instead of protecting our own borders and national heritage. Its all sourced in selfish Marxist crap, and if something doesn't change soon, we truly are doomed as a country.
     
  11. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002

    i dont think you know what "fascism" is, dawg. look into it. seems like you might like it

    because lemme tell you, if there's two things fascists hate, its marxism and the erosion of national identity
     
  12. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    Well, a few points;

    1) When you talked about fascism and I said your remarks were typical of someone who didn't understand politics, you said it was what you believe and called it "Marxist crap". Since only the politically ignorant confuse Marxism and Fascism, I don't understand why you're objecting other than to cement the fact you're quite wrong?

    2) Isn't the most damaging force now in America the anti-science, anti-women, anti-intellectual, pro-Christian conservative movement? Yes, yes it is.
     
  13. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    I don't think it's fair to call them anti-women. I think they're anti-people, women just get the brunt of it.
     
  14. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    How in the name of all that is holy did you pass high school history? Oh, you live in America... Never mind.
     
    SithLordDarthRichie likes this.
  15. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    I looked up facism, because I'd heard the term but wasn't too familiar with it. The primary meaning in the dictionary is "a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government". I definitely disagree with that, whether its from an atheist or a super-religious zealot. I don't want a hypocritical theocracy (think "Escape from L.A."), but I don't want an all-secular society, either.

    There's plenty of Christians who are not against science, just the naturalistic worldview used by most atheists and anti-theists. Jesus was a very strong supporter of women, treating them far better than anyone else did in His earthly ministry. The very practice of Christian apologetics is rooted in using the intellect to defend a Biblical worldview.
     
  17. mrsvos

    mrsvos Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2005
    There's nothing fascist about Golden Dawn. They're just a bunch of petty snobs. The esoteric one, not the Greek one, that is. Why did they steal their name?
     
  18. mrsvos

    mrsvos Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 18, 2005
  19. darthcaedus1138

    darthcaedus1138 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Hag.
     
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    This.

    We allied ourselves with the fascist dictator Francisco Franco in the 50s because he was anti-communist. I'm pretty sure that not only did American conservatives support this alliance, but they currently use both fascism and communism in the same sentence in the absurd belief that "fascism" and "communism" both mean "stuff American conservatives don't like."

    It's almost as fun as their drawing Hitler 'staches on Obama or pretending they had this in-depth conversation with Ben Franklin over croissants and know Exactly. What. Old. Ben. Wanted.

    (Incidentally, modern Christian conservatives would actually hate old Ben. Dude got around. There's probably hellfire and damnation waiting for him by that god who loves people so much he sets them on fire to show it.)

    And Jesus treated women better than his contemporaries who sold off their daughters for goats and stoned women for having sex! YAY JAYZUS! I'm sure that indicates that his current followers never oppress women AT ALL. [face_laugh]

    Sorry, you'd have an easier time convincing me that cats are herbivores, Anakin Skywalker is a real dude and the Earth was created in 1971.
     
  21. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    As I've said before, the abuse of a standard does not automatically warrant its abandonment.
     
  22. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    > There's plenty of Christians who are not against science, just the naturalistic worldview used by most atheists and anti-theists

    1) We're not talking about all Christians. We're talking about Christian conservatives.

    2) a naturalist worldview is imperative to modern science.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  23. Point Given

    Point Given Manager Emeritus/Baseball Draft WINNA star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    A good portion of the founders wanted slavery and were active slave holders, others were uncomfortable but kept their slaves because "it'll cost me money and those blacks are too uncivilized to live without our noble white help" and the rest acquiesced to slavery instead of taking the others to task over it.


    Lol. So without prior knowledge until just now, you decided to spout off your ill-informed opinion.

    Well, I guess that's about par for the course for the U.S. in terms of discourse nowadays..
     
    MrZAP, Lord Vivec, RC-1991 and 2 others like this.
  24. poor yorick

    poor yorick Ex-Mod star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Well, there's no real shame in admitting you don't know about something, so long as you don't go around making assertions about the thing you don't know. Speaking seriously--you really seem to enjoy talking about religion, politics, and philosophy. That's great, so do I. Now you just need to fill in the gaps in your knowledge base. Take some continuing ed community college courses--most of them are pretty cheap. Udemy even has a "Introduction to Philosophy - from Ancient Greece to Today" class online for $9. Try asking quesitons of people around here who have more experience, instead of making uninformed arguments that make you look silly.
     
  25. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    [link=http://www.orwell.ru/library/articles/As_I_Please/english/efasc]Relevant[/link]. Even in the 40s, people were misusing the word fascism.


    That's not a good definition. It's closer to -- but not entirely -- "totalitarian," in which all aspects of people's lives are controlled. Fascism, on the other hand, is a grassroots populist movement based on subservience to the state, hyper-nationalism, dislike of both Marxism and aristocracy, etc.

    The oft-feared "political correctness" that you alluded to earlier couldn't be further from fascism. As Orwell complained a long time ago, you can't just label everything you dislike "fascist" or the word loses all useful meaning.

    I'm far from an expert, but it's not immediately clear that Franco was anything but a fascist in name. He used and co-opted the Falangist movement to get into power, but he seemed like a general socially conservative despot. His restoration of the Spanish monarchy wasn't really a fascist move: I think he just co-opted and used their movement to get into power, but then put a lot of traditionally arch-conservative folks on top while the fascists were all on the bottom. I think he was just more a straightforward military dictator (or at least, transitioned to one -- he was certainly isolated by the West after WWII because of the perception that he was fascist until, as you say, we decided his anti-communism made him a good buddy-buddy for us).

    quote]It's almost as fun as their drawing Hitler 'staches on Obama or pretending they had this in-depth conversation with Ben Franklin over croissants and know Exactly. What. Old. Ben. Wanted.[/quote]

    Ben Franklin hated the Constitution anyway, so they'd probably like him in that regard.
     
  26. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I have 24 semester hours in bachelors-level Spanish courses; my knowledge of Franco comes from the Spanish history course I took. It's been about 15 years and I may not have gotten a comprehensive picture then so I won't claim expertise either.

    American right-wingers today conflating fascism and Marxism is still funny though, in a "laugh so you won't beat your head against a wall" way.
     
  27. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    Political correctness is rooted in the Marxist/Communist concept of perennial victimhood. Its all about assigning blame to anyone but yourself, thus avoiding personal responsibility. This kind of thinking leads to situations like suing McDonald's over a coffee spill, or doing the same to Ford Motors because your own reckless driving resulted in a car crash. The same stuff has resulted in people honestly believing they have an inherent right to be happy at others' expense (financial and otherwise), and saying they should never be exposed to anything they disagree with.

    Oddly enough, those who cry foul over being arbitrarily "offended" don't seem to care about how their own remarks and tactics might affect others. Where's the tolerance in that?