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ST THE LAST JEDI mirroring (specifically AOTC/ESB/TLJ)

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by HevyDevy, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. mariel_rose

    mariel_rose Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2003
    I had a thought while scrolling through this awesome thread. Anakin killed Obi-Wan in the first movie ANH, Kylo killed Han in TFA. Both of them were fathers to their boys. Obi-Wan's death didn't really mean anything that I could see to Anakin aka Vader. Ben Kylo on the other hand was real emotional to it in TLJ.

    The kicker to this was when Anakin's mom died, he started to the dark side, when Ben Kylo's mom died, that help push him into the light side.

    Also I noticed that Cait had Red then White or White and then Red. Aka mirroring the 2nd battle movie of the first two sagas. I thought it was amusing. That and the two colors turn into pink if you mix them. LOL.

    I really am enjoying this thread. It's a great glimpse into the ties of the OT and the PT which I didn't see much of for the PT until now.
     
  2. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011

    Thanks! I was hoping it would be a good thread for TLJ fans.
    Yes, there are more possible links in Ep8 to the PT than I thought until I compiled this stuff.

    I noticed Ben's mom dying and Anakin's mom dying had the opposite effect on the characters too.
    Also there is fire for Anakin and Shmi yet water for Kylo/Ben and Leia. I wonder if they had that in mind.
    And another user noticed that the raging swell around the DS2 ruins has calmed to still water after Leia dies, for Ben and Han's conversation.






    Capture and attempted executions (AOTC / ROTJ / TLJ)

    Disobeyed orders lead to good guys failing at an attempted task, and being captured, in AOTC and TLJ.

    Anakin disobeys Mace using Padme's loophole. Finn, Rose and Poe do their mission behind Admiral Holdo's back.
    Poe - "This plan is on a need to know basis. And she (Holdo) doesn't!"

    Padme: "He gave you strict orders to protect me. And I'm going to help Obi-Wan. If you want to protect me, you'll just have to come along."
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Finn: "If I can get you into that room..."
    [​IMG]
    Rose: "I can shut the tracker down!"
    [​IMG]





    Capture (AOTC/ROTJ/TLJ):
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Phasma: "FN-2187. So good to have you back."[​IMG]


    AOTC -
    Gunray wants Padme dead (Dooku is behind the assassination attempts on Padme, which he is doing to get the Trade Federation to join the Separatists).
    The Geonosians attempt to execute Padme, Anakin and Obi-Wan for espionage (Padme and Anakin are trialed on Geonosis in a deleted scene).

    Gunray has a grudge against Padme for messing up his plans in TPM.

    ROTJ -
    Jabba tries to execute Luke, Han and Chewie.

    Jabba has a beef with Han regarding old business and refuses to negotiate with Luke for Han’s release, leading to Jabba's own death.

    TLJ -
    Phasma and Hux capture Finn and Rose, who fail in their attempt to shut down the First Order's hyperspace tracker.
    Phasma orders the two executed.

    Phasma and Hux has a grudge against Finn because he rejected the First Order, and helped the Resistance.



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]












    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    AOTC - Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan break themselves out, then Mace and the Jedi arrive to help.

    ROTJ - Luke had a plan, escapes capture and ends Jabba's crime syndicate.

    TLJ - Holdo’s lightspeed ram saves Finn and Rose at the last moment. Finn kills Phasma after regaining consciousness.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
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  3. DarthWolvo23

    DarthWolvo23 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Love these parallels
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  4. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Tracking and hyperspace storylines (AOTC / ESB / TLJ)

    AOTC –
    Obi-Wan tracks Jango and Boba through hyperspace with a homing beacon Obi-Wan throws on Jango’s ship, after they fight hand-to-hand on Kamino.
    After a space fight, Obi-Wan powers-down and hides on an asteroid, appearing to Jango to have been destroyed by a missile.
    [​IMG]
    ESB –
    Boba tracks Han and Leia. The Millennium Falcon hyperdrive needs repair. They travel at sub-light speed to Bespin to get help from an old friend, Lando.
    Earlier Han powered down and hid on the back of Needa's Star Destroyer, and then floated away with the SD’s dumped garbage.
    [​IMG]
    It would have worked, except Boba Fett turns out to be the only person that isn’t fooled – Obi-Wan has used this trick on him and his father years earlier.
    [​IMG]

    TLJ – Finn and Rose travel to Canto Bight on a mission to help the Resistance escape from the First Order, who have been chasing the Resistance fleet through hyperspace.
    [​IMG]
    The First Order is using active tracking, which they need to shut down with help from a person on Canto Bight. They miss the intended code-breaker, but after some hesitation, recruit DJ instead.


    ESB
    Han: “Well, if they follow standard Imperial procedure they’ll dump their garbage before they go to lightspeed. Then we just float away...”
    Leia “... with the rest of the garbage.”
    TLJ
    DJ: “What have you got in terms of a deposit?”
    Finn: “Are you kidding? Look at us.”






    ESB
    "Captain; the ship no longer appears on our scopes!"
    Needa: “Impossible! No ship that small has a cloaking device.”
    Han escapes the Empire fleet but is tracked.
    TLJ
    DJ cloaks their approach to the Supremacy.
    Also; They are caught, and DJ betrays the information that the Resistance is fleeing on cloaked transports.






    AOTC –
    There is clear tension between Jango and Obi-Wan when they are introduced to each other. Setting up their imminent fight on the Kamino landing pad.
    [​IMG]
    Jango turns out to be a bad guy and working as both a template for the Clone Army (who ultimately turn out to be used for evil), and as a hired assassin for Dooku.

    ESB -
    On reuniting, Lando faked tension between him and Han, as a joke.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    But Lando ultimately betrays them and turns out to have been pressured into making a deal with The Empire by Vader. He then redeems himself, turning out to be good, by helping everyone (minus Han) escape.

    TLJ -
    DJ seems suspicious...
    [​IMG]
    ...but appears to come through for Finn and Rose as a replacement code-breaker to get them onto the Supremacy and into the tracker room. They are caught and DJ sells them out, making a deal dooming the Resistance fleet, to save his own skin. He turns out to have no moral philosophy besides joining whoever best serves him. As he hinted to Finn earlier; “Don’t Join”.






    AOTC
    Jocasta Nu: “I’m sorry but it appears the system you are searching for doesn’t exist.”
    ...
    Obi-Wan: “There it is R4, right where it should be... our missing planet of Kamino.”
    [​IMG]
    (This all ultimately backfires when the Clones turn on the Jedi in ROTS.)

    ESB
    Han: “Wait here is something; Lando!”
    Leia: “Lando system?”
    Han: “Lando’s not a system, he’s a man. Lando Calrissian. Gambler, card player, scoundrel – you’d like him.”
    Leia: ‘Thanks.”
    [​IMG]
    (This backfires when the Empire beats Han to Bespin and Lando betrays them.)

    TLJ
    Finn: "You know this town? Canto Bight?”
    Rose: “From stories. It’s a terrible place filled with the worst people in the galaxy.”
    Finn: "Great."
    [​IMG]
    (Several subversions later this all ultimately fails when Finn, Rose and DJ are captured on the Supremacy and DJ sells them out.)




    ESB / TLJ
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    ESB
    Leia: “This bucket of bolts is never gonna get us past that blockade!"
    TLJ
    DJ: “Lets see who owns this gorgeous hunk.”

    Both ESB and TLJ (particularly TLJ) seem to have a theme implied – financial superiority rarely correlates with moral superiority.
    The Millenium Falcon is really a metaphor for the Rebels, being a true underdog.

    Where the ship DJ steals on Canto Bight is flashy and expensive but was owned by a person who was an arms dealer for the First Order (and interestingly the Resistance as well).

    Rose’s description of Canto Bight also plays into a subversion – Finn assumes “worst people on the planet” meant lowlife criminals, but it is actually a posh society whose ugliness is hidden beneath the sheen.
    This also contrasts Obi-Wan’s ANH line - “Mos Eisley. You will never find a more retched hive of scum and villainy.”

    Both locations are villainous - in different ways.

    Similarly, bounty hunters work for whoever pays the highest.
    AOTC -
    Jango works for Kamino and Dooku in AOTC.
    Also the Kaminoans are implied as somewhat greedy - “Depends on how good your manners are, and how big your pocketbook is.”
    ESB -
    Boba Fett: “What if he doesn’t survive. He is worth a lot to me.”
    Boba works for Vader.
    TLJ -
    DJ appears to work for the good guys, but when they are captured he is bought out by Hux and the First Order.






    Finally, the reoccurring use of the design of Boba's ship The Slave 1.
    AOTC
    [​IMG]
    ESB
    [​IMG]

    TLJ - The Slave 1? With all the references it surely is going to make an appearance?[​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Subverted. It's a clothes iron :p
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    The mirror is actually that Finn, Rose, and DJ are using Imperial disguises, like Han and Luke in ANH. (I had to mention this... [face_blush] )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  5. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
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  6. mariel_rose

    mariel_rose Jedi Grand Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Is there a thread connecting TFA with the prequel trilogy? I like how the dialogue keeps being similar. I am glad that you mentioned the R2 and 3-PO scene shot in TLJ, that was my one of my complaints...no consistent end scenes in the sequels vs the OT and the PT. Then I saw that and it made me happy. I love those two.
     
    HevyDevy likes this.
  7. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Hah, cool.

    Yeah the droid mirroring happened a lot in the original six.
    With R2 starting with Padme and going to Anakin. And 3P0 starting with Anakin and going to Padme.

    Then both go to Leia, then both to Luke.

    They really are the narrators in a lot of ways.
    And Skywalker family heirlooms.




    https://boards.theforce.net/threads/tfa-mirrors-thread.50039980/

    I made this a while back.
    Keep in mind I wasn't fully aware of where the trilogy was heading, so I got some things wrong sometimes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  8. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    First drama (AOTC / ESB / TLJ)

    AOTC/TLJ - R2 on Padme's fighter, BB8 on Poe's fighter.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]




    AOTC - Typho: "I guess I was wrong. There was no danger at all."
    [​IMG]
    ESB - Luke: "What's the matter girl? You smell something?"
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    [​IMG] [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    (Explanations: AOTC - Assassination bombing aimed at Padme kills her decoy. ESB - Wampa attacks Luke. TLJ - Three of four Resistance bombers are destroyed.)







    Unmaskings -
    (Luke before attack)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    (Padme after attack)
    [​IMG]
    (Paige after lost bombers)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]





    ESB - Luke in Wampa cave closes his eyes to focus on pulling his lightsaber to himself to escape.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    TLJ - Paige closes her eyes to focus on knocking the bombing remote down to her.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]




    Wampa almost gets Luke first / Paige drops the bombs just in time before sacrificing herself.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  9. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    AOTC / ESB / TLJ - Raining at discrete locations
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]




    AOTC / TLJ - Duel in the rain
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    [​IMG] [​IMG]



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ESB - Luke: "I can be a Jedi! I'm ready... Ben, tell him I'm ready! *hits head*
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    TLJ - Luke: "Close your eyes. Now, reach out."
    [​IMG]
    *reaches out literally*
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ESB / TLJ - Luke and Holdo being inventive with steam attacks.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  10. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Addendum to "First Drama" motif (AOTC / ESB / TLJ)
    AOTC
    [​IMG]
    ESB
    [​IMG]
    TLJ - Resistance Base destroyed (fits better)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
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  11. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I posted these elsewhere but they fit here if anyone hasn't read them.


    Dooku and Snoke






















     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  12. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I definitely thought it mirrored ROTJ, esp at the end. Probably too much.
     
  13. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Yeah the throne room parallels were a little less interesting to me than all the perhaps less obvious "middle of trilogy" type stuff.

    Rian Johnson referenced the other films more than it first seemed I think.

    I prefer JJ's movies but I think RJ was actually being sincere in claiming to like the PT.
    It is baked into his Ep8 if you look for it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
  14. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Don't want to take credit for this one...



    It is within TLJ itself but is pretty cool I thought.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  15. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    TPM
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ESB (chased by Ties)
    [​IMG]
    TLJ (chased by Ties)
    [​IMG]


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ESB / TLJ - Contrast of space slugs stomach and crystal caverns, both for MF to lose Ties.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ESB - R2 mistakes power socket for computer terminal
    [​IMG]
    TLJ - BB8 can't stop electric "leaks" so uses his own head :p
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ESB - Bad guy's ship destroyed, commander sees it through holo-communication
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    TLJ - Good guy's ship destroyed, commander sees it through holo-communication
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  16. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I noticed more related to the light side / dark side areas on Ach-To (in the first post of this thread):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Both scenes involve Rey looking to the dark side area for answers - "That place was trying to show me something." "It offered you something you wanted... and you didn't even try to stop yourself."

    In the first scene, she mentally ventures into the cave, and the water psychically flows off her like the reverse of it tipping onto her. In the second scene, she is sucked into the cave and falls downwards into that water.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]





    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG] [​IMG]




    Both scenes end with Rey feeling rejected and alone.
    [​IMG]
    Luke: "I've seen this kind of raw strength only once before. It didn't scare me enough before... it does now!"

    [​IMG]
    Rey: "I thought I would find answers here. I was wrong. I'd never felt so alone."


    Rian Johnson seems to have included a fair amount of yin and yang elements regarding the force in TLJ, and regarding Rey's and Kylo's duality.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  17. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Luke, Yoda, and Rey (1)

    There are a lot of contrasts between Yoda as a mentor in ESB and Luke as a mentor in TLJ.
    ESB
    Yoda fakes Luke out by at first pretending to be an insane swamp creature. Testing Luke’s patience. Yoda was most likely planning to train Luke eventually anyway.[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Luke: "Don't do that!'
    [​IMG]
    TLJ
    Luke trolls Rey with seemingly no intent of officially training her as a new Jedi.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]





    ESB
    Yoda messes with Luke’s gear and Luke’s food rations to test his patience. He will train Luke.
    [​IMG]
    TLJ
    Luke messes with Rey as he goes about his daily routine, drinking milk from sea cows and fishing.
    [​IMG]
    He is trying to get rid of her.






    ESB - Following Yoda to his hut. Yoda: "Come, come!"
    [​IMG]
    TLJ - Following Luke around island.
    [​IMG]
    Rey senses the Jedi tree and Luke notices she is no longer following him.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    ESB - "R2... stay and watch over the camp." (role-reversal)
    [​IMG]









    ESB - Luke: “It’s like something out of a dream.”
    [​IMG]
    TLJ - Luke: "You've seen this place. You've seen this island." Rey: “...only in dreams.”
    [​IMG]







    ESB
    Luke: “Really strange place to find a Jedi Master... still there's something familiar about this place.”
    TLJ
    Luke: “You think I came to the most unfindable place in the galaxy for no reason at all?”


    ESB
    Luke (to R2): “If you’re saying coming here was a bad idea, I’m starting to agree with you.”
    TLJ
    Rey (to Luke): “He (Chewie) says you’re coming with us.”








    ESB
    Yoda: “I am wondering... why are you here?”
    Luke: “I’m looking for someone.”
    Yoda: “Looking? Found someone you have I would say, hmm?”
    TLJ
    Luke: “Chewie what are you doing here?!?”
    ...
    Luke: “Why are you here, Rey from nowhere?”
    Rey: “The Resistance sent me. The First Order has become unstoppable...
    Luke: “Why are YOU here?”
    Rey: “Something inside me has always been there... and now it's awake. And I'm afraid. I don't know what it is, or what to do with it. And I need help.”
    ESB
    Yoda: “Why wish you become Jedi?”
    Luke: “Well, mostly because of my father I guess.”
    Yoda: "Ah, father! Powerful Jedi was he!" (contrasts "Who are you?")

    Yoda: “Much anger in him. Like his father.”
    [​IMG]
    Luke: “I’ve seen this raw strength only once before... in Ben Solo. It didn’t scare me enough before. It does now!”
    [​IMG]
    Both master's hesitation to train Luke/Rey turn out to be related to Luke's/Rey's dark lineage.



    ESB
    Luke: “I’m not afraid.”
    [​IMG]
    Yoda: “You will be.”
    [​IMG]
    TLJ
    Rey: "And now it’s awake, and I’m afraid.”
    [​IMG]
    Luke: "You need a teacher."
    [​IMG]


    ESB
    Luke: “I don’t even know what I’m doing here, we’re wasting our time!”
    Yoda: “I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience.”
    TLJ
    Rey: “The First Order will control all the major systems within weeks.”
    ...
    Luke: “You’re wasting your time.”

    Reverse-role for Luke again... but Luke, unlike Yoda, was not planning on the Jedi religion continuing past himself.

    ESB
    Yoda: “I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience.”
    TLJ
    Luke: “You need a teacher. I can’t teach you.”







    ESB
    Luke: “I’m looking for someone.”
    Yoda: “Looking? Found someone you have I would say, hmm?”
    (Double-meaning because Yoda is the specific "someone" Luke is looking for.)
    TLJ
    Yoda: “That library contains nothing the girl Rey does not already possess.”
    (Double-meaning because Rey literally took the books already.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  18. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Luke, Yoda, and Rey (2)


    ESB
    Yoda: “Great warrior, hmm. Wars not make one great!”
    TLJ
    Luke: “What did you think was gonna happen here? Do you think I’m going to just walk out with a lasersword and face down the entire First Order?”

    Luke eventually does just that - by passively projecting himself to Crait at the Resistance's most crucial moment.
    It kind of both validates Yoda's comment on Jedi passivity, and echoes Luke's attitude before he changed his mind.
    ESB
    Yoda: "A Jedi must have the deepest commitment. The most serious mind."
    [​IMG]
    ...
    Luke:
    “I won’t fail you. I’m not afraid.”
    TLJ
    Rey: “And you didn’t fail Kylo. Kylo failed you. I won’t.”
    [​IMG]









    ESB -
    Yoda: “Will he finish what he begins?”
    TLJ -
    Luke: “I will teach you the ways of the Jedi... and why they have to end.”

    ESB –
    Luke: “And I will return. I promise.”
    TLJ –
    Luke: “I’m not coming back. Nothing will make me change my mind.”

    Luke for much of the film has gone back on his word that he would truly complete his Jedi path.
    The contrast is intended. I don't fully agree with the direction they took with the character, but there is some depth to it regardless.







    ESB
    Emperor: “The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi.”
    TFA
    Snoke: “If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise.”
    TLJ
    Luke: “It is time for the Jedi... to end.”
    ...
    Snoke: “I did not realise Skywalker would be so wise! We will give him and the Jedi Order the death he desires!”
    ...
    Luke: "And I will not be the last Jedi."









    TPM
    Qui-Gon: “Feel, don’t think. Trust your instincts.”
    AOTC
    Yoda: “Reach out. Sense the force around you. Use your feelings you must.”
    ANH
    Obi-Wan: “Reach out with your feelings!”
    ESB
    Yoda: “You must feel the force around you!” ... “The stone... feel it.”
    TFA
    Maz: “Close your eyes. Feel it. The light... it’s always been there. It will guide you.”
    TLJ
    Luke: “Just... breathe. Reach out with your feelings!”

    [​IMG] [​IMG]










    Luke loses concentration when his X-wing sinks in the swamp.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Yoda: “Control, control, you must learn control.”

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]








    ESB
    Yoda: “A Jedi must use the force only for knowledge and defense, never for attack!”
    Luke: "But tell me why I mustn't..."
    Yoda: "No, there is no why!"
    ...
    Yoda: "Anger, aggression, quick to join you in a fight.”
    ...
    Luke: "Is the dark side stronger?"
    Yoda: "No... quicker, easier, more seductive.”

    Rey in TLJ has been communicating with Kylo through the force. She hides it from Luke (making it seem somewhat like a forbidden romance).
    Kylo represents Rey's temptation to the dark. Luke is rejecting her and refusing to train her yet Kylo is listening.

    Luke finds out, and orders her to leave the island.
    Rey attacks Luke from behind (a pretty dark side action) when she has been told by Kylo that Luke tried to kill him in his sleep (a point of view truth).
    Luke turns out right when her premonition that Ben Solo will turn back doesn't work out for her. But there is still conflict in Kylo.










    AOTC
    Yoda: "Young Skywalker is in pain, terrible pain!”
    TLJ
    Yoda: “Young Skywalker... missed you have I.”






    AOTC
    Dooku (seeing Yoda): “Master Yoda! You have interfered with our affairs for the last time.”
    ROTS
    Sidious (seeing Yoda): “Master Yoda! You survived.”
    TLJ
    Luke (seeing Yoda): “Master Yoda. I'm ending it all.”
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
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  19. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Luke, Yoda, and Rey (final)

    ESB - Luke is leaving training to help his friends.
    Yoda: “You must not go!”
    [​IMG]
    TLJ - Rey is leaving to try and redeem Ben Solo.
    Luke: “Rey, don’t do this!”
    [​IMG]
    ESB
    Yoda: “If you leave now, help them you could... but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered.”
    TLJ
    (After Rey leaves) Luke: “I’m ending it all. The tree, the texts, the Jedi. I’m gonna burn it down.”








    ESB
    Yoda: “Through the force, things you will see. The past, the future. Old friends long gone.”
    TLJ
    (Luke has reconnected with the force)
    Yoda: “Ah, Skywalker. Missed you have I.”









    ESB
    Yoda: “This one a long time have I watched. Always looking to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was! Hmph! What he was doing! Hmm!”
    TLJ
    Yoda: “Skywalker... still looking to the horizon. Never here! Now! The need in front of your nose! Hmm?”






    ESB
    Obi-Wan: “That boy is our last hope.” Yoda: “No, there is another.”
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    TLJ (moments later)
    Yoda: “Lost Ben Solo, you did. Lose Rey, we must not."






    ROTJ
    Yoda: “Pass on what you have learned.”
    TLJ
    Yoda: “Heeded my words not did you. Pass on what you have learned. Strength mastery, hmm. But weakness, folly, failure... yes failure. The greatest teacher failure is."
    TROS
    Luke convinces Rey to continue as a Jedi, having learnt from his failure and teaching Rey to do the same.
    Luke: “I was wrong.” ... “Fear kept me on this island.” ... “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi.”


    ESB
    Yoda: “Told you I did... reckless is he. Now, matters are worse.”
    TLJ
    Yoda: “We are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.”
    [​IMG] [​IMG]















    [​IMG]
    ESB -
    Luke: “Master, moving stones around is one thing but this is completely different!”
    Yoda: "No, only different in your mind!"
    Luke tries to raise the X-Wing and fails.
    [​IMG]

    TLJ - Luke: "The force isn't a power you have. It’s not about lifting rocks. It's the energy between all things.”
    ...
    Rey: “Lifting rocks...”
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]







    The torch is passed to Rey.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  20. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Kylo and Vader



    Firstly; I thought the duality in these moments was hard to miss:
    Anakin, meditating looking at a cloud yin and yang (AOTC)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Vader long after turning, looking out over the Empire he helped create (ESB)
    [​IMG]

    Rey, taking in "more green than she had ever seen" early in her journey
    [​IMG]

    Inversely Kylo, looking out over the First Order doing its worst
    [​IMG]


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Both dark-destined Skywalkers (Anakin/Ben) are encouraged to be arrogant and power-seeking by Palpatine – Palpatine as a mentor and advisor to Anakin while hiding his own true nature and intent, and Palpatine perhaps even more sinisterly as disembodied voices in young Ben Solo’s head.


    AOTC
    Anakin: “Don’t get me wrong. Obi-Wan is a great mentor. As wise as master Yoda, and as powerful as master Windu."

    "...In some ways... a lot of ways... I’m really ahead of him.”

    Rise of Kylo Ren #2
    Ben Solo: “He’s an amazing teacher (Luke), very strong. I’ve learned so much from him... but he never seems to want me to use any of it.”
    Snoke (voice): “Your master thinks of you as a child. Someday he will realise your true capabilities.”



    ROTS (script)
    Anakin: “What?!? How can you do this? It’s outrageous. It’s unfair! I’m more powerful than any of you. How can you be on the Council and not be a master?”

    Rise of Kylo Ren #1
    Kylo: “I’m stronger than all three of you put together. Skywalker made us act like we were all equal, but you all know the truth. I was the Temple’s prize student."
    "...And when it mattered I was stronger than Luke Skywalker.”




    AOTC
    Anakin: “Why else would we be assigned to protect her if not to find the killer? ... It’s overkill master, investigation is implied in our mandate.”
    ...
    Palpatine: “You don’t need guidance Anakin. In time you will learn to trust your feelings. Then you will be invincible.”

    Rise of Kylo Ren #2
    Ben Solo: "All this way to find some old junk master Luke will lock away in his Temple and never use.”
    Snoke (voice): “The Jedi have always been good at that. They consider themselves masters of the force, in every sense.”


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    AOTC
    Padme: “The problem is the people don’t always agree.”
    Anakin: “Then they should be made to.”
    Padme: “By whom? Who is gonna make them?”
    Anakin: “I don’t know...”
    Padme: “You?”
    Anakin: “Of course not me. Someone wise.”

    TFA
    Han: “That’s what Snoke wants you to believe. But it's not true. My son is alive.”
    Kylo: “No... the Supreme Leader is wise!”



    Vader, as he turns, quickly changes to wanting to overthrow Palpatine – “someone wise” – and rule himself alongside Padme.
    Deciding – ironically, considering the meadow conversation in AOTC – that he is wise and powerful enough to impose his views on the galaxy by force.

    The Empire / First Order sees the democratic Old/New Republic as “a regime that acquiesces to disorder.”

    Kylo succeeds (where Vader couldn’t) and overthrows Snoke both to save Rey from Snoke, and yet ultimately to consolidate more power for himself.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    AOTC - Yoda: “Well done commander. Bring me a ship.” (Yoda has become an enforcer?)
    [​IMG]
    ESB - Vader: “Bring my shuttle!”
    [​IMG]
    TLJ - Kylo: “Prepare my ship!”
    [​IMG]


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ESB
    Emperor: “There is a great disturbance in the force.”
    Vader: “I have felt it.”
    Emperor: “The young Rebel who destroyed the Death Star. I have no doubt that this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.”
    TLJ
    Snoke: “I warned my apprentice that as his power grew his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker, I assumed. Wrongly.”



    ESB
    Yoda: “Strong is Vader. Bind what you have learned. Save you it can!”
    TLJ
    Rey: “There’s no light left in Kylo Ren. He’s only getting stronger.”



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    @Daxon101 posted this gif
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    Obi-Wan: “I have failed you Anakin, I have failed you.”
    TLJ
    Luke: “I’ve failed you Ben! I’m sorry.”




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    AOTC
    Obi-Wan: “And you will learn your place young one.”
    ...
    Obi-Wan: “Why do I get the feeling you are going to be the death of me?”

    TLJ
    Snoke: “Alas, you are no Vader. You’re just a child... in a mask.”

    Vader and Kylo kill these two masters.


    Also:
    Obi-Wan: “If you face Vader you must do it alone. I cannot intervene.”
    Inversely; Luke projects himself to Crait to “intervene” in TLJ, and also lends his strength to Rey’s to help her take out Palpatine in TROS.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    Middle of PT and ST respectively -
    Both Anakin’s first major step towards the dark side, and Ben Solo’s turn (shown by flashback) happen in huts.

    - Anakin’s fear brought him to the hut to save Shmi. She dies at the worst possible moment and Anakin - fuelled by hate - wipes out the whole Tusken village.
    - Luke goes to Ben’s quarters and reads his mind in his sleep (out of fear of Ben’s dark potential). What he sees makes him consider killing Ben right there. He composes himself and changes his mind, but it is too late and Ben has seen his intent. The scene involves mutual fear. Ben proceeds to destroy Luke’s Temple in anger and hate, for the perceived betrayal.






    Inversion between Anakin and Kylo (again middle of PT and ST respectively) -
    - Anakin losing his mother in the middle film is the first stage of his fall to the dark side, as he thirsts for the power to prevent things like this happening again.
    - Kylo, during the attack on the Resistance fleet, choosing not to fire on the bridge where his mother commands the opposing side from, is the first sign of possible redemption for Ben.

    The next film of each trilogy involves:
    - Anakin falling to save Padme through the dark side and paradoxically bringing about her death because of his own greed.
    - Kylo letting go of hate, then ultimately sacrificing his own life to bring Rey back.



    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Luke and Vader's last interaction in ESB
    [​IMG]
    Rey and Kylo's last interaction in TLJ
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]





    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
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  21. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Some random TLJ observations



    ESB
    Droid: “Sir, it will take quite a while to evacuate the T-47s.”
    Luke: “Well, forget the heavy equipment, there’s plenty of time to get the smaller modules on the transports.”
    ....
    Rieekan: “I don’t think we can protect two transports at a time.”
    Leia: “It’s risky but we can’t hold out much longer. We have no choice.”

    TLJ
    “We’re not clear yet. There’s still thirty pallets of cannon shells in C-Bunker.”
    Connix: “Forget the munitions. There’s no time! Just get everyone on the transports!”


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    [​IMG] [​IMG]



    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    AOTC
    Jocasta Nu: “If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist!”
    ESB
    Luke: “Now all I gotta do is find this Yoda... if he even exists.”

    Obi-Wan: "There it is R4. Right where it should be. Our missing planet of Kamino.”
    [​IMG]
    Luke: “Yep, that’s it. Dagobah.”
    [​IMG]
    Poe: “What is that?” Commander D'Acy: “The mineral planet Crait.”
    [​IMG]


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    ESB
    R2: *Beeps*
    Luke: “If you’re saying coming here was a bad idea... I’m starting to agree with you.”

    TLJ
    BB8: (“I’ve got a bad feeling about this.”)
    ...
    Leia: “Just for the record, commander Dameron; I’m with the droid on this one.”



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ESB - Minauks chewing on Millenium Falcon parts
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    TLJ - Porgs chewing on Millenium Falcon
    [​IMG]

    (Han and Leia going out to check the ship)
    [​IMG]
    (I just liked the identical location here. Seems relevant.)
    [​IMG]

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Imperials show Leia to Luke, to lure him to Vader
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Snoke lures Rey to Kylo, by showing them to each other (force connection)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    TLJ
    Rey: “Leia sent me here with hope. If she was wrong she deserves to know why.”

    ANH
    Luke and Leia are the “new hope”.
    Their actions assure that the Rebels win in the OT, and their later actions help assure the Resistance’s victory in TROS.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  22. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Miscellaneous



    Role reversal for Leia (ANH / TLJ)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Leia's ship is broken into
    [​IMG]
    Poe fears Holdo is breaking into the bridge after he mutinies against her
    [​IMG]

    Leia shot with a blaster set on stun (captured for treason)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Leia shoots Poe with a blaster set on stun (for not following Holdo's orders)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    AOTC
    Padme: “All mentors have a way of seeing more of our faults than we would like. It’s the only way we grow.”
    Anakin: *sighs* “I know.”

    TPM
    Qui-Gon (to Obi-Wan): “Don’t centre on your anxieties Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs.”

    AOTC
    Obi-Wan (to Anakin): “And you will learn your place young one.”
    ...
    Obi-Wan: “Patience! Use the force. Think!”

    Sio Bibble: “What is your suggestion, master Jedi?”
    Padme: “Oh, Anakin’s not a Jedi yet, he’s still a padawan learner. But I was thinking...”
    Anakin: “Hold on a minute...”

    ESB
    Yoda (to Luke): “Not try. Do or do not. There is no try.”

    TLJ
    Leia (to Poe): “There are things that can’t be solved by jumping in an X-wing and blowing something up! I need you to learn that.”

    Rose (to Finn): “My sister just died! Protecting the fleet. And you were running away.”

    Snoke (to Kylo): “...And the deed split you to the bone. You were unbalanced... bested by a girl who had never held a lightsaber... you FAILED!”

    Luke (to Rey): “That place offered you something you needed. And you didn’t even try to stop yourself!”

    Holdo (to Poe): “Our plan, captain? Not commander, right? Wasn’t it Leia’s last official act to demote you... for your dreadnaught plan... where we lost our entire bombing fleet?”



    Palpatine does the opposite of the more sincere mentors of the saga; by enabling Anakin with perhaps unearned praise, and cultivating Anakin’s weaknesses into dark side strengths.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    I mentioned this earlier... When Ben turns he collapses the hut on Luke
    Luke: "Ben, NO!"
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ... and when Luke fears Rey is going down the same path Luke echoes this moment himself by destroying their hut outwards.
    Luke: "STOP!"
    [​IMG]



    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Dialogue links

    ROTJ
    Luke: “Greetings, exalted one. I am Luke Skywalker, Jedi Knight, and friend to captain Solo.”
    TLJ
    “Attention! This is Commander Poe Dameron of the Republic fleet. I have an urgent communique for General Hux.”

    Both (bolded) are titles used traditionally where the affiliated institutions referenced have actually been destroyed by the Empire and First Order.
    It is a noble formality reflecting a longing for a better time.


    ----------------------------------------


    ESB
    “Lord Vader demands an update on the pursuit.”
    Needa: “I will accept full responsibility for losing them, and apologise to Lord Vader.”
    *Shortly after, Vader kills him*
    TLJ
    “Supreme Leader Snoke is making contact from his ship.”
    Hux: “(Feigning confidence) Ah. Good. I’ll... take it in my chambers.”
    *Snoke then slams him into the ground*


    -----------------------------------------

    ESB
    Imperial officer: “Bounty hunters. We don’t need that scum!”
    TLJ
    Hux: “The thief was telling the truth! Will wonders never cease.”


    -----------------------------------------

    Failed mind-tricks (ROTJ / TLJ):
    Luke: “You will bring Captain Solo and the Wookie to me.”
    Jabba: "Ho ho. Your mind powers won't work on me boy."

    Kylo: “You will bring Luke Skywalker to me.”
    *Rey is unphased. Kylo gives up*

    -----------------------------------------


    ROTS
    Supreme Chancellor Palpatine: “Kill him. Kill him now!”
    Anakin: “I shouldn’t...”
    Palpatine: “Do it!”
    TLJ
    Supreme Leader Kylo Ren: “I want every gun we have to fire on that man.
    Do it!”
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
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  23. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    This is one I missed on the (ESB Millenium Falcon hyperdrive) / (TLJ lightspeed tracking) post earlier in the thread.

    Artoo/DJ opening doors.
    C-3PO: “Artoo, we’re not interested in the hyperdrive on the Millennium Falcon!”
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Finn: "It's now or never!"
    *uneasy pause*
    [​IMG]
    DJ: "...Now."
    [​IMG]

    C3PO: “Just open the door you stupid lump!” .... C3PO: “Never doubted you for a second! Wonderful!”
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    This is all subverted.... where in ESB the good guys escape with Lando's help, in TLJ the heroes are instantly captured then DJ betrays them.
    R2 reactivates the fixed hyperdrive that was switched of by the Empire / The First Order's hyperspace tracker isn't shut down.




    Also; there is some similarity in Obi-Wan successfully shutting down the tractor beam holding the MF in ANH.
    - The heroes escape but are being tracked to the Yavin Rebel Base.
    - Finn and Rose fail to eliminate the tracker targeting their fleet.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]




    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





    Luke and Leia (ROTJ / TLJ)
    Luke's ROTJ entrance
    [​IMG]
    Luke's TLJ entrance
    [​IMG]




    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    The music in the TLJ scene is based on the score for this ROTJ scene.

    Luke leaving the Rebels and his friends to face Vader and the Emperor, and Luke returning to help Leia and the Resistance.
    Both stories involve a lot of uncertainty about what might happen. But also a sense of finality.

    ROTJ
    Leia: “But why must you confront him.”
    Luke: “There is good in him, I've felt it. ... I can turn him back... to the good side. I have to try.”

    TLJ
    Luke: “I came to face him Leia. But I cannot save him.”
    Leia: “I held out hope for so long. But I know my son is gone.”
    Luke: “No one is ever really gone.”

    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    There is a lot more to it than I have mentioned, but those are some moments that stand out to me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
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  24. DarthWolvo23

    DarthWolvo23 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Need more of these

    TROS thread incomong?

    @HevyDevy
     
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  25. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Appreciate your interest man.

    I will definitely get on a TROS thread in the next month or so. I've thought of some stuff.

    For this thread, I was trying to get my head around what manner to post 2-5-8 romance arcs mirrors.
    I gave up but I will give it a shot soon.