ST The Knights of Ren talk only

The Knights of Ren are full of missed potential.
They get their first full appearance in IX after a brief glimpse in a vision in VII.
For some reason, Ben with a blaster and the force is in a lot of danger from them. But somehow once he gets a saber, he more or less stomps them.
He struggled more (with a saber that is) against the Elite Praetorian Guard, and they aren't force-sensitive. Granted, TFA/TLJ Kylo isn't quite his peak.
The Knights should've been more capable and had some dialogue.

 

I think it makes sense that Ben would beat them since only the strongest amongst them could challenge the leader and claim the title of 'Ren' for themselves.

Considering he takes out both of the long-range Knights at the beginning with a single swing, he probably knows all of their strategies and tactics having fought alongside them for years as well.

 

Its doesn't reflect well on the KOR though... it just makes them look weak. In reality, their best moment was standing behind Kylo in the rain in a 2 second image.

 

There was a Knights of Ren raid Vader's castle in the most recent issue of Crimson Reign, it was pretty cool. Ever since I saw the Lego Star Wars Halloween Special when Christen Slater voiced Ren, that's how I always picture he sounds. Works for me!

 

The KOR have more fun personalities in the EU. In the ST, they're just the cool-looking silent types who just stand there.

 

Hmmm, that reminds me of someone...

 

After all this time I finally worked o this thread title :

The Knights of Ren "Talk only" well they Don't Talk

 

I hold to it that the KOR were originally supposed to be Luke's students but were changed because that would take away from Kylo's story plus it would need some more explaining.
I agree that there was just too many characters and many should have stayed in the background which means they would be even more popular. But many characters weren't that interesting and then the time that should have been spent developing the KOR , maybe as secret Sith loyalist when there was not to be any Sith or have them as Luke's students, would have been better time spent in my opinion. Instead we got Canto Bight or Holdo maneuvers and mutinies with Purple hair ladies.
I was happy to get them in TROS at least and they had a fight scene albeit brief.

 

I don't know what they're like in the EU, but in the films the Knights of Ren are a great big irrelevancy.

 

Did anyone ever find out where this idea about Sidious funding pirates was from?

 

The Knights of Ren are the ST in a nutshell. So much wasted potential.

 

Sounds like that fanmade treatment for Episode 3 from the '80s.

https://www.trashcompod.com/fall-of...nns-infamous-fan-script-with-dr-john-l-flynn/

"Still enraged from Valarium’s carelessness, Palpatine plots a unique political move that will destroy Lady Arcadia’s influence with the Merchanter’s Guild AND further cement his power with commerce and industry. He first frees a handful of pirates and bribes them to raid the Spice Mines and Mineral Springs; he then orders his personal troops to eliminate the pirates and guard – as well as regulate – the shipping lanes."

 

i like the kor, i think its a nice addition to the still minor collection of non-jedi and non-sith force users of current canon. its a shame however that Kylo is not a knight of ren, it feels weird because even after these years its still unclear what kylo is.. a dark jedi? fallen jedi? sith? would've been better if was just one of the Ren, i think

 

Am I right in saying that they originally had a larger role in TFA? Or have I imagined that? Ultimately by the time we get to see them in ROS they are pointless and a missed opportunity. We all think we can do a better job sometimes as writers,but they could have been part of Kylo's sith cult, hunting down sith artefacts, obsessed with Vader, anything along those lines would have been better than what we actually go. When you think about it, we got absolutely nothing in the films about them and theres no pay off whatsoever, theres nothing thats been earned.

 

lmao you guys are so difficult

except they are part of kylo's cult, they hunt down artefacts also. that kinda of thing didnt have any role in the movie, that wasnt the focus

also we got 30 YEARS of lore to yet explore, we havent seen nothing yet. sure lucasfilm can pull an animated series pre TROS that will make you feel better about the movie, specially if they are putting Filoni there

stop being negative, lmao, remember the prequels were panned when they came out, now they are seen as a little better because of aditional canon material.

 

None of which is explained in the films. The films handle them poorly IMO. And that should be the focus, the films, there will be many more people like me, who have no clue who these guys are and what they do. It shouldn’t take supplementary material to explain this. That means they haven’t done their job with the films and in the case of KOR they didn’t. You’re saying LMAO, yet you’re making fun of someone who doesn’t follow the supplementary material and who would never know this about KOR because the films didn’t do them justice. Take the ST in its own right as a standalone piece of work and tell me they did a good job of letting the audience know who these guys were and what they meant to the story.

 

That we haven't seen it yet doesn't argue in favor at all of the movies. They're the reason we didn't see it in the movies. Additional material won't change that. At best, it will sooth the emotions on the lack of information. But "wait and see" isn't an argument. I think you seem, to me, to essentially be saying that people should never have a dissenting opinion about something, because "more stuff will come out". I think it's the same excuse used for the ST and none of that got improved really. I feel like this is basically, "just don't complain and accept everything and assume it'll get good".

Why don't you stop telling people not to be negative? Do you decide what people should be? I think using the PT is an empty argument, because the additional stuff doesn't make the movies better either way and I think it actually doesn't really totally work in connection with the PT. I think the movies work more without almost all of Anakin's TCW character. I think that's a more jockish, lacking emotional vulnerability version of this character.

LORD willing, you don't have the right, and neither does Disney, to ask audiences to consume their content blindly because it might get explained later. You can't even use it as a current example. TCW came out a little over 3 years after ROTS. It's been almost 4 years since the ST ended. Nothing they've released has made that story retroactively better.

 

He's a Knight of Ren, he leaves the Jedi and joins them because he feels at home with their ideology to do as they please without the morality of right or wrong. I'd go as far to say that everything about the Knights of Ren ultimately has to fall in line with Kylo Ren and who he is since it all descends from him in concept.

I'd say the problem is that all of the KoR lore was made post-ST, and everything in the films takes place during a time when Kylo is being secretly groomed to be Sith heir by Snoke, Palpatine, and the Sith Eternal. I agree that it's irritating that it's not touched on or expressed in the films, but hopefully one day we'll get to see his time with them.

 

You know we are discussing star wars, right? This franchise traditionally is composed of movies, shows, books, comics, all of which come together to form a bigger story. It's been like that since the days of the expanded universe in the 80s and 90s. Concepts like the sith were introduced in non-movie material before the prequels, for instance. So it's natural that some stuff is left out. Also, I want to point out that you're claiming that the movies "didn't explain them enough" or "didn't do them justice". How do you measure what's justice for a character or what's enough exposition or action for them? To me they did them, well, enough justice. Yeah they could have been used more, sure. Dang, they could've had scenes in Episode 4 of Luke battling Vader with lightsabers and stuff. My point is the movie introduces them as ghouls, as companies of Kylo ("my knights and I...") and we get a glimpse of their own ships and a battle sequence towards the end. What else do you want? 1 hour of Knights of Ren lightsaber combat? Go watch some comics or read some books. The focus of The Rise of Skywalker isn't the KOR, but Rey, Palpatine,etc.

I want to point out some lines from your texts that are very insteresting. Firstly, additional material WILL change that. I think most fans agree that the TCW show has made the prequels retroactively, at least a little bit more enjoyable. I can say that. I really am not a fan of the prequels, specially Ep1 and Ep2, have never been, but to me Ahsoka's arc and the expansion of lore brought by media like the Bad Batch, which introduced more concepts to the whole era, have greatly improved our viewing of the prequels. It seems they are now part of a bigger plan, of something greater and more interconnected. Seeing a character like Maul in TCW and Rebels makes us view him a little different not just when watching TPM, but whenever we think of him. My point is that newer material can improve the sequels, in this case the Knights of Ren, I'm sure Lucasfilm could pull something like that someday, why not

Secondly, I never said "just don't complain and accept everything". I actually despise most of the sequels, lmao, and as i said, i am a critic of the prequels. I explain my pont above. Some while ago I read "The Rise of Kylo Ren" and it's a pretty good comic run, for what i remember, which introduces the knights and their backstory. No it doesnt change TROS, it might not be a big deal, but it improves their lore and all that. Also there are novels which present the backstory of Rey's parents, Exegol, Luke and Lando's adventure. These little pieces of media might help some, definetely not all of us, understand better and maybe appreciate the messy and rushed content of the sequel trilogy.

And no, again, I am NOT asking anyone to consume content blindly or and just wait so things get good. You putting words in my mouth. In facnt, additional content might makes things even worse. I hated Obi Wan Kenobi because it didnt bring anything good and, in my view, ruined Kenobi and Vader's encounter in Ep4, apart from having him leave Tatooine during his watch on Luke. That's one example of a disappointment I had.

 

It won't, because it won't retroactively make it so the ST was written with that.

Then I think there's no real point to telling people to not be negative about something, if that's not what you're saying.

Using the PT isn't an argument for this.

 

Let me correct myself: it MIGHT change that. People might like the changes, some might hate it, idk, people have different tastes. Some poeple love how TCW dives into Kenobi-Anakin relationship because, for them, it makes their battle in ROTS much more intense and meaningful. I am excited about recent developments in shows like Mandalorian that have dealt with the politics of new republic and the rise of the First Order. If you think the movies NEED to make sense on themselves, fine, that's great and I think it makes sense from a storytelling perspective. But new material can improve the lore.

Also again stop being so negative i mean stop acting like "tHe SEquEls rUiNeD STar wArs foREVers".They didnt. We have plenty of good post-ST star wars content. And you can be critic of aaaall of that without being overly negative. I hope you get my point here.

 

You seem to be not regarding what I said. It won't change the movies. I said before it may sooth some's emotions on it. But it won't make it so it was written with that. Just like the TCW didn't actually change anything about how the PT was written.

The post you replied to before didn't say that and neither did I, and you didn't say what you're saying here before, so why don't you stop telling people to stop being negative?

 

Yeah it might sooth some's emotions. This is exaclty what I've been saying. You're agreeing with me lol. And obviously it wont make it so it was written like that, lmao. And disney/LF ain't retconning the sequels, remaking or rebooting them so soon, my friend.

I said you can be critic without being overly negative about star wars in general nowadays. I think the readers are getting my point pretty well.

Yeah but wookiepedie seems to imply that Kylo is the master of the Knights of Ren, not just a regular Ren. Kylo doesn't seem to submit to the nihilistic belief the knights have. He seems to be their commander only. However I could be wrong, but this is just what I understand from reading about canon. Wookiepedie doesnt say "Kylo is supreme leader, dark side user AND knight of ren...", it says he is, specifically, the MASTER of that group. But again i might be mistaken.

 

'Ren' is a title that is associated with the group's leader that personifies their creed and beliefs, so there's only ever one 'Ren' at a time, and everyone else are his knights. However, since 'Ren' is also the group's ideology, which I'll admit is probably just an excuse for another dark-sider capable of wielding a lightsaber to take over the group IMO, then even the leader is just a knight to the creed. Unless there's an attempt to recontextualize Kylo as "just going with the flow" or "just following orders" during the ST, this may not apply to him since it's stated in the Crimson Reign comics that the Knights of Ren don't have ambitions of their own, and seemingly just take on contracted work for whoever.

 

I get that some people happily accept anything thrown at them but lets just clarify that we're talking about the KOR here and not generalising like you are and you're still skirting around the issue that the KOR are handled poorly in the ST. Its flimsy and they are just thrown in for either aesthetics or to please people in some way.

You're totally exaggerating it with comments about wanting 1hr exposition because you know the ST does not do a good job with the KOR, maybe they were cut, maybe they originally had a bigger role, I don't know. But I was just suggesting they could have been a bigger part of the films to make them better, maybe even more integral to what Kylo is up to in the films, rather a cool looking bunch of guys in suits thrown in to the last film randomly. If you think that a line like 'my knights and I' is enough then thats great but you do realise there are probably hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of people who watch the films who will never go and buy a book or comic? The EU market of books and comics is absolutely nowhere near as big as you may think it is in relation to cinema goers. They can throw in all the easter eggs they want in relation to books and comics, thats fine, but they shouldn't be forcing people to go and buy those things for something to make sense in a film and after all the KOR showing up suddenly in ROS is a big deal.

Also the concept of the Sith which you use as an example probably doesn't really warrant you having to have read supplementary material because its covered in TPM. And by the way the original films never relied on supplementary material that you had to go and read or watch for something to make sense or to be clarified. The EU was born from the OT and was there to enrich the universe as something you could read alongside if you wanted to, its aimed at die hards. Yet these days it seems like its fine to to say "its ok, it'll be explained in some random comic that hardly anyone will buy". Thats a cop out and is lazy writing IMO and that applies to the KOR in the ST.

However nowadays I get that they should be tying material in to the TV series because they are more accessible.