Characters The Jedi Way - Jedi Discussion Thread - Jedi and the Force in The Clone Wars

I don't think the Jedi "took" Anakin; Qui-Gon just did some legal manuvering.

 

That's not what I meant by "take". I was referring to how ardavenport said the Order doesn't typically "take" (read: initiate) Force-sensitive individuals after a certain age, regardless of midichlorian count (which, in Anakin's case, was exceptional). I was pointing out that the Order decided to accept him in the end, anyway.

 

Aaaaaaaaaaah, but that's the whole point of defining the limitations of Jedi (or other characters). Once you have the boundaries of what they're supposed to do and NOT do, then you know where the conflict might be and, if the story goes there, trouble for the characters.

Of course, one can go a bit far afield. There really is an infinite list of things that Jedi are probably not supposed to do that could include:

- clipping toenails on top of the Temple
- finding out how many Jedi will fit in a lift (any species)
- sending any messages that include dead anything
- wearing advertising logos
- snapping rubber bands (when not on duty)
- graffiti
- using the Force to fling dirty socks into the dirty clothes receptacle

Actually, that last one might be permitted. Obi-Wan very casually used the Force to retrieve his star map in ATOC, so I suppose some minor uses are fine. Though I don't know why Anakin retrieving fruit at the dinner table would bug Obi-Wan. Maybe that has more to do with table manners than unacceptable uses of the Force.

 

I thought the projected grumpiness about the fruit would probably be because Anakin was showing off.

I figure Jedi would be okay with finding out how many of them could fit in an elevator as long as they were not interering with the use of the elevator by people who were actually trying to get somewhere. Alarming people by suddenly and unnecessarily presenting them with an elevator stuffed to the gills with Jedi might also be frowned upon, although if it happened I'm sure the Jedi in question would be supposed to respond with polite aplomb and explain that there was no cause for alarm.

And get out of the way already.

 

In response to a slightly earlier point: Zett Jukassa was apparently born Warpoc Skamini. I don't know why the Jedi changed his name, but apparently it does happen.

Children-taking: I agree that it's probably some form of adoption.

I do have to say the image of Jedi packed into an elevator made me burst out laughing.

As for casual uses of the Force, while I can see why it might not be encouraged, I can also see why it might be. The more you practise something, the better you can do it. With telekinesis, the more control, the better- else things could turn deadly. With younglings, on the other hand, I think it would be strictly monitored since they are so young. Furthermore, I think it varies master by master. In the USJS Normality thread, my character Tana uses telekinesis without a second thought because her master lets her, but the other padawans don't.

 

For some reason, the image of an elevator stuffed with Jedi is just hilarious!

 

I have to agree.

I suppose we'll have to think of some bizzare Jedi exercise where they might actually try it.

And I also agree that Anakin was showing off, so Obi-Wan would not be happy, but I have a feeling that using the Force at the dinner table among non-Jedi might also be considered bad manners.

That makes sense. Especially for things like opening doors or minor telekenisis; the more they practice the better. And I think a lot of Jedi skills require continual practice to keep them up. But Padawans might have more rules to follow when they should use the Force, so they can also practice their judgement.

 

Argh, the plotbunnies! I don't have time for you . . . .


Yes, Padawans would have rules about Force usage taught to them - and also ways that each rule would have exceptions. There's a difference between academic discussions and practice, and actual use in real life situations.

 

There's actually a really neat bit in Jedi vs. Sith about telekinesis. While I confess to some bias, I don't like it just because it has Dooku in it. It has him giving a lecture on the subject, which he chooses to do by telling the kids about a lesson Yoda taught him when he was seven. Or, well, a couple of lessons; it is Yoda, after all. There's one about burdens being as heavy as we think they are, which in the literal sense was related to the whole "Size matters not" thing with Luke and the X-Wing.

The one more relevant to the appropriate use of telekinesis, here, is that it's "more than just a Jedi's personal tractor beam." In the case in question, the item being moved was a plant, and part of the process of moving it safely involved thinking of it as a whole and as something else living, to which the Force connected the Jedi. Thinking back (forward, for the characters, but whatever) to Yoda's lessons for Luke, where he's emphasizing that the Force connects not only living things but, say, a rock... I think perhaps it's supposed to be important to respect the things you encounter, not necessarily as alive (since a lot of them aren't) but as part of the universe. So there's supposed to be a philosophical component, or a right attitude.

Which fits.

 

Good point. I had to go back and look at that story from Dooku in the Jedi Vs. Sith book. It's a nice little tale about how recognizing the connections between things and the universe affects how you use the Force.

I suppose that might be a good lead in to a new topic:

How do Jedi connect to and perceive the Force? How do you write it?

In my fics I use Luke's statement in ANH to Ben, "I could almost see the remote," as my guide. I write Jedi Force perceptions as a shadow on the five senses, similar to but distinct from them, too. I imagine that Jedi have to 'quiet their minds' and meditate for training to be able to distinguish the Force from the day to day clutter of everyday thinking. And without that training and discipline Jedi would lose their 'powers'......well not exactly lose their Force abilities, but they would get 'flabby' and 'out of shape'. A strict diet of Force training would bring them back up to par. Luke proved that you did not need to be trained from childhood to become proficient, though he did have a lot of natural talent to begin with.

 

I don't think all Jedi percieved things exactly the same way. I would think the ways to percieve the Force could be as varied as those who practiced the Jedi arts.

I have a Jedi OC who percieves the flow of the force as a song, and refers to using it as dancing to that song.

 

I agree, and I like that image a lot. I have an odd habit of referring to it in watery terms, but I think I would try to vary it from Jedi to Jedi.... River, ocean, light, wind, plants, starfire, etc. Um... gravity and relative frames of motion. That's more when they're paying attention to the Force as the Force, though; when I'm also working with the standard senses, I might work it in with those as the metaphor. The sense of balance is especially handy sometimes. Being deprived of the Force might be like zero-g, in a way; the dark side might, on some Jedi, have an effect (mental, moral, physical, or combinations thereof ) somewhat like pressure or infection on the inner ear, ranging around pain, nausea, vertigo, grumpiness, and falling over.

 

With many different Force powers and not all Jedi having mastered the same (see for instance Corran Horn) I write my Oc's with different Force powers. My healers have a strong sense when a friend of them is injured. And healing is something that has been with them since their infancy.

 

That's exactly what I think. One OC of mine hears the Force as indistinct whispers, more percieving tone than actual words.

 

Excellent point! I usually think about what the baseline would be for all Jedi, but there would have to be variations in different abilities and especially in how they see the Force. Some Jedi might primarily feel the Force through touch, or temperature. Others might see a 'glow'. It might be very different for other species, too.

I'm never quite sure how far to take those variations in abilities. Do Jedi specialize much? According to some things in the Star Wars Visual Dictionary about Jedi Council members they do, but I always want to portray Jedi as generalists.

One thing I really wonder about is what the difference in Force-perception between Anakin and Obi-Wan? Or Obi-Wan and Luke?

Obi-Wan was trained from birth. But Anakin and Luke didn't start training until their perceptions of the world were set, without the Force. Luke didn't start until he was an adult. Obi-Wan would not have any memories of NOT perceiving the Force.

 

Ooh . . . Force perception. It definitely varies Jedi to Jedi - just look at Obi-Wan and Anakin and how their relationship to the Force is described in the RotS novelization. As for me, species to species and individual to individual. One undeveloped OC in my head hears it as music (imagine the dark, intense moments ), and yet another views it as currents of light.

Specialization in Jedi? Definitely. If anything, Obi-Wan and Anakin are the generalists (diplomats, fighter, and everything in between). I do accept the idea that about two-thirds of the Order are generalists, but the other third has some speciality. Undercover work, diplomacy, warrior, etc. It would have to depend on personality, abilities within the Force, and training.

And just as an aside to the discussion, I think I might finally understand my version of the Force (with the help of a little sci-fi show called Babylon 5): The Force is the universe talking to those who can understand it, and showing them something far greater than any one person can ever be.

 

I believe that Jedi at least have one specialization: Cin Drallig is a Lightsaber Instructor and specializes in Lightsaber combat; Barriss Offee specializes in healing, and Yarael Poof was a master of the Jedi Mind Trick.

 

Exactly! And all good stories are about conflict, internal and external. It's character driven, but through circumstances, overcoming great odds or obsticles. Conflict!

 

Ah, but here's another thing... just because someone has not been trained in the Jedi way doesn't mean they don't percieve the Force. I think if you are Force sensitive, you do percieve it. You may not understand it, but you do percieve it. Kind of like I can see Arabic or Chinese or other alphabets of other languages besides English, but I don't understand it. Untrained sensitives probably would be hyper-perceptive in one way or another, but it would be put down to having hunches or something.

But I agree, the way Luke and Anakin percieved things would probably be much different than how someone who was raised trained in the Force. In some ways it might even give Luke or Anakin an advantage because they can see things from a different percpective. The Jedi of the old order don't know what it is like to be 'normal', whereas Luke and Anakin did, sort of.

 

I think that each of the force organizations we have come across have their own views on the force.

 

Of course, but we're talking about an individual view. There's the overall view that the Jedi would have, which would vary from what the Sith or other organizations that weren't quite so opposite. But the Force could have a different feel... or flow... or however you wish to describe it to each individual that made up the whole.

Kind of like the blind men describing an elephant.

 

I always picture the way the Jedi and the Sith perceive the Force as basically the same, but the way they use it is vastly different. The Jedi use the Force through calm control. The Sith use the Force through passion. I actually agree with Palpatine that the Jedi and Sith are actually very similar, with their biggest differences being in their methods.

I sort of wonder what other organizations use the Force? In the Saga you just see the Jedi and Sith who have a monopoly on Force users. Especially if the Jedi are picking them out from birth in the Republic that would squeeze out any other organization.

Very true, Luke and Anakin would have a good idea of that 'normal' would be, whereas Yoda and Obi-Wan wouldn't.......unless Jedi also train in not using the Force? Just so they know what it feels like?

 

I think with Luke and Anakin as opposed to people who were Jedi from age two or something, the difference might be a bit like the difference between someone with perfect pitch who only occasionally heard music for the first several years of life, and someone who grew up in a family that sings all the time and actually teaches music.

 

Actually, I view the Sith as believing the Force is a tool for them to use to get what they want while the Jedi see themselves as tools for the Force.

 

I think it may be possible to draw stark contradictions. The Jedi see the Force as an absolution. They see it as what makes the universe alive. It truly defines them. The Sith see the Force as a tool. It is very often meant to be explored and controlled. Different ideas could certainly alter perception, even at the msot basic levels.